Hi all,

Right! - this could be a difficult one.

My wife has a Lloyds bank Trustcard credit card which goes all the way back to 1988 and has PPI on it throughout the 30 years it's been in existence.

Now, the CC is still active although the balance is now zero as i managed to finally get it all paid off around June 2013.

The card was originally issued as a Cheque Guarantee card for her current account.

This was issued when she opened the current account.

What wasn't initially obvious was the fact that it was also a credit card with a separate credit card account.

I have a quite a few questions - so be gentle with me

1. My wife never applied for a CC only a Current account with TSB and had no idea that the subsequent CC account carried Payment Insurance - is that grounds for a PPI miss-sell?

2. We have scoured the house for monthly statements and have pretty much every one from 2000 to 2013, most of 97-98, some of 96 and some very sparse copies from 91 and 92. We have nothing prior to 91 - except believe it or not the actual original plastic card with issued in 88 on it. So as you can see we have alot of missing years in between.

What can we do (if anything) to try and fill in the missing years?

Is it even possible or permissible to extrapolate the data.

3. I sent an SAR and received back alot of paperwork but nothing back further than 2000.

So that was no real help - is there anything else i can request?

4. If it is a case worth pursuing and bearing in mind that it runs across some 330 months up until 2013 when it was paid off

- is there any spreadsheet i can use to try and assertain just how much we might (if successful) get back?

5. Do i make calculations up until the balance was brought to zero or until now?

6. What's the best approach for this - FOS, letters to bank, Resolver?? I've had success with resolver on bank loans with PPI but they were simple things in comparison.

I'm a bit clueless as to the best approach on this one as CC PPI seems to be so much more complicated.

If anyone could guide me along this path I would be very grateful.

Answers on a postcard

Thanks in advance

Kholo

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?330996-Latest-Spreadsheets-PPI-Claims-and-Charges-Claims-Dec-2011

ideally you should use the FOS running sheet

but you could use the FOS CI one.

I would never use resolver for ppi

its just doesn't give you any legal way to challenge if their refund is correct.

Hi DX,

Thanks for the response.

ideally you should use the fosicon running sheet

 

but you could use the FOS CI one.

Excuse my ignorance but what's the difference?

Thanks

Kholo

read the notes for each

Have you checked the disclosure which was made and is it complete?

You should certainly make your claim and when you make it you should be claiming for the maximum amount possible and then be prepared to fall back later if necessary.

If you feel that there is evidence missing then simply extrapolate over the life of the PPI policy – and what you have found it extremely helpful so far.

I'm not too clear as to what you mean when you say should you make calculations up to the point it was repaid or until now. Maybe you could explain. Whatever the case, Lloyds are in debt to you – and will remain so until they repay you the money. At the very least you will be entitled to 8% on the running balance until the date of repayment.

You're probably looking at an enormous amount of money.

Keeping close contact with this website that each step you take – and don't for a moment think about going to a claims company which will simply charge you a huge percentage of the money which has been unlawfully taken from you.

Hi Bankfodder,

Thanks for the reply.

I'm a little unclear what you mean when you refer to the disclosure - do you mean the SAr? and if so how would i know if it's complete?

Surely we're at the mercy of the bank in this case?

In terms of missing evidence (ie monthly statements) how can i accurately extrapolate backwards in time

- most of the missing CC statements are at the beginning of the cards life.

We don't have an opening balance of any kind, we don't know what level of monthly expenditure that was occurring or the regularity or amounts of balance reductions by payment.

I'm thinking that this is going to have to be a chance it and see type of application.

I don't really envisage Lloyds rolling over and going for a back payment without any history to corroborate.

Like i said all we have in the way of proof is the original plastic CC from 1988

- so it's a thin claim in my opinion.

Please correct me if i'm way out or sounding defeated on the best way to approach this.

My question about trying to work out compensation up to the point the account was paid off or to the current date was because i didn't know if the running compensation stopped at the point the account reached zero balance or continued at 8% of the amount owed back to us until the claim is settled

- sorry i'm not explaining very well but i think you answered it by saying

At the very least you will be entitled to 8% on the running balance until the date of repayment.

We're a little phased by the volume of work that all this seems to entail but i suppose that the price you pay in order to get redress.

Thanks

Kholo

You're probably looking at an enormous amount of money.

BTW my wife says "how enormous" lol

what typically happens here is you use the data you already have to give you an average for the months you don't have statements for

[the fos recommend this method]

then use that in the fosCIsheet

enter their avg apr D16

enter every PPI payment on the date it was levied

set the claim to date on the date they STOPPED THEIR INT.

[this gives you what you are entitled to at their in rate compounded]

then take the total that ^^sheet gives....

then use the statint sheet

enter that total as one whole amount on the day AFTER the claim to date of the foscisheet

[this give you the stat s69 8% int you are entitled to until they settle]

NOTE leave the claim to date alone

I would suggest any way that you begin the claim. It's not really necessary to know exactly how much you are claiming in order to start things off. The eventual figures that you come up with can be used to query the offer that you eventually receive.

Hi DX,

Thanks for you reply - things are starting to get clearer now.

When you talk about averaging - do you mean take the average PPI amount per month across the whole 30 years where i have data to give me value for where i have blanks OR average it across the lot??

Is there anything i should be doing with things such as late payment charges (there were alot of those)?

You make a good point BF - the main thing is to get it started - i'm filling in what i can now and will report back

I've entered the PPI charges i have data for (not worked out an average for the blanks yet) and entered them in the fosCIsheet and the value it comes up with is big - would that be right.

With the average PPI filled in for the blanks this will become enormous - seems too big for such small amounts. I know it's over 320 months but even so.

You should certainly be looking at recovering late payment charges.

There are two issues here. Firstly in relation to PPI, could it be said that if you had not had the PPI policy, you would have not been faced with the charges. This is less likely to be the case with late payment but certainly could be the case with over limit charges – they may be unlikely on a credit card.

The second issue which is not PPI related is that in about 2009 the 0FT (defunct) announced that credit card charges over £12 were prima facie unfair. If you have records of charges which were more than £12 then you should recover them simply on the basis that they were unfairly imposed on you and that they amounted to unfair penalties. You may find that the bank will try merely to refund you the difference, but it doesn't work that way. Once they are unfair than their completely unfair. Not only should you recover these but also you should recover the interest that you paid on them where line of credit on your credit card was used to fund them. This is because your bank would have taken, say, £20 late payment charge and then charge you interest on that because it forms part of your credit card balance. Once you have calculated that, you add 8% which the bank are required to repay you for having deprived you of the use of your money. We don't need to start feeling sorry for the bank because while they have had your money, they have been lending it out at colossal rates to other people who have breached their overdraft limits et cetera. Even if/when the banks finish handing all the PPI money et cetera back, they are still quids in. They have never been ordered to disgorge all the profits that they have made out of their greed and dishonesty.

I have found that in dealing with customers Lloyds is particularly dishonest and so you need to be very careful.

Thanks Bankfodder,

So do i need to deal with charges (2009 unfair or otherwise) as a separate claim? If so is there yet another form / spreadsheet i should be referring to? Wow this is complicated.

Thanks

Kholo

Yes, I think that if you have discovered late payment charges which exceed the £12 maximum limit set by the 0FT then I'm afraid that this becomes a separate matter and you should start a separate claim. You should also start a separate thread.

Although it is getting complicated, starting a separate claim is not such a bad thing because you will then be attacking the bank on two fronts. Beware of the bank because they will try to merge the complaints and you should resist this.

Yes there are separate spreadsheets et cetera – but I'm not sure where they are but I expect somebody else will come along and let you know.

Reclaiming the charges is likely to be more straightforward than claiming historical PPI payments

I would leave the charges alone for now

but mention them in your covering letter

that you want and late/overlimit fees that were the result of the PPI to be refunded too.

on your sheet questions

you can use an overall avg yes

or take a years avg that's closest to the missing data dates

and yes your reclaim will be huge [£1000's ]

Hi all,

Can i just get a sanity check from you all.

I've been entering the PPI amounts into the FosCISheetv101 all day as we've had a hunt about and found another 2 years worth of Credit card statements.

Can someone confirm what rate I put in the APR Cell D15 - is it the CC APR rate (which in this case was 29.95%).

Because when i enter that, the value that comes up for the claim total is ridiculous

- I mean really ridiculous. It's so high I must be doing something wrong.

Also, does it matter that over the life of the CC that the balance came down to zero in 2013 and then stayed 0 for 2 years before getting a positive balance and of course getting the PPI charge back.

Do i use the date it came down to zero as the 'claim to' date or do i use the last date where it had a positive balance - confused.

Thanks all

Kholo

BTW this is all without creating ANY average PPI entries for months where we're missing a statement with a PPI value.

I'm totally baffled. If anyone is up to trying work this out -even roughly - here are the basics.

Credit card with 29% APR. 1st PPI charge I have data for is 9/5/91. I have another 190 PPI entries at an average value of £9.83. The last positive PPI balance (ie the date i'd be claiming up to) is 9/02/2017

So that's 190 entries across a total of 372 months - so as you can see we have alot of missing months.

Like I said - i haven't even considered putting annual average PPI values into the fields i have blank

[to make things clearer I've merged 3 posts with q's - dx]

I can't help you on which rate to put – but somebody will be along.

However, in terms of high figures, the highest claim we have assisted so far was £64,000. I think the second highest claim was about £45,000.

The £64,000 person ended up being interviewed on BBC Radio Four Money Box. She didn't even give us a mention.

Bankfodder - it never ceases to amaze me how quickly people forget the free help they receive. I for one will be donating more than a mention if my wife and I receive even half way close to these figures.

Cheers

Kholo

Thank you. We are always happy to have donations.

You might be interested to know that the person who claimed £64,000 donated £50.

The person who claimed £45,000 – we didn't hear from them again.

On a totally different subject - I can't seem to be able to find where i can change my email address.

user cp top right

then down the left side menus in yellow

I'm totally baffled. If anyone is up to trying work this out -even roughly - here are the basics.

 

Credit card with 29% APR. 1st PPI charge I have data for is 9/5/91. I have another 190 PPI entries at an average value of £9.83. The last positive PPI balance (ie the date i'd be claiming up to) is 9/02/2017

 

So that's 190 entries across a total of 372 months - so as you can see we have alot of missing months.

 

Like I said - i haven't even considered putting annual average PPI values into the fields i have blank

you can attach your .xls file here if you need too click go advanced bottom right next to post quick reply box

manage attachments

Thanks DX - i'll put it up

Here you go!

FosCISheet v101-CAG.xls

let me just run through a few thinks as i've merged you q's to one post - #14

so lets run through them...

Hi all,

 

Can i just get a sanity check from you all.

 

I've been entering the PPI amounts into the FosCISheetv101 all day as we've had a hunt about and found another 2 years worth of Credit card statements.

 

Can someone confirm what rate I put in the APR Cell D15 - is it the CC APR rate (which in this case was 29.95%). - you use the avg int rate across all the years

Because when i enter that, the value that comes up for the claim total is ridiculous

- I mean really ridiculous. It's so high I must be doing something wrong. - it will be!

 

Also, does it matter that over the life of the CC that the balance came down to zero in 2013 and then stayed 0 for 2 years before getting a positive balance and of course getting the PPI charge back.- if it was zero then you paid no ppi that month

 

Do i use the date it came down to zero as the 'claim to' date or do i use the last date where it had a positive balance - confused.- the last date they charged you interest on a neg balance.

 

Thanks all

Kholo

 

BTW this is all without creating ANY average PPI entries for months where we're missing a statement with a PPI value.

 

I'm totally baffled. If anyone is up to trying work this out -even roughly - here are the basics.

 

Credit card with 29% APR. 1st PPI charge I have data for is 9/5/91.

I have another 190 PPI entries at an average value of £9.83.

The last positive PPI balance (ie the date i'd be claiming up to) is 9/02/2017

 

So that's 190 entries across a total of 372 months - so as you can see we have alot of missing months.

 

Like I said - i haven't even considered putting annual average PPI values into the fields i have blank

 

[to make things clearer I've merged 3 posts with q's - dx]

dx

Hi DX, Thanks for the abridged version,

the last date they charged you interest on a neg balance.

On a neg balance?? Sorry to be dense - can you clarify what this means.

Thanks

Kholo

you cant charge 30% back to 1998 you need to avg the APR over all the years.

avg the PPI payments you know till line 131 and use that for the unknown months.

from then

for the odd missing month use an avg of the data I month either side

HTH