Hi, looking for some advice please

I’ll keep it as brief as possible -

My car finance agreement has 3 months left on it, I am currently 3 months in arrears. I have asked to pay a reduced amount per month which will take the payments a few months over the expiry of the finance ageeement.

They have absolutely refused to consider any payment arrangements unless I complete I&E, I have refused to do this initialy as last time I provided the info, they decided that we could pay more than we were offering.

I have advised them that intend to apply for a time order. Their response was that unless I provide I&E they will issue default notice, termination notice and then repo the car. Thanks to this forum I am aware that it isn’t anywhere near as simple as that.

So I moved on from the CS department to Complaints. The rep there insisted once again that they cannot enter into a payment arrangement without I&E as they have to have this due to FCA rules. Funny that I can and had previously made a payment arrangement at a much higher amount (still takes me over the term of the agreement) and they didn’t need I&E to do that.

Agreed with complaints that they could send the I&E form over by email and I would have a look at it.

This is where perhaps it gets more interesting. The email I received from them doesn’t contain a form, it is a spreadsheet full of customers details!

I advised them of the error, they have asked me to destroy it, they have apologised profusely for the error but they still want me to send they my I&E details via email before they can help me.

I should also be noted that unfortunately the vehicle is fitted with a payment reminder device and is currently immobilised.

Can anyone give me any advice/suggestions as to where to go from here

Do not destroy the spreadsheet. Does it contain the contact details of the customers? How many people you talking about?

I'm very sceptical that the FCA requires that I&E forms be completed. I understand that you are doing this on the telephone. It's jolly good that you've been here since 2009 so that you are well aware of the need to record calls. Keep on recording them it's very important – especially when they trot out this kind of stuff.

In terms of your payments, you must not cease payments. If you can't afford the full payments then make the instalments that you say you can afford. The important thing is to show willing and to reduce the debt. Many people consider that if they get into a dispute like this then they start off by stopping the payments. This would be a big mistake.

Keep on making the payments – even if they try to refuse them – keep on making the payments. This is very important.

Please tell us more about their data breach. Which finance company are we talking about here?

Unfortunately I haven’t recorded any calls. Didn’t think I would have to as they have been quite amicable up to now.

I have the form safely. It includes Names, phone numbers, postcode and the reason why they rang the company. It is basically a call log of over 100 calls

Well I'm very disappointed that we have prepared a customer services guide and that you have been here since 2009 and you have never looked at it. I suppose that you now realise the importance of the advice we give. Of course you would never need to record calls while they were being amicable. It's when they move from amicable to nasty and challenging and thrusting and demanding – that's when you need to record your calls and you have to be ready for it in advance which means that you should always record your calls. You will regret it if you don't

Would you be prepared to send me a copy of the form by email to our admin email address? I think that the people whose data has been disclosed need to be informed about it.

I think also that the press might be interested and I may be able to arrange this.

You haven't told us which company we are dealing with here.

I can only apologise for not checking the Customer Service file. I haven't used the forum for quite a while and to be honest I thought that the info I had already gained would assist me to deal with this situation. With hindsight, yep I would have looked on here first. I wont be speaking to them via telephone again, if I can avoid it.

The company is The Car Finance Company.

I was hoping to use their error to my gain, rather selfishly I admit as to be honest if I was on this log I would be furious. I just want to be able to use my car and get rid of the finance on it.

At the moment I am filled with more than a little trepidation as to how to proceed.

You shouldn't be worried about speaking to them on the telephone – if you are recording the calls. In fact it can be extremely useful because they can say all sorts of silly things which they will regret later on.

I'm not sure what the rules are relating to car finance agreements but it seems to me that if you've only got three months left to go then they can have a lot of difficulty repossessing your vehicle. I expect somebody with more knowledge of this will be a long but in the meantime if you read around the forum I'm sure you will find lots of similar threads.

However, you should certainly keep on making payments at whatever instrument level you can afford. Personally I don't think it's unreasonable for them to ask for an income and expenditure sheet but once you have decided what you can reasonably afford then I don't see any point in being pushed into paying more than that and on that point you should certainly stand your ground. If the only reason that you don't want to let them have this information is because you are worried that they will then try to bully you into paying more, then simply refuse and tell them that they can start proceedings against you and you will let a judge decide.

Do not stop making payments under any circumstances. Tell them what level of payments you can afford and make sure you pay those instalments and that you don't change anything and you don't miss a payment. If that happens then they will come out to get you.

I suggest also that if they won't deal with you on that basis that you tell them that you are making a formal complaint and that you want the matter to go to the financial ombudsman. Tell them that you have fallen into hardship and they are refusing to treat you fairly in respect of this and you want an education from the FOS. This should also make them think and also make them delay a bit because they will be obliged to consider your case which will take up to 8 weeks and then allow you to refer to the ombudsman.

Please will you email me the list which they sent to you on our admin email address

Thanks for your advice.

I've done some reading (without logging in) and I will continue to read. I owe just over £1800 from an agreement which amounted to 12.5K in total. Yep total rip of interest rate.

I have refused the I&E so far as initially they wanted all the info over the phone, and yes they will insist that we can afford to pay more. Then once they emailed the call log, I was less than keen to given them anymore of my personal info

My concern over emailing the document is that the minute they discover that I have handed this over, they are very unlikely to want to make an arrangements with me what so ever.

My car is currently immobilised on my drive which makes my life very difficult indeed and the thought of it being sat there for the next 8 weeks or so whilst they argue with me about it is more than a nightmare

Can I ask what you intend to do with the list?

My husband suggested the press but I didn't think that such a small list would be on interest plus I don't really want my name in the papers

Assuming this is HP

If you fall behind with your payments on a hire purchase or conditional sale agreement, the creditor may be able to repossess the goods. Look at your agreement. There will be a box headed Repossession: your rights telling you how much you need to have paid to stop the creditor taking the goods back without a court order (or your consent). This should be one third of the total amount payable under the agreement.

If you have paid a third or more of the total amount payable, the goods become ‘protected goods’ and the creditor must go to court for an order for the goods to be returned unless you consent to the repossession. They cannot just come round and remove them (‘snatch them back’).

If a creditor ‘snatches back’ goods without a court order and without your consent where a third or more has been paid, you are entitled to a refund of all the money you have paid under the agreement.

Also, even if you have not paid more than a third of the total amount payable under the agreement, the creditor will need an order from the court, or your consent, to remove the goods from ‘any premises’ they are on.

‘Any premises’ is not defined but includes your garage or drive. If your car is parked on the road (and you have not paid a third) then it is at risk of being ‘snatched back’. The law is not clear about the recovery of a car from a car park.

https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/factsheets/Pages/hire-purchase-debt/hire-purchase-and-conditional-sale.aspx

Andy

Yes it's HP and yes I am well over any limits as to where they can just repo the car with ease.

Hence why I thought that they would be considerable more amenable to accepting my offer of payment. I understand that it takes the payment over the agreed finance term, but given the mither and costs involved in persuing me through the courts, I thought it would be easier for them to accept my offer without forcing income and expenditure details.

Purchase price of car was £7584.50

Interest payable £4969.50

Amount currently left to pay is £1824

I'm unsure whether to email them again re-iterating my offer of payments and refusal to provide I&E (given their data breach they would have to be mad to expect me to willingly provide the info), begin making the payments and just accept that my car will be sat imobbilised on the drive for the immediate future.

 

Can I ask what you intend to do with the list?

 

My husband suggested the press but I didn't think that such a small list would be on interest plus I don't really want my name in the papers

If you are prepared to let me have the list, first of all I can assure you that your name will be mentioned.

I intend to make a complaint to the information Commissioner and phone up two or three dozen of the people who appear on the list and let them know what has happened and suggest that they come here to this forum for advice and also they make their own individual complaints to the information Commissioner.

Then I have two or three press contacts who might be interested – but you are right, they may not be interested in such small list – but I have some good contacts and I'm happy to give it a try.

I can keep you informed by email as to what I have done and the reactions that I have received.

If I contacted the press, don't worry, I wouldn't give up your details.

I don't quite understand why your car would be immobilised. Anyway, I think you should be making the payments at the rate that you can afford – with an eye to the future so that you know that you can maintain that level of payments.

After that let them bring their own action if they want. As long as you are able to show that you are behaving responsibly and straightforwardly with them that you are doing the best that you can then I would expect that if they bothered to go to court, a judge would simply agree with what you are doing.

The important thing is to make a plan – tell them what the plan is – and stick to it

The vehicle is fitted with a payment reminder device

I don't pay what they want, they don't provide a code, the car is useless.

I have four children, one is Autistic, at the moment I face the Easter holidays without a car to take them anywhere. We do have another car, however he can not travel in it, due to the fact that he wont sit anywhere other than the front which is not practical in the other vehicle and he suffers from car sickness when stressed. I have told TCFC that I need the car due to children's medical conditions but they still will not do anything without me agreeing to giving them further info.

If you are prepared to let me have the list, first of all I can assure you that your name will be mentioned.

 

I intend to make a complaint to the information Commissioner and phone up two or three dozen of the people who appear on the list and let them know what has happened and suggest that they come here to this forum for advice and also they make their own individual complaints to the information Commissioner.

 

Then I have two or three press contacts who might be interested – but you are right, they may not be interested in such small list – but I have some good contacts and I'm happy to give it a try.

 

I can keep you informed by email as to what I have done and the reactions that I have received.

 

If I contacted the press, don't worry, I wouldn't give up your details.

This is my fear, yes I fully agree that this should be reported and the people on the list have a right to know BUT as soon as they start contacting TCFC, my own position with TCFC becomes incredibly difficult. I cant imagine that I will be there favourite person.

Also if they push this to a court hearing, how will this reflect on me with a judge?

I will have passed on sensitive information

Well it's up to you. I can tell you that the company wouldn't dream of referring to it before a judge in any event it's got nothing to do with anything. Complaining to the information can Commissioner is a highly responsible act of citizenship. Alerting some of the victims of this data breach is also a highly responsible act of community citizenship. Letting the press no is also a highly responsible act because we have no idea how many times this has happened with other people's data – because most people prefer not to get involved and decide not to do anything. That's why companies like this get away with it all the time.

This is an opportunity to allow some responsible action to be taken. It may only be a small data breach – but each individual victim is compromised by this and they deserve to know what has happened and to be given the opportunity to make their own complaint.

How would you feel if your data was circulated to somebody else? Would you be pleased to know about it?

I totally 100% agree with everything you have said and this is why I came to the forum with it as I knew that someone here could deal with it.

There is one particular entry on the log which really plays on my mind and yes the first thing I did was to see if I was on that list as I would have been furious

However it is only human nature to be petrified of doing something which could make my own situation considerably worse.

I can assure you that if I didn't owe these people any money and my desperately needed car was not at risk - I would have already forwarded you the document with bells on so to speak

Let me think on it for a short while

Yes. Have a think.

I can tell you that we are thoroughly on your side and we wouldn't do anything to put you at risk. I can assure you that there is no reason to feel compromised or blackmailed by the fact that you have this list.

If it makes you feel more comfortable, I won't turn it over to the press – but I will certainly phone some of the other victims and I will certainly inform the information Commissioner.

Just received an email from the finance company.

Very vague as to what they are or aren't doing.

Want to know if I've deleted the info

*edited to remove some info. As just dawned on me that anyone could actually be reading this thread

Don't worry about people reading the thread. Companies often do. As long as we are honest and straight dealing with everybody then there is nothing to lose. It is only people who are devious and dishonest who need to practice skulduggery.

If they have asked you if you have deleted the information, I would suggest that you are straight dealing with them and you tell them that – no you haven't. You are considering the position. You are considering complaining to the information Commissioner and that you want to know what they are proposing to do.

Don't forget, that if they are aware of a data breach then they have a duty to inform the victims and also they have a duty to inform the Information Commissioner. I'm pretty certain they never intended to do that.

They may try to deal with you and to give you what you want in exchange for your silence on the matter. Of course it's a matter for your own conscience – but they would be acting unlawfully if they try to hush this up. Honesty and straight dealing is the best policy.

If they try to bully you and say that you have a duty to destroy the information then come here. You have no duty to destroy the information. You are them nothing.

If they try to call you and deal with this on the telephone and I suggest that you make sure that you record the call.

Read our customer services guide

Ok so they have just tried to call us on both numbers.

Haven’t answered the calls and have emailed as above.

Shall wait back to hear from them

If you are prepared to let me have the list, first of all I can assure you that your name will be mentioned.

 

I intend to make a complaint to the information Commissioner and phone up two or three dozen of the people who appear on the list and let them know what has happened and suggest that they come here to this forum for advice and also they make their own individual complaints to the information Commissioner.

 

Then I have two or three press contacts who might be interested – but you are right, they may not be interested in such small list – but I have some good contacts and I'm happy to give it a try.

 

I can keep you informed by email as to what I have done and the reactions that I have received.

 

If I contacted the press, don't worry, I wouldn't give up your details.

What? You have no right to even ask for that information let alone do anything with it. You intend to complain to the ICO about the illegal sharing of information by illegally having it shared with you.

Ridiculous.

Hi TCFC

I presume from the email I have just received that you are busy reading this thread.

So TCFC have informed the ICO about the data breach, that’s great, well done for doing the right thing.

However you seem to be avoiding making any effort to assist me and my situation

What? You have no right to even ask for that information let alone do anything with it. You intend to complain to the ICO about the illegal sharing of information by illegally having it shared with you.

 

Ridiculous.

I'm sorry that you feel this way. I think you're wrong. I think there is an interest in contacting the information Commissioner and I think there is an interest in alerting the victims because I have no confidence that the car finance company will do it themselves without pressure.

Hi TCFC

 

I presume from the email I have just received that you are busy reading this thread.

 

So TCFC have informed the ICO about the data breach, that’s great, well done for doing the right thing.

 

However you seem to be avoiding making any effort to assist me and my situation

Have the Car Finance Company told you in writing that they have reported the breach to the information Commissioner?

You might like to post that message here.

You might also like to inform the information Commissioner yourself just to make sure.

I still think that we should telephone the victims. I would be surprised if the information Commissioner could be bothered to do it themselves.

Yes they have informed me via email.

Thank you for your email.

Once again, we would like to apologise for the situation. We are taking this situation very seriously, and have already informed the Information Commissioners Office today, and they confirmed receipt of it at 12:22pm.

We would appreciate the deletion of the email as we are trying to minimise any risk for those customers. We also want to make sure we are protecting you, as detailed in the confidentiality notice at the bottom of the original email, as potentially sharing any of that information could result in potential issues for yourself.

Kind Regards,

If they are doing the right thing then to be honest I’m impressed, I was horrified that this kind of error could happen quite so easily and can’t help but wonder who has access to my information. Surely there must be processes in place to prevent this.

I am massively disappointed though that they don’t seem to share the same level of concern for me as a customer.

I’m pleased to say that it appears the The Car Finance Company are meeting their obligations in respect of the data breach. I’m surprised but quite impressed.

Thank you for the advice received today

I'm pleased also that they are meeting their obligations but pardon me if I am cynical about it.

I think if it hadn't been discussed on this forum and if they hadn't seen that it was getting out of their control, then it would have all been hushed up.

Maybe the best thing few to do is to send the data which they sent you to the information Commissioner as part of your own complaint.

Personally I would still phone the victims – but if you feel calmer about it then just let the information Commissioner and then leave it at that.

As far as your own problem with the car finance company, we will continue to help you all we can