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    • they cant 'take away' anything, what ever makes you believe that?  dx  
    • The text on the N1SDT Claim Form 1.The claim is for breaching the terms and conditions set on private land. 2. The defendant's vehicle, NumberPlate, was identified in the Leeds Bradford Airport Roadways on the 28/07/2023 in breach of the advertised terms and conditions; namely Stopping in a zone where stopping is prohibited 3.At all material times the Defendant was the registered keeper and/or driver. 4. The terms and conditions upon  entering private land were clearly displayed at the entrance and in prominent locations 5. The sign was the offer and the act of entering private land was the acceptance of the offer hereby entering into a contract by conduct. 6.The signs specifically detail the terms and conditions and the consequences of failure to comply,  namely a parking charge notice will be issued, and the Defendant has failed to settle the outstanding liability. 7.The claimant seeks the recovery of the parking charge notice, contractual costs and interest.   This is what I am thinking of for the wording of my defence The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and are generic in nature which fails to comply with CPR 16.4. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. 1. Paragraph 1 is denied. It is denied that the Defendant ever entered into a contract to breach any terms and conditions of the stated private land. 2. Paragraph 2 and 4 are denied. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was only contracted to provide car park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. 3. It is admitted that Defendant is the recorded keeper of the vehicle. 4.  Paragraph 6 is denied the claimant has yet to evidence that their contract with the landowner supersedes  Leeds Bradford airport byelaws. Further it is denied that the Claimant’s signage is capable of creating a legally binding contract. 5. Paragraph 7 is denied, there are no contractual costs and interest cannot be accrued on a speculative charge.   I'm not sure whether point 4 is correct as I think this side road is not covered by byelaws? Any other suggestions/corrections would be appreciated.
    • Dear EVRi parcelnet LTD t/a evri   evri parcelnet isnt a thing also you say defendant's response which is a bit of a weird format.   Something like   Dear EVRi, Claim no xxxx In your defence you said you could not access tracking. Please see attached receipt and label Regards
    • Welcome to the Forum I have moved your topic to the appropriate forum  Residential and Commercial lettings/Freehold issues Please continue to post here.   Andy
    • Please provide advice on the following situation: I rented out my property to four students for 16 months until March 2024. Initially, the property was in very good condition, but now it needs extensive renovation. This includes redoing the bathroom, replacing the kitchen, removing wallpaper, and redecorating due to significant mould growth. The tenants also left their furniture on the grass, which is owned by the local authority. As a landlord, I've met all legal requirements. It seems the damage was caused by poor ventilation—windows were always closed, and heating wasn't used. There was also a bathroom leak fixed by reapplying silicone. I tried to claim insurance, but it was denied, citing tenant behaviour as the cause by looking at the photos, which isn't covered. The deposit barely covers the repair costs, or else I'll have to pursue money claims, which I've never done before and am unsure about its legal complications or costs. Any thoughts on this?
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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Builder has issued a Letter before Claim over a disputed Build Cost


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I had builder coming in to do extension work

 

Cut long story to short

we agreed on price

they came and worked 8 hours in 2 days and one of them asked me for some payment

i paid £500 and they didn't come for 2 days

 

turned up on 3rd day and made an excuse that they cant find the required doorframe

i called them

they promised to come after a week as one is sick and other one on holiday

 

When the week finished i ask them what are you guys up to

they start making excuses like they needed a skip so they could clear rubbish in the garden

i told them that's not the priority, do the interior work and by the the time you finish i would have ordered the skip as it take upto a week to order

 

They went funny

they are not coming until i get the skip which made me angry and told them not to come

i asked them to give me my money back and i refused to let them take their tools they have left at my property

It escalated to them accusing me of robbing them of their own tools

 

they turned up at my property

they called the police

police told them they will not get involved which they did not like

 

After that incident they saw me at one of the guys building, i didn't know they were working in there

they saw me and got physical and snached my phone

 

i reported this to the police

they asked me to leave the site and see them in the police station for an interview which i did

i was told by police they will not get involved in this as it is civil matter but the police officer said that he will call the builders and warn them that physical behavior is not acceptable if they acted like again the police will get involved .

 

After this i have received the letter below from the builder which i ignored them .

Today i have police visiting me asking for the tools and telling me that i cant keep their tools as it is theft of tools which really got me angry

i said ok fine you get my money back from them and take the tools

 

they said this is a civil matter

well then if you take tools and wont give them back to them that is the leverage

 

i got on to them to get my money back so you are more welcome to take them but take they wont take responsibility for the money back

 

they then said are you happy for us to hold the tools until you guys resolve the matter

i said fine as long you promise not to give them back its fine

 

they looked at the tools and kind of backed down holding on the tools saying there is too many

they admitted they only came because they were told by the builder that i sold the tool

i said look they all here they're no good to me

 

they then took pictures of the tools to show them and ask me not sell them as that is not legal and will get back to me and they left .

 

What is the best way i can deal with them now

 

thanks

letter prior to court action.pdf

Edited by honeybee13
Paras
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Regardless of what happened, you cannot keep the tools as leverage or hostage.

You take the builder to court.

 

From reading the letter he has sent you its a labour only contract.

Your to source everything else.

 

If what the builder is saying is true, and its not uncommon from answers and a timeline they have given, from any other builder.

For example they didn't want to leave your house unsecured when they couldn't source a door frame.

That's reasonable.

 

From your story and their letter I'm of the feeling you'll lose

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Thread moved to the appropriate forum...please continue to post here to your thread.

 

 

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For example they didn't want to leave your house unsecured when they couldn't source a door frame. That's reasonable.

 

From your story and their letter I'm of the feeling you'll lose

and i went and bought the frame from wicks and got someone else to fit it for me .

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Did you have a contract or any sort of written agreement with the builders please?

 

HB

nope and they agreed with me £1600 to do the job and in this letter they just put figure of £2200 which is wrong

 

they only came 2 days turing up @ 11 and leaving @ 3pm

 

all of the hours on the letter are lies

they only put 10 plaster boards on in 2 days within 8 hours which i was being reasonable and told oke there was 2 of them £150 for the main guy and the helper £100 for 8 hours you spend £250 plus £50 as a good faith keep £300 and return me £200

 

As you see from the letter they Put the £1600 to £2200 to justify their time spent and also asking me that i owe them more

Edited by honeybee13
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doc converted to PDF in 1st post.

 

can you try and read your posts first tariq before sending as some of the english you've used makes it difficult to correctly understand the story.

I've done my best with post 1 for you.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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thread title updated to better reflect your issue

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Firstly, I think that although it sounds a bit extreme, I think that you are entitled to keep their tools in the circumstances and I certainly don't see any basis for saying that it is theft. However, you are responsible for keeping them in good condition and safe. If I were you I would take pictures of them – although you should done that immediately to show the condition and to show what you have. Be prepared eventually for someone to say that the tools are damaged or that they are not all there. That would certainly give you a problem.

 

  • I understand that you contracted to have work done. You say it was for £1600. They say it was £2200.
  • You don't say what the work was or how long it was going to take. Are you able to tell us how long it was going to take?
  • After two days of work they asked for a payment on account and you paid them £500. This is a very normal arrangement.
  • However, they then failed to turn up and do any more work for two days.
  • On the third day they turned up but did not do any work because they said they needed certain materials.
  • After that you telephoned them – presumably to see where they were – and they told you that one of them is ill and the other one is on holiday.
  • A dispute developed and they refused to continue work and you then told them not to come back and that you wanted the return of your money.
  • You also said that you would not allow them to take back their tools unless they had returned your money.
  • There have then been several comings and goings and the police have been involved but by and large nothing has changed the situation.
  • A little while later, you met one of them and he snatched your telephone from you. – Has this been returned to you and is it in good condition?

 

They are now threatening to sue you.

 

They say that they have emailed you a written quotation. Is that correct? Does it detail the work to be done? Does it say that the cost of the work is £1600 or does it say that it is £2200?

 

I think you need to list out the work that you commissioned from them and then I think you need to indicate what parts of that work have been done and what remains undone.

I think it would also be worth getting an idea of how long, in principle, work like this would take to be done if it was being done on a daily basis.

 

Under normal circumstances you would be required to pay them for as much work as has been done. However, if it is possible to say that no part of the work has actually been finished – for instance a wall has not been fully plastered, then you probably wouldn't be required to pay for that. On the other hand, if all the walls are plastered but they have not been painted, then it is probably possible to say that the plastering is a task on its own which has been completed and the painting is a separate task. In that case, you would be liable to pay for the completed task and it would probably be unreasonable for you to withhold payment for the whole job.

It's all a bit involved and it's all about something called "severable contracts" where you can identify the various jobs which make up the entire contract and you can reasonably give a value to each part which has been fulfilled.

 

So for instance, if the job entails interior decorating and exterior decorating and they only complete the interior part, then it would be unreasonable for anyone to refuse to pay for the whole job. The client have at least to pay for the completed part of the contract – the interior decorating.

I feel I'm getting a bit over involved here and not explaining myself very well. I hope you get the picture.

 

What we need here is to understand what the entire contract was for, and what has been completed. When we know that we can then figure out what you should reasonably pay for in order to bring the whole arrangement between yourself and the builders to an end. It's clear that the confidence between you is so badly damaged that it will not be possible for them to continue the work for you – and I expect that you wouldn't want that.

 

I think also you need to get an assessment as to the value of the tools. You have paid them £500. If they have done less than £500 worth of work then clearly they should reimburse you and it might be reasonable to hang onto the tools or some of them until that money is forthcoming. On the other hand if it turns out that the value of the work they have done is more than £500 then you should return the tools and pay them the extra money.

 

One thing you should understand is that if it turns out that you owe them money and yet you are hanging onto the tools, then they could reasonably bring an action against you in trespass to their property.

 

Withholding access to the property is a good move, but you need to calculate things very carefully if you want to avoid trouble in the end.

 

Once again, list out the work which has been commissioned. List out the work that has been done. You will also eventually need to get an independent assessment of the cost of completing the contracted work by somebody else and also the value of the work that has been done.

 

You're going to need to do this very quickly.

This could exceptionally be a case which would be suitable for mediation.

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both you and the builder keep banking on about the time they spent there, that is immaterial and unless you said the work must be completed by such a date it is for them to decide how they fit it in with other jobs they are running at the time.

 

You need to respond to this letter by stating what you agreed at the time,

why they have failed to keep their side of the contract and what you believe is the current situation regarding the alleged debt.

 

for example, if they fitted the door frame badly did you give them a chance to redo the work?

 

If their work is below an acceptable standard you can invoice them for your additional costs in remedying their mistakes.

 

Also find out if they belong to a trade association like the Federation of Master Builders as they have free mediation and arbitration schemes.

Edited by dx100uk
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Sorry, but I disagree with this. I think it is very clear that there will always be an implied term that the work must be completed within a reasonable time. Furthermore, if there are delays and breaks in the work being done then I think that there is also an implied term that the customer is kept appraised of the situation and understands which days there will be no work and when the work will be resumed.

 

It is not possible for a builder or any other service provider to treat a contract is completely open-ended in terms of the time for completion simply because it has never been discussed or agreed.

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the pertinent thing here is reasonable.

 

i wouldnt suggest that any agreement is open ended but the OP wasnt employing them on a day rate so whether they arrived late or early is immaterial to actualy getting the job done in a timely manner.

For example, you wouldnt fit a door into new brickwork the same day nor lay tiles on a new concrete floor because they need time to set properly. The time taken to do a part of the job has no bearing on thie waiting time for such things.

 

that doesnt excuse rudeness or bullying by the builders though and clearly they have failed to communicate properly with the customer both at the outset and later on as the work and its problems developed

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By and large I think you're wrong.

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