Marc Gander - The Consumer Survival Handbook


A 220 page introduction to all things consumer related by our own BankFodder.

Includes energy companies, mobile phone providers, retailers, banks, insurance companies,debt collection agencies, reclaim companies, secondhand car sellers, cowboy garages, cowboy builders and all the rest who put their own profits before you.

£6.99



Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

£19.99 + £1.50 (P&P)


+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 21 to 36 of 36
  1. #21
    Basic Account Holder
    Do you record your calls?
    You'll regret it if you don't.
    mttm Novitiate



    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter
    Cagger since : Jul 2006
    Posts : 3 (0.00 post per day)

    Default Re: Dealer refuses refund after failed repair attempts

    Quote Originally Posted by techie09 View Post
    The car was driven from the dealer, it looked as the car was cleaned and engine compartment plastic covers polished up ! he was very keen to replace the tyres before we collected it.
    Good stuff, I think you stand an excellent chance of arguing that this wasn't a true sales 'n' repairs sale, and that the dealer's trying it on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spudzulu View Post
    This highlights something that I have noticed that is being used more and more in trade ads

    . Dealers are stating "Sold as spares & repairs" or even "even though it starts we have no knowledge of the condition and advise it is taken away on a trailer.
    ..Sold spares & repairsr" .

    Does this then absolve the dealer of any responsibility under the CPA?

    Sorry if I've hijacked the thread.
    If you're selling cars to the general public, advertised on consumer websites, valeted, repaired, taxed, and suitable to drive away on the day, you're going to have a hard time arguing that the words "spares and repairs" or "sold as seen" are anything but trying to avoid your responsibilities to consumers.

    Instead, the traders use these magic words because writing "I don't want to honour the CRAicon" would harm sales, and writing them helps the traders bully people out of their rights.

    Even the idea that there are legions of consumers desperate to buy _entire cars_ for spare parts is an insult to the entire industry.

    Quote Originally Posted by oddjobbob View Post
    Yes, I think it probably does.

    These spares / repairs things do have a value of some kind and it would be absurd to say thy cannot be sold.

    Spares / repairs = trouble, every time.
    No-one's saying that cars can't be sold for spares/repairs/as seen. The problem comes when you dress a car up as anything but that. It shouldn't be that difficult either; tell people why the car's not a runner, get customers to trailer it away, and don't invest money in making them better!


  2. #22
    Basic Account Holder
    Do you record your calls?
    You'll regret it if you don't.
    Spudzulu Novitiate Spudzulu Novitiate



    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter
    Cagger since : Aug 2017
    Posts : 45 (0.18 post per day)

    Default Re: Dealer refuses refund after failed repair attempts

    Great reply, thanks.

    I've seen a few cars that look in good nick etc, however they have the caveat "not tested, spares & repairs" I suppose it should act more as a indicator of the level of after sales care to be expected.

    Thanks again.


  3. #23
    Basic Account Holder
    Do you record your calls?
    You'll regret it if you don't.
    oddjobbob Novitiate oddjobbob Novitiate



    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter
    Cagger since : Nov 2011
    Posts : 714 (0.30 post per day)

    Default Re: Dealer refuses refund after failed repair attempts

    Good stuff, I think you stand an excellent chance of arguing that this wasn't a true sales 'n' repairs sale, and that the dealer's trying it on.

    No, I don't, the ad specifically states spares / repairs twice and does not mention if it drives ok or if anything works. They got what was described in the ad.

    If you're selling cars to the general public, advertised on consumer websites, valeted, repaired, taxed, and suitable to drive away on the day, you're going to have a hard time arguing that the words "spares and repairs" or "sold as seen" are anything but trying to avoid your responsibilities to consumers.

    Instead, the traders use these magic words because writing "I don't want to honour the CRAicon" would harm sales, and writing them helps the traders bully people out of their rights.

    Even the idea that there are legions of consumers desperate to buy _entire cars_ for spare parts is an insult to the entire industry.

    Spares / repairs is fine and involves no comeback, as long as the ad is absolutely clear. Sold as seen is a big no no. Consumers see only what they want to see, which in this case was a bright looking modern car for 1000. I do agree slightly sticky ground allowing it to be driven away, but the ad is as solid as a rock, it couldn't be plainer.

    No-one's saying that cars can't be sold for spares/repairs/as seen. The problem comes when you dress a car up as anything but that. It shouldn't be that difficult either; tell people why the car's not a runner, get customers to trailer it away, and don't invest money in making them better!

    This one wasn't dressed up though...yes its been cleaned, but the ad could not be clearer. 'Sold for spares or repairs on behalf of a customer' And why not clean it? People buy with their eyes and not their brain sometimes!


  4. #24
    Basic Account Holder
    Do you record your calls?
    You'll regret it if you don't.
    oddjobbob Novitiate oddjobbob Novitiate



    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter
    Cagger since : Nov 2011
    Posts : 714 (0.30 post per day)

    Default Re: Dealer refuses refund after failed repair attempts

    Quote Originally Posted by Spudzulu View Post
    Great reply, thanks.

    I've seen a few cars that look in good nick etc, however they have the caveat "not tested, spares & repairs" I suppose it should act more as a indicator of the level of after sales care to be expected.

    Thanks again.
    Not the after sales care....there will be none, it's sold for spares! AVOID!


  5. #25
    Basic Account Holder
    Do you record your calls?
    You'll regret it if you don't.
    mttm Novitiate



    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter
    Cagger since : Jul 2006
    Posts : 3 (0.00 post per day)

    Default Re: Dealer refuses refund after failed repair attempts

    Quote Originally Posted by oddjobbob View Post
    Good stuff, I think you stand an excellent chance of arguing that this wasn't a true sales 'n' repairs sale, and that the dealer's trying it on.

    No, I don't, the ad specifically states spares / repairs twice and does not mention if it drives ok or if anything works. They got what was described in the ad.

    If you're selling cars to the general public, advertised on consumer websites, valeted, repaired, taxed, and suitable to drive away on the day, you're going to have a hard time arguing that the words "spares and repairs" or "sold as seen" are anything but trying to avoid your responsibilities to consumers.

    Instead, the traders use these magic words because writing "I don't want to honour the CRAicon" would harm sales, and writing them helps the traders bully people out of their rights.

    Even the idea that there are legions of consumers desperate to buy _entire cars_ for spare parts is an insult to the entire industry.

    Spares / repairs is fine and involves no comeback, as long as the ad is absolutely clear. Sold as seen is a big no no. Consumers see only what they want to see, which in this case was a bright looking modern car for 1000. I do agree slightly sticky ground allowing it to be driven away, but the ad is as solid as a rock, it couldn't be plainer.

    No-one's saying that cars can't be sold for spares/repairs/as seen. The problem comes when you dress a car up as anything but that. It shouldn't be that difficult either; tell people why the car's not a runner, get customers to trailer it away, and don't invest money in making them better!

    This one wasn't dressed up though...yes its been cleaned, but the ad could not be clearer. 'Sold for spares or repairs on behalf of a customer' And why not clean it? People buy with their eyes and not their brain sometimes!
    You're not the OP, and writing in the first person is not helpful.

    The whole reason that consumer legislation exists is because of stuff like you've written here. Thankfully we no longer live in that world.


  6. #26
    Basic Account Holder
    Do you record your calls?
    You'll regret it if you don't.
    oddjobbob Novitiate oddjobbob Novitiate



    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter
    Cagger since : Nov 2011
    Posts : 714 (0.30 post per day)

    Default Re: Dealer refuses refund after failed repair attempts

    Quote Originally Posted by mttm View Post
    You're not the OP, and writing in the first person is not helpful.

    The whole reason that consumer legislation exists is because of stuff like you've written here. Thankfully we no longer live in that world.
    You are spouting nonsense, I've no idea what you mean about writing in the first person.

    Let's be clear. The OP bought exactly what the advert said it was - a car suitable for spares or repairs. As a dealer you cannot sell a car 'sold as seen', it is illegal to do so.

    Consumer legislation exists, quite rightly, to protect the consumer: but you cannot protect a consumer against themselves, the OP bought the car thinking it would be ok, but it wasn't, and was expressly described as being for spares or repairs.

    As for your comment that we no longer live in those times, the very fact that the op has come here demonstrates that we do.

    Why on earth any dealer would get involved with stuff like this is beyond me....if it's not good enough to retail, send it to auction.

    I am NOT defending the dealer or maligning the op, simply telling it how it is.


  7. #27
    Classic Account Holder
    Help the CAG!!
    Make a contribution
    heliosuk Highly informative heliosuk Highly informative heliosuk Highly informative heliosuk Highly informative heliosuk Highly informative heliosuk Highly informative heliosuk Highly informative



    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter
    Cagger since : Jun 2009
    Posts : 2,465 (0.76 post per day)

    Default Re: Dealer refuses refund after failed repair attempts

    The seller could argue that the fact that he put on two tyres to sweeten the deal in order to sell as spares and repairs. I think the OP has a very weak case with this. When the car is advertised as spares or repair it means exactly this. They cannot control what subsequently happens to it.


  8. #28
    Basic Account Holder
    Do you record your calls?
    You'll regret it if you don't.
    techie09 Novitiate



    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter
    Cagger since : Nov 2009
    Posts : 50 (0.02 post per day)

    Default Re: Dealer refuses refund after failed repair attempts

    Quote Originally Posted by oddjobbob View Post
    You are spouting nonsense, I've no idea what you mean about writing in the first person.

    Let's be clear. The OP bought exactly what the advert said it was - a car suitable for spares or repairs. As a dealer you cannot sell a car 'sold as seen', it is illegal to do so.

    Consumer legislation exists, quite rightly, to protect the consumer: but you cannot protect a consumer against themselves, the OP bought the car thinking it would be ok, but it wasn't, and was expressly described as being for spares or repairs.

    As for your comment that we no longer live in those times, the very fact that the op has come here demonstrates that we do.

    Why on earth any dealer would get involved with stuff like this is beyond me....if it's not good enough to retail, send it to auction.

    I am NOT defending the dealer or maligning the op, simply telling it how it is.




    Peugeot 207 1.4 petrol 5 Door hatchback

    Full Service History

    MOT UNTIL 16TH AUGUST 2018 no advisories

    Cambelt and water pump have been changed in last 500 miles

    Sold as seen on behalf of customer.


    What do you mean As a dealer you cannot sell a car 'sold as seen', it is illegal to do so. The advert states this on the botton Sold as seen on behalf of customer.


  9. #29
    Basic Account Holder
    Do you record your calls?
    You'll regret it if you don't.
    oddjobbob Novitiate oddjobbob Novitiate



    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter
    Cagger since : Nov 2011
    Posts : 714 (0.30 post per day)

    Default Re: Dealer refuses refund after failed repair attempts

    I know....thy should never use that phrase! 'Sold as seen' carries no weight whatsoever from a car dealer. Illegal was perhaps too strong...just meaningless.

    However, 'spares or repairs' is perfectly ok.

    Presumably 'sold as seen 'implies that it might well be a good car, have a look, make your own mind up, whereas 'spares or repairs' implies it is definitely not a good car.

    The ad said:
    year
    make mileage
    mot
    spares or repairs

    The ad did NOT say
    drives well
    excellent condition
    starts first time
    excellent bodywork
    reliable
    etc.

    Indeed, the condition of the car is not implied in any way.

    The OP bought what was advertised I'm afraid


  10. #30
    Royalties Account Holder ericsbrother Authoritative ericsbrother Authoritative ericsbrother Authoritative ericsbrother Authoritative ericsbrother Authoritative ericsbrother Authoritative ericsbrother Authoritative ericsbrother Authoritative ericsbrother Authoritative ericsbrother Authoritative ericsbrother Authoritative



    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter
    Cagger since : Nov 2012
    Posts : 13,741 (6.95 post per day)

    Default Re: Dealer refuses refund after failed repair attempts

    Now selling and buying at auction is very different to buying from a dealer.

    What will be considered in this transaction is what was said at the time about the MOT, putting new tyres on etc but also where it was advertised and how much the vehicle was compared to one that isnt advertised as spares/repairs.
    So, sold in trade mag or specialist site- then not aimed at selling to the public.

    My opinion is that this car was priced and being marketed to consumers and as such their waffle about selling on behalf of customer spares/repairs is disingenuous so as you can see I disagree with oddjobbob on this one.

    The dealer shouldnt have offered agency to it and refused to sell it to a random punter knowing that it wasnt his to bargain over so again that calls the other statements made by the dealer into question.


  11. #31
    Site Team dx100uk Highly authoritative dx100uk Highly authoritative dx100uk Highly authoritative dx100uk Highly authoritative dx100uk Highly authoritative dx100uk Highly authoritative dx100uk Highly authoritative dx100uk Highly authoritative dx100uk Highly authoritative dx100uk Highly authoritative dx100uk Highly authoritative dx100uk's Avatar



    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter
    Cagger since : Dec 2006
    Posts : 113,665 (27.49 post per day)

    Default Re: Dealer refuses refund after failed repair attempts

    if I remember correctly on watchdog or one of those programs there was a case identical to this
    and it was adjudged that the dealer cannot state 'spares or repair' whenever selling to jo public
    as and excuse for not refunding.

    PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS
    Click Here To Make A Donation
    If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread
    my views are my own...seek legal advice if necessary
    NEVER EVER - act on a private message asking you to visit another website, make contact 'off list' or by phone alert the siteteam
    DX RIP Martin3030
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

  12. #32
    Basic Account Holder
    Do you record your calls?
    You'll regret it if you don't.
    oddjobbob Novitiate oddjobbob Novitiate



    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter
    Cagger since : Nov 2011
    Posts : 714 (0.30 post per day)

    Default Re: Dealer refuses refund after failed repair attempts

    Who knows? You might be right, for the op's sake let's hope you are.

    Why on earth any reputable dealer would want to be involved in acar like this I've no idea.

    But I can foresee a battle....the ad could not be clearer that it's spares or repairs and there's nothing wrong with offering acar of this nature to the public. Also as stated the ad did not contain any 'puff' merely a statement of facts about the car.

    we shall see!


  13. #33
    Basic Account Holder
    Do you record your calls?
    You'll regret it if you don't.
    oddjobbob Novitiate oddjobbob Novitiate



    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter
    Cagger since : Nov 2011
    Posts : 714 (0.30 post per day)

    Default Re: Dealer refuses refund after failed repair attempts

    Quote Originally Posted by dx100uk View Post
    if I remember correctly on watchdog or one of those programs there was a case identical to this
    and it was adjudged that the dealer cannot state 'spares or repair' whenever selling to jo public
    as and excuse for not refunding.
    I vaguely recall it...but I think the ad did not state s/r, the dealer put it on the invoice at the point of sale.

    que sera and all that....


  14. #34
    Site Team dx100uk Highly authoritative dx100uk Highly authoritative dx100uk Highly authoritative dx100uk Highly authoritative dx100uk Highly authoritative dx100uk Highly authoritative dx100uk Highly authoritative dx100uk Highly authoritative dx100uk Highly authoritative dx100uk Highly authoritative dx100uk Highly authoritative dx100uk's Avatar



    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter
    Cagger since : Dec 2006
    Posts : 113,665 (27.49 post per day)

    Default Re: Dealer refuses refund after failed repair attempts

    yes I think that's it
    and he;'d done it numerous times before and had been reprimanded for it already.

    PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS
    Click Here To Make A Donation
    If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread
    my views are my own...seek legal advice if necessary
    NEVER EVER - act on a private message asking you to visit another website, make contact 'off list' or by phone alert the siteteam
    DX RIP Martin3030
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0


Reclaim the Right Ltd. - reg.05783665 in the UK reg. office:- 923 Finchley Road London NW11 7PE
We use cookies to personalise content and ads and to provide social media features. We also share information about your use of our site with our advertising and analytics partners. See details