Marc Gander - The Consumer Survival Handbook


A 220 page introduction to all things consumer related by our own BankFodder.

Includes energy companies, mobile phone providers, retailers, banks, insurance companies,debt collection agencies, reclaim companies, secondhand car sellers, cowboy garages, cowboy builders and all the rest who put their own profits before you.

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Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

£19.99 + £1.50 (P&P)


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  1. #21

    Default Re: Excel Parking/BW Legal Form N180 *** Discontinued ***

    keep an eye on the clock, getting your points across now will hurt them as tey may well get told they have filed to show a cause for action and the whole thing is thrown out summariliy.


  2. #22
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    Default Re: Excel Parking/BW Legal Form N180 *** Discontinued ***

    I'm putting a defence together now but Im having problems. How can I defend this claim if the dates, vehicle and registration are all wrong ?
    Surely I just say non of these details are correct and there is no case to answer. What am I defending ?


  3. #23

    Default Re: Excel Parking/BW Legal Form N180 *** Discontinued ***

    read uploadicon
    you don't need a scanner

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  4. #24

    Default Re: Excel Parking/BW Legal Form N180 *** Discontinued ***

    have you checked to see what the amended POCicon's are?
    have they actually filed them with the court.
    If they havent the whole thing is over and done with.
    ASK the court before you do anything else.

    Do this my tomorrow and then we can help you once we know what these bandits are now saying.

    again, you dont need to write a book at this juncture, just somehting that points out the paucity of their claim.
    we have standard phrases we use so get the gen on whether they have complaied with the order and we can put some words together.

    The keeper may well not be going to court after all but work on the theory that excel are very stupid and dont know when to stop.
    Even gladdys were glad to see the back of them when they took their business to BWL

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  5. #25
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    Default Re: Excel Parking/BW Legal Form N180 *** Discontinued ***

    I checked on Friday they have filed them with the court but I didnt ask about the details I am presuming its the same as mine.

    The only thing that relates to the case is a picture of the correct vehicle / number plate.

    Still no evidence in the picture of the driver
    the last photocopy in the pack is a letter sent to another party relating to another case. Its a complete shambles.

    My guess is they only had 7 days so they through something together very quickly and got all the docs / details mixed up.

    How can I reply ?


  6. #26

    Default Re: Excel Parking/BW Legal Form N180 *** Discontinued ***

    It isnt clear from your posting what the new POCicon says. You should post it up as it appears when you got your copy of the new version


  7. #27

    Default Re: Excel Parking/BW Legal Form N180 *** Discontinued ***

    Quote Originally Posted by J English View Post
    Just back from Hols and found a letter from the local court stating the following:

    The claimant has until 14th April 4pm to file and serve amended particulars of claim addressing matters required by CPR1998 PD16.7 and the legal basis of the claim shall be struck out.

    They have filed them arrived 13th and I received a copy post dated 13th April.

    I have been given 14 days from service to serve on the claimant an amended defence. i.e. 27th April.

    Its a bit short notice considering I gave them dates when not available.

    BW Legal have sent 15 pages or so 5 pages setting out their claim the rest copies of the lease to the car park photo copies of the parking notice, signage and parking notice.

    If you want me to type all the details out i can but they have made some mistakes on the particulars of claim on te first page which I will give you now.

    1. the PCN for parking contravention which occured on the 28th October 2016 (The contrevention date) - Wrong date

    2. The claimant does not intend to reply on the registered keeper liability detailed under the protection of freedoms act 2012

    4. At all material times, the defendant was the registered keeper and / or the driver of the ........... bearing vehicle registration mark ....... - They have the wrong vehicle and VRM.

    5. The claimant submits that the defendant was the driver of the vehicle on the contravention date. - Still no evidence.

    I need to check if its been filed electronically but at the moment all I have is a hand copy.

    regards
    He already has the amended particulars EB

    Andy

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  8. #28
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    Default Re: Excel Parking/BW Legal Form N180 *** Discontinued ***

    Hi sorry I dont have a scanner or printer.
    I have taken a photo of each page and now have them on the PC but Im not sure how to download them and send as a PDFicon file.
    Sorry


  9. #29

    Default Re: Excel Parking/BW Legal Form N180 *** Discontinued ***

    read uploadicon

    PLEASE REFRAIN FROM HITTING 'REPLY WITH QUOTE' IF YOU ARE SIMPLY REPLYING TO THE LAST POST IN A THREAD..JUST TYPE!!
    it makes a thread twice as long to scroll through..save data download times and costs
    If you want advice please PM me a link to your thread. PM advice is not allowed!!
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  10. #30

    Default Re: Excel Parking/BW Legal Form N180 *** Discontinued ***

    Seeing it in full without comment exactly as written is what i want to see.


  11. #31
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    Default Re: Excel Parking/BW Legal Form N180 *** Discontinued ***

    I'll have ago to uploadicon tomorrow but IT not my best subject , time is running out.

    The court will accept an email copy not sure about BW Legal.
    Deadline Friday.

    I cant see how I can but anything together as BW have made a complete B..ls up , surely we simply say

    we cant comment on any of the particulars as we have know knowledge of the date/vehicle etc etc.Thank them for wasting everyones time including the judjes. STRUCK OUT !


  12. #32

    Default Re: Excel Parking/BW Legal Form N180 *** Discontinued ***

    Quote Originally Posted by J English View Post
    I'll have ago to uploadicon tomorrow but IT not my best subject , time is running out. The court will accept an email copy not sure about BW Legal. Deadline Friday. I cant see how I can but anything together as BW have made a complete B..ls up , surely we simply say
    we cant comment on any of the particulars as we have know knowledge of the date/vehicle etc etc.Thank them for wasting everyones time including the judjes. STRUCK OUT !!!!!
    Have you clicked on the word upload in your or my post? There's a load of instructions behind the page that tell you what to do.

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  13. #33

    Default Re: Excel Parking/BW Legal Form N180 *** Discontinued ***

    Quote Originally Posted by J English View Post
    I'll have ago to uploadicon tomorrow but IT not my best subject , time is running out. The court will accept an email copy not sure about BW Legal. Deadline Friday. I cant see how I can but anything together as BW have made a complete B..ls up , surely we simply say
    we cant comment on any of the particulars as we have know knowledge of the date/vehicle etc etc.Thank them for wasting everyones time including the judjes. STRUCK OUT !!!!!
    And you will lose if you submit the above...a defence must be CPR compliant.

    We could do with some help from you

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  14. #34
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    Default Re: Excel Parking/BW Legal Form N180 *** Discontinued ***

    first 5 attachements sorry I tried to put allof them in 1 file. I'll post the next 5 docs.

    Next 5 pages. One more to send

    last couple of docs.

    When you look at the photos to the entrance to the car park no mention of costs etc. the kiosk was closed and the signage in the background shows the back of the sign (in grey) with parking chargesicon on. etc.

    I've managed to put it into a zip file.

    Attached Files Attached Files

  15. #35

    Default Re: Excel Parking/BW Legal Form N180 *** Discontinued ***

    thread tidied zip converted to PDFicon and reduced it size from 40mb

    PLEASE REFRAIN FROM HITTING 'REPLY WITH QUOTE' IF YOU ARE SIMPLY REPLYING TO THE LAST POST IN A THREAD..JUST TYPE!!
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  16. #36
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    Default Re: Excel Parking/BW Legal Form N180 *** Discontinued ***

    many thanks


  17. #37

    Default Re: Excel Parking/BW Legal Form N180 *** Discontinued ***

    have you looked at their statement and gone through it line by line?

    There are many errors, for example, they say they arent relying on the POFA to create a keeper liability but then say that you are being sued as driver/keeper.
    ditto at 6.1 they cant claim agency as the POFA is specific about this and at point

    29.2 the POFA says only the original about billed in the NTK applies to keeper. they also say they are claiming 60 in costs agreed if they were suing driver but at point
    31 they say the sum is 54. They both cant be right.

    On the sign photo offered as evidence they say the 100 charge is reduced to 40 yet they claimed more than this in the NTK.
    The core terms of the sign dont say anything about a charge being payable for not buing a ticket and the small print snt that clear so you can reject the whole deal as an unfair contract under S62 of the Consumer Rights Acticon

    The company they have a lease with changed names in 2013 and no evidence has been offered to show that the lease was renewed after 2010 under the same terms.

    so you need to print out the relevant sections of the POFA to show that they are barking up the wrong tree.
    this info can be found on other recent threads and you MUST differentiate between your position as defendant and KEEPER of the vehicle and the driver at the time.

    Then saying you have failed to tell them who was driving makes you liable isnt true but if you dont point these things out then it will be taken as read.


  18. #38
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    Default Re: Excel Parking/BW Legal Form N180 *** Discontinued ***

    Thanks for your comments, as you point out they have made many mistakes including the following:

    1. the PCN for parking contravention which occured on the 28th October 2016 (The contrevention date) - Wrong date

    2. The claimant does not intend to reply on the registered keeper liability detailed under the protection of freedoms act 2012

    4. At all material times, the defendant was the registered keeper and / or the driver of the ........... bearing vehicle registration mark ....... - They have the wrong vehicle and VRM.

    5. The claimant submits that the defendant was the driver of the vehicle on the contravention date. - Still no evidence.

    What do I say about 1-4 ? wrong date , wrong vehicle, wrong registration plate ?


  19. #39

    Default Re: Excel Parking/BW Legal Form N180 *** Discontinued ***

    you start off by denying that any monies are owed to the claimant for the following reasons:

    1. neither the defendant nor the vehicle in question were anywhere near the car park on 29/10/2016 and the defendant puts it to strict proof that the claimant furnish any evidence at all of a parking event on that date that lead to a claim for a breach of any condition on the signage present at that date.

    2. Excel originally wrote to the defendant about a parking event on the xxth May 2012 which is before the POFA was entered onto the statute books and as the defendant denies being the driver at that time and as no keeper laibility exists the defendant puts it to strict proof that Excel show who was driving at the time.

    3. the vehicle details given in the claim are not the correct details for the defendants vehicle at that time. the defendant denies any association with the vehicle identified in the claimants witness statement.

    4. the claimant states they are a member of the Independent Parking Committee and adhere to their code of practice. the IPC did not exist in 2012 and their claim to be a member of the Independent Parking Committee is likewise unture, that is the registered name of a private limited company only registered in december 2016 that is not an Accredited Trade Association so they cannot be a menber nor abide by its code of Practice. The owners of the International Parking Community, (an ATA) has threatened legal action against any company claiming such membership as passing themselves off as a member of the latter.

    5 the claimant has failed to show any cause for action against the defendant on the date specified in the claim as they have not created a kepper liability and indeed state that they are not claiming one. however they then go on to state that they are claiming from the keeper when the POFA 2012 specifically disallows this unless certain conditions are met and these have not been met.

    6. The claimant is asking for costs that are any recoverable from the driver as the POFA limits any claim from the keeper to be no more than the amount specified on the Notice to keeper and agin only if specific conditions are met. This means that there is no lawful method of adding the amounts specified in the claimants witness statement ar points 29.2 and 32, where the disparity in the amount claimed is also noted.

    7 the claimant has failed to produce any evidence that a notice to keeper was issued at all. This is in breach of the POFA and also a breach of Civil Procedureicon rules.

    8 In any case, the signage at the site is so porly lauid out and with such small and conficting text and clashing colour it cannot be said that it makse for an offer of a contract to park with certain conditions adn a motorist passing these signs would be unable to consider such an offer. The 100 damages for breach of contract is not part of the core terms of aprking and even then what constitutes a breach of conditions cannot be determined by reading the signage. For this reason the defenadnat states that no such brach occurred and that the contract is unfair and unenforceable


    for all of the above reasons the defendant states that they believe that the claim is totally without foundation and as it contains so many errors in matters of fact it is nothing more than an attempt to use the courts to try and profit from harassment or coercion rather than an attempt to recover an actual debt. for this reason the defendant asks that the claim be struck out in its entirety as being unreasonable conduct and requests a full costs recovery order under CPR 27.14.2(g)


    now what you need to do is put together a bundle of documents and pictures that show the sigange back in 2012 (they ahve apicture you can use, no mentuion of being an IPC member on their sigange so again a breach of the POFA if they insist on saying it was in 2016) and what it looks like today. You take copies of all the correspondence you ahve received in case they realise their cock up and try and resubmit an entirely now claim to get around this glaring error.
    You take some evidence of what vehicle you had at the time so it can be seen that it is not the same reg as the subject of their scribbles.

    You can write a separate document rebutting all of the points that are wrong and submit is with your WS and other evicence. This will allow you to go into detail without detracting from the main points so rubbish them abotu the discounted amount on the sign not being offered, the lack of clairity regarding the siganage

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  20. #40

    Default Re: Excel Parking/BW Legal Form N180 *** Discontinued ***

    now digest the layout of the above and add points to refer to what other documents you wish to rely on and copies of those should be numbered and nicely laid out in order in your evidence bundle.

    Where there is a previous case you can refer to do so in the rebuttal doc and again copy the origianl source material.

    You will need to send a copy of everything to court and to the claimant by the date given to you but dont send it too far in advance to the claimant or they will be changing their story. making sure it arrives on the last date allowable is preferable


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