Hi,

I have been looking at the various info in the various threads and was hoping that someone could confirm or even advise if I have got the process correct.

Some 12 weeks ago I had an ATOS 'assessment' which was to move me over to ESA from Incapacity Benefit and have today been notified that I have been placed in the ESA WRAG Group. I know having read all the guides on filling in the forms that I would/should score 15 points on one condition alone thus meeting the Support Group criteria, so I now intend to seek a reassessment of the decision. So my steps should be:

Phone and state that I wish to appeal the decision, request a copy of the Atos Assessment, a copy of the score sheet relating to the criteria I was judged on and a copy of the decision makers statement clarifying the reasons for the decision.

Are these three separate documents ?

The one part that I'm a bit confused about is the rates of benefit if I continue to the appeal and if they change from the moment I phone up to Appeal.

Any advice is more than welcome.

Thanks

The rate of benefit you receive will stay the same.

The rate of benefit you receive will stay the same.

Thanks for such a quick response.

Just to point out - scoring 15 points on one criteria alone doesn't not actually give you support group.

The support group criteria is here

Just to point out - scoring 15 points on one criteria alone doesn't not actually give you support group.

 

The support group criteria is here

Sorry, I should have explained it clearer that I do actually meet one of those criteria listed on that link.

Thanks for that link.

Hi,

So yesterday decided to phone up and inform them I wish to appeal the decision, I had the usual long wait on the phone and was eventually put through to an advisor, the following very short conversation took place:

Advisor: Hello, my name is ****** how can I help you

Me: I wish to appeal against a decision regarding my recent ESA claim following my Atos assessment.

Advisor: Ok.

Click.

Bloody hung up on me.

Not pleased at all, so will have another go Monday morning.

Not pleased at all, so will have another go Monday morning.

Once you have made the call, back it with a letter to the benefit office dealing with your claim. Send it recorded delivery if you can, and file the proof of delivery away with a copy of the letter. Should they deny deny receipt, you will have the evidence to hand.

Never trust anything someone says unless it is backed up in writing and/or you have a recording of the conversation.

Once you have made the call, back it with a letter to the benefit office dealing with your claim. Send it recorded delivery if you can, and file the proof of delivery away with a copy of the letter. Should they deny deny receipt, you will have the evidence to hand.

 

Never trust anything someone says unless it is backed up in writing and/or you have a recording of the conversation.

I think I will put it in writing now Mr P

The address on the letter is:

Bolton Benefit Centre

Post Handling Site B

Wolverhampton

WV99 1SA

How messed up is this department when a letter for the Bolton Benefit Centre is sent to Wolverhampton, and I don't even live in Bolton either

What happened to the local Jobcentreplus offices handling claims.

Hi,

I'm a Welfare Rights Officer in my day job and I can advise that you need to request a mandatory reconsideration of the decision to place you in the WRAG. Ignore all the rubbish you may have re the points. All the 15 points get you is ESA. You then need to meet the limited capability for work related activity descriptors to be placed in the support group.The mandatory recon has to be done within 30 days of the date on the decision letter.

How messed up is this department when a letter for the Bolton Benefit Centre is sent to Wolverhampton, and I don't even live in Bolton either

What happened to the local Jobcentreplus offices handling claims.

I believe the DWP has had a major overhaul of all their Mail Opening Units and have centralised operations for most of England in Wolverhampton. There doesn't seem to be much point as it can only lead to delays and a greater risk of documents being lost.

I believe the DWP has had a major overhaul of all their Mail Opening Units and have centralised operations for most of England in Wolverhampton. There doesn't seem to be much point as it can only lead to delays and a greater risk of documents being lost.

Yes, all the mail goes to mail handling sites in Wolverhampton and is then scanned to the relevant benefit centre. For your peace of mind send it special delivery requiring a signature and keep a copy of the letter. Lead time for man recons is anything from 2 weeks to several months. Call them after about 10 days to check they received it too.

Hi,

Thanks for all the advice, I have taken notice and will follow all the suggestions.

Hi,

I have now got the decision makers scoresheet and something is puzzling me so if anyone could just clarify things please.

As mazoo suggested, you need 15 points to qualify for ESA, but then need to meet the criteria for Support Group, I understand that.

What is puzzling me is, if you are awarded points for some of the actual Support descriptors surely that would mean that you have met those requirements. Or am I missing something.

Thanks

Hi,

 

I have now got the decision makers scoresheet and something is puzzling me so if anyone could just clarify things please.

As mazoo suggested, you need 15 points to qualify for ESA, but then need to meet the criteria for Support Group, I understand that.

What is puzzling me is, if you are awarded points for some of the actual Support descriptors surely that would mean that you have met those requirements. Or am I missing something.

 

Thanks

Do you mind if I ask how long have you been receiving IB before ESA?

Hi,

 

I have now got the decision makers scoresheet and something is puzzling me so if anyone could just clarify things please.

As mazoo suggested, you need 15 points to qualify for ESA, but then need to meet the criteria for Support Group, I understand that.

What is puzzling me is, if you are awarded points for some of the actual Support descriptors surely that would mean that you have met those requirements. Or am I missing something.

 

Thanks

It is my understanding that you do not receive points for the suppport group criteria, either you meet them or you don't. The points are awarded for the general descriptors, if you achieve 15 or more in total you are awarded ESA WRAG. In most cases (but not all) 15 points for a single descriptor would also entitle you to the support group.

Perhaps if you detailed which descriptors you have scored points on and how many, someone would be able to confirm you should be in the support group or alternatively explain why you're not.

RMW is right.

Some descriptors are 15 points. In that case, you're entitled to ESA. Some of these are then support group, in which case, you're in the support group. The link I posted above tells you which ones they are.

RMW is correct re the points. You need 15 points to be placed in the ESA full stop. To be placed in the Support Group you need to meet one of the descriptors in the limited capability for work related test, which are different to the WCA.

However, would guess you have one or two issues that got you the 15 points in the first place, so concentrate on them and see which of the activities/descriptors may apply.

Also, bear in mind reg 35 may apply. This is a catch-all relating to the potential problems for a person or others if they were deemed fit for work related activity.

Without knowing where you got points it's difficult to say exactly which activity will apply for work related activity.

RMW is right.

 

Some descriptors are 15 points. In that case, you're entitled to ESA. Some of these are then support group, in which case, you're in the support group. The link I posted above tells you which ones they are.

Thanks Nystagmite, I scored a total of 21 points which qualified me for ESA, the points were for:

Standing and sitting 9 points

Coping with Change 6 points

Continence 6 points

For the Continence descriptor the DM has put:

"The overall evidence provided indicates that Mr Odds is, for the majority of the time, at risk of loss of control leading to extensive evacuation of the bowel and/or voiding of the bladder, sufficiently to require cleaning and a change of clothing, despite the wearing or use of any aids which are normally or could reasonably be used and therefore six points are awarded"

I have been placed in the WRAG Group for 2 years.

Now to me, totally untrained of course, it would appear to me according to what the DM has written there that I satisfy the criteria in the link you posted with the Support Group descriptors.

Interestingly, the ATOS chap in his Prognosis at the end of the report has put:

Expected Change

Functional Problems

I advise that work is unlikely within 2 years

Reasons for the opinion given

The available evidence suggests improvement is unlikely in the longer term.

Can anyone offer some guidance please, I'm totally confused now

Thanks.

Seems to me your challenge should be the continence issue where you appear to have a solid argument. Also, the DM is not allowed to make decisions that appear not be reasonable, so I would therefore also argue the DM erred by not taking into account the RMP's statement you were unlikely to be able to work for two years.

Hi

I haven't yet sent my letter off to the DWP for the Mandatory Reconsideration, but I have been doing a lot of reading.

Everything I have seen says that if you are on ESA in the WRAG then your payments will only be made for 12 months, yet I have been placed in it for two years. Am I missing something obvious or just totally misunderstanding what I have read.

Thanks

Hi,

Someone will correct me if I am wrong but I believe you are placed on contribution based benefit for 12 months and then switched over to income based. You will still get money after the 12 months providing you do not have a working partner (or at least not working or earning over the threshold) and that you have no additional monies coming in which are counted (DLA and housing etc are not counted and are disregarded). In your original post you asked about backdating, if there is an increase in benefit it will be backdated to the date the decision was made. I was moved from IB to ESA last year (only after appeal, but I was placed in support group when I was accepted on ESA. All money was backdated)

Yes - WRAG contributions based is only paid for 12 months.

Hi,

Just a quick question, I have spoken to DWP regarding my Mandatory Redecision, I have since had an appointment made for an 'interview' at the local JC. The person I spoke to suggested I contact the local JC and see if they would postpone it until a decision was made. I asked about access to toilet facilities as this was what my claim was based on and again, he advised to speak to them.

So where would you stand legally if you need access to toilets because of incontinence, which is in my ESA report, and the JC couldn't provide that facility where would I stand (no pun intended) ?

Thoughts please.

Thanks

Could you ask for a phone interview instead?

I think by law, they are required to allow access to toilet facilities.

Could you ask for a phone interview instead?

 

I think by law, they are required to allow access to toilet facilities.

I don't know if they do interviews over the phone to be honest, I did ask the guy from DWP if the JC would be aware of my medical conditions but he wasn't much help and suggested I phone them.

I think I'll be taking a copy of my Atos assessment and DM report to let him read through and then we can start from there.

Thanks