Marc Gander - The Consumer Survival Handbook


A 220 page introduction to all things consumer related by our own BankFodder.

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Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

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  1. #1
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    Default Dismissed after unfair disciplinary and discrimination grievance

    I received a written warning at work without any hearing or evidence or disciplinary meeting... just the warning based on what some colleagues said. I raised a grievance as I felt this warning discriminated against me as I work in an all male team, I felt the complaint wouldn't have been raised if I was a male on the team. I also feel that the process would have been dealt with differently if I was a male on the team.

    They then dismissed me 2 weeks later after I submitted my written grievance.

    I'm trying to get an understanding of whether disciplinary action can actually be discriminatory or not?

    I've already put my claim into the tribunal.


  2. #2

    Default Re: Dismissed after unfair disciplinary and discrimination grievance

    Need to.know a lot more info in this.
    What was alledged
    What was the reasons for final dismissal
    Why do you feel if you were a male on the team it would of been treated differently


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Dismissed after unfair disciplinary and discrimination grievance

    The allegations on the warning - inappropriate conversation with a male colleague.
    The dismissal - poor team fit and poor performance (nothing had been said prior to this - the opposite in fact! Great team fit and great performance).

    In relation to the warning, the conversation I had with the colleague in my mind wasn't inappropriate and I think part of it he has misunderstood what I said (he thought I was asking him a sexual question or making a sexual statement) - which I wasn't at all. And given the discussions that go on within the team, I couldn't believe that I would be pulled up about that. I felt the way he recounted the conversation was incorrect but even if it had, it would still mean I was being held to a different standard to the guys.


  4. #4

    Default Re: Dismissed after unfair disciplinary and discrimination grievance

    You cant decide what is inappropriate. Only the other party can. Much like you cannot give offence only take offence.
    On the performance, I take it this is documented in some way as in an appraisal or is it just gossip or hear-say.
    On recounting a conversation.
    Its what they remember. You cannot say they recounted it wrong. Much as two people witnessing a crime will recount two different versions.

    What does it say in the company's disciplinary procedures?


  5. #5

    Default Re: Dismissed after unfair disciplinary and discrimination grievance

    Alas we would still need to know a lot more to offer any sort of opinion about this, ie what exactly was said, how long you have worked there etc. Any previous warnings?

    As above, different people will take offence to different things. By definition, something which might be said by a female colleague in a mainly male team might well be considered of a sexual nature because a male simply wouldn't make that sort of statement to another male. Disciplinary action in that context may well be justified without being discriminatory.

    Insofar as a Tribunal is concerned, can you evidence similar circumstances where the same has been said unpunished by a male colleague? To make any allegation of discrimination stick you will need a clear chain of evidence

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  6. #6
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    Default Re: Dismissed after unfair disciplinary and discrimination grievance

    Quote Originally Posted by sgtbush View Post
    You cant decide what is inappropriate. Only the other party can. Much like you cannot give offence only take offence.
    On the performance, I take it this is documented in some way as in an appraisal or is it just gossip or hear-say.

    What does it say in the company's disciplinary procedures?
    Nothing at all was documented and I wasn't aware there was any issue with my performance until I was dismissed. And I challenged this in writing.

    We don't have a disciplinary procedure. We don't have any policies or procedures.


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Dismissed after unfair disciplinary and discrimination grievance

    Quote Originally Posted by Sidewinder View Post
    Alas we would still need to know a lot more to offer any sort of opinion about this, ie what exactly was said, how long you have worked there etc. Any previous warnings?

    As above, different people will take offence to different things. By definition, something which might be said by a female colleague in a mainly male team might well be considered of a sexual nature because a male simply wouldn't make that sort of statement to another male. Disciplinary action in that context may well be justified without being discriminatory.

    Insofar as a Tribunal is concerned, can you evidence similar circumstances where the same has been said unpunished by a male colleague? To make any allegation of discrimination stick you will need a clear chain of evidence
    I worked there for just under a year when I was dismissed. There'd been no other warnings, no performance issues.

    I had asked him if his girlfriend was frisky like I was. Apparently. How he recounted the conversation isn't at all how I recall it.

    I guess it depends on what you recount as evidence. I've had discussions with my colleagues about some conversations and comments that I find unsavoury and I can list instances and witnesses to such conversations. But I don't have recordings or anything like that.


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Dismissed after unfair disciplinary and discrimination grievance

    In relation to disciplinary, I think I would have been much more open to that had it been done correctly. What I do take offence to is the fact that my colleague put his view forward and it was taken as fact. There was no investigation, nor even a conversation with me before they decided to proceed straight to issuing a written warning. The first I was aware of an issue was when I received the warning in my email.


  9. #9

    Default Re: Dismissed after unfair disciplinary and discrimination grievance

    I had asked him if his girlfriend was frisky like I was.

    Sounds like sexual harassment to me.
    If I said that to a female co worker id be hung drawn and quartered


  10. #10

    Default

    Firstly, they’ll say your dismissal was within a year, so is only actionable if you were dismissed due to a “protected characteristic”.
    It is likely they’ll claim you were dismissed for the reasons they stated, and these were independent of your gender.

    If your gambit to show they were discriminating based on gender, and this is demonstrated by the disciplinary, yet:
    Quote Originally Posted by username1984 View Post
    I had asked him if his girlfriend was frisky like I was.
    Inappropriate to ask a co-worker about how ‘frisky’ their partner is.
    Inappropriate to tell him you are / were ‘frisky’

    A disciplinary for this isn’t likely to be found unlawful or wrong. That behaviour just isn’t appropriate for almost any workplace.

    It may not be your recollection of events but are you saying that nothing along those lines was said at all?
    What IS your recollection of events?
    With hindsight : was the conversation entirely innocent / appropriate AND incapable of being taken the wrong way?


  11. #11

    Default Re: Dismissed after unfair disciplinary and discrimination grievance

    I had asked him if his girlfriend was frisky like I was.


    This is what the OP states they said.
    They are lucky that they wernt suspended immediately, frog marched to the door and then summery dismissed.
    What you said was totally inappropriate. Just because your a female does not mean you can say such things. If I said it to you, you would shout sexual harassment from the roof tops.
    Equality is for all, not just women.


  12. #12
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sgtbush View Post
    I had asked him if his girlfriend was frisky like I was.


    This is what the OP states they said.
    They are lucky that they wernt suspended immediately, frog marched to the door and then summery dismissed.
    What you said was totally inappropriate. Just because your a female does not mean you can say such things. If I said it to you, you would shout sexual harassment from the roof tops.
    Equality is for all, not just women.
    I didn’t say that - I said I said that. “Apparently”. That’s what he said I said.

    That is not what I said, I asked if she was frisky and hard to manage when she was drinking but I didn’t in any way allude to her sexual activity levels. I went on to say how I was a nightmare when I was drinking and how I wanted to dance all night.

    The conversation we were having was in no way a sexual one.


  13. #13

    Default Re: Dismissed after unfair disciplinary and discrimination grievance

    I asked if she was frisky and hard to manage when she was drinking


    Totally inappropriate conversation with a co worker on company time.
    Your implying that she has alcohol problems and does not know how to behave when in such a state.
    The one thing you need to learn at work is know your audience.


  14. #14
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sgtbush View Post
    I asked if she was frisky and hard to manage when she was drinking


    Totally inappropriate conversation with a co worker on company time.
    Your implying that she has alcohol problems and does not know how to behave when in such a state.
    I personally didn’t feel the conversation was inappropriate at all given the nature of conversations that does go on. However if he felt offended, I would have apologised as I’m not the type to offend anyone.

    However we weren’t on company time, we were out having a drink after work.


  15. #15

    Default Re: Dismissed after unfair disciplinary and discrimination grievance

    Most of the online dictionaries have the traditional meaning of frisky. However, the urban dictionary which sounds more modern day says this.

    frisky

    Although commonly used sexually... frisky can also imply a lifestyle. Someone who is frisky is apt to do anything, anywhere. Spontaneous and jolly in everything they do.

    "You're so frisky... I didn't know if you were going to get a drink from the bar or dance on it!"

    The other examples in the urban dictionary are more suggestive. This could have led to the misunderstanding.

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  16. #16

    Default Re: Dismissed after unfair disciplinary and discrimination grievance

    On company time/off company time- it matters not. They took offence at your comments.
    Personally I do not have co workers on my facebook/what's app or anything for such reasons. I also do not go to Christmas party's with co workers for the same reasons.


  17. #17
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    Default Re: Dismissed after unfair disciplinary and discrimination grievance

    Did it warrant a written warning?

    Is it fair that I received a warning based on his version of events alone? And the first I heard of it was being issued with the warning and no one asked me for my version of events?


  18. #18
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by honeybee13 View Post
    Most of the online dictionaries have the traditional meaning of frisky. However, the urban dictionary which sounds more modern day says this.

    frisky

    Although commonly used sexually... frisky can also imply a lifestyle. Someone who is frisky is apt to do anything, anywhere. Spontaneous and jolly in everything they do.

    "You're so frisky... I didn't know if you were going to get a drink from the bar or dance on it!"

    The other examples in the urban dictionary are more suggestive. This could have led to the misunderstanding.

    HB
    Thanks HB

    It’s a word I personally wouldn’t use for something sexual but it would have been so easy to clear the misunderstanding up. In my opinion anyway


  19. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by username1984 View Post
    Did it warrant a written warning?

    Is it fair that I received a warning based on his version of events alone? And the first I heard of it was being issued with the warning and no one asked me for my version of events?
    No, there should be an investigation which includes your version of events.
    However, events may have been confirmed by others : were there other witnesses who may have confirmed what was said?


  20. #20

    Default Re: Dismissed after unfair disciplinary and discrimination grievance

    This sounds like a small company way of dealing.
    How many employees are there?
    Is it a small business with a few employees?
    I know it's not justification to avoid correct procedures, but with less than a year service you are more or less stuffed, unless you can clearly prove discrimination.


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