Marc Gander - The Consumer Survival Handbook


A 220 page introduction to all things consumer related by our own BankFodder.

Includes energy companies, mobile phone providers, retailers, banks, insurance companies,debt collection agencies, reclaim companies, secondhand car sellers, cowboy garages, cowboy builders and all the rest who put their own profits before you.

£6.99



Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

£19.99 + £1.50 (P&P)


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  1. #141

    Default Re: whatever happens knowhow cover

    Quote Originally Posted by icemen View Post
    I wanted to attach their defence & my skeleton claim to see if everything is correct.

    Also I needed guidance on the below directions which apply to the claim

    1)Each party must deliver to the other party and to the court office copies of all documents on which that party intend to rely at the hearing no later than 14 days before the hearing.

    2) The original documents must be bought to the hearing

    3)The judge may refuse to consider a document or take it into account if a copy of it has not been sent to the other party as required by this order.

    Does this mean I have to send copies of my skeleton claim to the defendant & to the court before I attend the hearing? & take copies of my whatever happens policies?

    thanks
    Ansar
    Yes...and its a statement not a skeleton claim

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  2. #142
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    Default Re: whatever happens knowhow cover

    Finally managed to attach ;-)

    I have attached pc worldicon response when they declined my claim, I have tried to separate their points so it is a bit more legible. I have XXX names email address etc

    I have attached my statement with the header & statement of truth. Is it OK like this or do I need to give an account of what happened from the start & tell tell judge how the tablet was damaged etc? Also shall I include all the policies i've had with PC World & the claims that i've made or is that too much information?

    thankz

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  3. #143

    Default Re: whatever happens knowhow cover

    It certainly is a most unconventional layout and not one I have ever come across before.Your statement is your only opportunity to confirm and complete your evidence...so anything referred to in either your particulars of claim or statement...must be included or reference to.

    You must attach exhibits if you wish to rely on them and mark them within the statement at the relevant position...sentence.

    If its not in the statement ..you cant refer to it or rely on it.

    I think the above requires a conclusion and what you want the court to order.

    Andy

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  4. #144
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    Default Re: whatever happens knowhow cover

    Quote Originally Posted by BankFodder View Post
    Please have a look at the draft document below.

    Check that it is correct and that it is true and let me know if you think there is anything missed out.
    Is there anything that you disagree with?

    Attachment 73273

    This is quite an unconventional way of presenting a skeleton argument but we used exactly this form in case a year or so ago against Npower and the judge complimented the claimant in the case and said how useful it was and how it clarified the issues.


    Bank fodder created this format & said it is unconventional but the judge complimented it in a previous case. Shall I stick to this format or do a standard statement?
    Bank fodder - shall I list all the policies I have with them currently active ? and the claims I've had previously just to give the judge the fuller picture of my custom & loyally to pc worldicon?
    Also for a conclusion, Just say now that the case has gone to court I want to claim for the full 250 to purchase a new tablet of similar spec?


  5. #145
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    Default Re: whatever happens knowhow cover

    There is nothing wrong with an unconventional approach if it does the job. Of course I'm not exactly impartial on this, but the format I have suggested is very clear and brief and that is what the judge will want.

    Personally I should use this format – apart from anything else, you are a litigant in person and so they will cut you a lot of slack.

    However, others may come along with a contrary view.

    You certainly can list all the policies that you have in the claims you have had against them. I would put that I completely separate sheet but tabulated in the way that I have tabulated the skeleton argument. You can supply your tabulated list of policies and claims as part of the bundle – but not as part of the skeleton argument.

    You say that you want to claim for the full 250 for a new tablet – but it won't be for you to dictate the level of damages that you get. You will simply argue your position and try to give good reasons why you should get the level of damages you have asked for. The other side will express contrary opinions and then the judge will make a decision.



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  6. #146
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    Default Re: whatever happens knowhow cover

    I have paid the fee & sent my response to the court & emailed to the defendant last week. I also attached a separate letter with all my policies & claims against them
    Today I received two letter from PC World.
    One letter stating their position remains the same.
    Stating my comments that this is not the sixth claim against this tablet, saying their records show their are six instances of claims. I don't think they even bothered to check if the claims are against different tablets. Anyway their policy clearly states "you can have unlimited repairs" so pointing out how many repairs is irrelevant.
    Also stating for clarification whilst the scope of service agreement does cover damage caused by accidents & mishaps the terms and conditions of the agreement under the heading "whats not covered included" expressly excludes and specify damage caused by neglect,misuse or abuse of the product is not covered. The reason for this response is because in their first response they said in point 3 "excludes damage caused by accident, misuse, neglect or fair Wear and Tearicon"
    Stating they will be complying by the court order in respect of providing their bundle of documents to include both number of claims and a full copy of the service agreement. This is what I want as it will prove claims against different policies.
    Also stating for purpose of clarity, as highlight in our defence it was not stated that the tablet was dropped in the bath by yourself. We note you have stated this was dropped by your six year old daughter however it is our position you failed to reasonable level of care of the tablet by allowing your six year old to take an electrical item in the bathroom near a body of water. It is our view that failing to take reasonable steps to ensure the tablet is not put at such risk would be an instance of neglect on your part.
    It clearly states on their response point 7 "the Claimant attended the Defendant’s Birmingham store to notify that the tablet had been accidentally damaged and was dropped in the bath" so to say it was not stated that the tablet was dropped in the bath is say i'm a lair but it's in their own response?

    The second letter headed with "without prejudiceicon" - what does this mean
    Basically stating they stand by their defence however to resolve this matter they willing to pay me 150 as a gesture of good will, going back to before I made the claim I contacted their customer servicesicon & stated I would accept 100 to obtain replacement so they have offer 150, 50 for my fees i've paid for this case.
    Stating the offer is made "without prejudiceicon save as to costs" so it must not be shown to the court or referred to until the case has been heard and the judge has made known his findings.
    Stating I should give their offer a serious consideration in the event I don't receive an award for the amount offered they will ask the judge that I make a contributionicon to the defendants expenses. Trying to scare me off?
    It makes even more angry that it's taken me 8 months to get here and now that they know I have done everything even as far as pay the court fee for the hearing that it's finally going to court & that they have to take me seriously. They make me an offer.
    I have a good mind of replying to them & asking for 250 now & 50 for the fees, 300 in total, for me to settle out of court as this what an equivalent tablet would cost now a day? I paid 240 back 2014! Otherwise take it court, leave it in gods hands.
    The cheek of these company, honest makes your blood boil
    What your option Bank fodder?


  7. #147

    Default Re: whatever happens knowhow cover

    We could do with some help from you

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  8. #148
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    Default Re: whatever happens knowhow cover

    It is completely predictable that this point when they finally realised that it is likely to go to court that they will try to make you a good will offer in order to sort it out, reduce the costs and also very importantly from their point of view, reduce the chances of a judgement against them with the consequent humiliation and possible publicity on social media.

    Their threat to seek a contributionicon to costs has almost no foundation whatsoever. This is a small claimicon and as long as you have litigated reasonably and not unreasonably incurred costs or prolonged litigation then the rule is that each side bears the costs. However, this is subject to judicial discretion but an order for costs or a contributionicon to costs would only be exercised very rarely

    It's clear from what you say that they still don't seem to understand that you have had several separate policies and the fact that they are trying to tell the court that you have had a single policy and made multiple claims against it is a serious flaw in their position and I agree with you it is pretty amazing that they haven't copied onto this yet.

    In terms of their offer to you and the money you're claiming, it is really going to be for you to take a very reasonable view as to the likely outcome of the case in the event that you win. This means, what will the court award you.

    I'm afraid that I have rather lost track of this thread and so I'm not quite sure exactly what the know-how cover offers you. Is it a like-for-like replacement? Maybe you could spell it out for me. Of course it will have to be taken into consideration you have had some use out of it. I'm almost certain that you are not being offered a new for old replacement.

    If you consider that there offer is equal to what a court would award you in the event that you win then you will probably have to accept the offer. Of course you would also expect them to pay the costs which you have incurred so far.

    It is very important that you understand that this is not the moment to exercise anger or a sense of revenge when calculating the amount of money that you are claiming. You have to be extremely pragmatic and realistic about what the know-how cover offers you because this effectively sets out the limit of what the court can award you.

    If you dig your heels in and insist that your claim is for a figure which a court finds is wildly excessive then the court will only offer you the reduced figure and might exceptionally consider ordering you to pay a contribution to their costs. This will probably be far more than the damages you are claiming



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  9. #149
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    Default Re: whatever happens knowhow cover

    This is what it says on their knowhow policy

    We’ll fix or replace with new - if we are unable to repair your product, we’ll give you a brand new one.


    They can't fix it so they owe me a new one?


    So I don't think I'm being unreasonable now, I only offered them that offer before I took them to court, now that I have taken them to court I want a new replacement.


    Do you think I should ask them as it can't d any harm & they can only refuse?


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    Default Re: whatever happens knowhow cover

    But if that's what they say then that is what you are entitled to.

    If there aren't brand-new ones available then you had better identify what you consider is an equivalent replacement and get a printout of that to show to the court

    I don't think you should be asking anything. I think you should be simply asserting your position. This means that you respond to them and tell them that you are rejecting their proposed settlement because it is not what is promised in the knowhow contract and that you are quite sure that the court will find in your favour and essentially they will enforce the contract.

    Point out them once again that they are misleading the court by suggesting that you have had six claims on the same policy. Tell them you will put them to proof on this point at the hearing. Tell them that it is clear that you had a number of knowhow policies as you have already explained in the documents and you will be explaining that again to the court.



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  11. #151
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    Default

    First rate advice.


  12. #152
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    Default Re: whatever happens knowhow cover

    I think I need to add here that the calculation you have to make which I referred to in my previous post – must be balanced against the risk of you losing the case.

    I think that your chances of success are very high but of course you will only really find out on the day of the hearing when the judge makes a decision. If the judge finds against you then you will have thrown everything away and you will probably feel very angry.

    This is all a serious consideration. I suppose that the end of the day the case will turn on the meaning of "mishap". It is clear to me that there is a conflict within the know-how provisions because on one hand they talk of mishaps and on the other hand they try to exclude liability for an accident.

    Assuming that you decide to continue with your claim, you will have to point out to the judge that the know-how cover has been carelessly worded because it contains conflicting language. You will have to point out to the judge however that the defendants are well resourced and claim to be experts on what they do and so it would be for them to assure that the know-how cover policy is properly drawn up. You would have to asked the judge to accept that you are simply a layperson, a customer with no special knowledge and you are relying on the spirit of the know-how policy and that you are not a lawyer who is expected to be able to analyse the language in fine detail. Therefore any ambiguities in the wording should be interpreted against the larger better resourced defendant. Any ambiguities should be resolved in your favour as you are the customer and you are the weaker party.

    In law this is known as the contra preferentum rule. This rule says that any ambiguous provisions in a contract will generally be interpreted against the party seeking to rely on language – especially where that party is responsible for the language and is the dominant party in the relationship. The defendant here is definitely the larger dominant party. In legal parlance you would describe them as "the better loss bearer".
    The loss to them is insignificant. The loss to you is significant.



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  13. #153
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    Default Re: whatever happens knowhow cover

    I just like to say thank you to everyone on this forum especially Bankfodder for support and advise. Today I have agreed to settle out of court with pc worldicon for the sum of 220.


  14. #154
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    Default Re: whatever happens knowhow cover

    Good result. Well done.There is a donateicon button somewhere!!!



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