Marc Gander - The Consumer Survival Handbook


A 220 page introduction to all things consumer related by our own BankFodder.

Includes energy companies, mobile phone providers, retailers, banks, insurance companies,debt collection agencies, reclaim companies, secondhand car sellers, cowboy garages, cowboy builders and all the rest who put their own profits before you.

£6.99



Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

£19.99 + £1.50 (P&P)


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  1. #121
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    Default Re: Lowell claimform - old vanquis debt

    Thanks Andyorch - I've just read through the whole thread and I'll try and offer what assistance I can. I've just read his defence and he has included the statement re LoP.

    I've also just seen the issue with the account numbers/card numbers and incorrect dates on the docs I posted up for him too. I guess (and I am guessing) that it will not be enough for the court to persuade them that the claimant appears to have used, I will use the word, misleading documents?

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  2. #122

    Default Re: Lowell claimform - old vanquis debt

    Very much so.....he does owe monies...amend that statement to......

    " Instead I have received misleading and deceptive documents that may have been manipulated in order to secure a county courticon Judgement against me "

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  3. #123
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    Default Re: Lowell claimform - old vanquis debt

    OK - I'll let him know. I don't want to touch any of the documents here as there are mass documents and I don't know which one to amend. I'll sort that. Can I assume that given you've highlighted only that part of his WS that the rest is ok and good to go for him?

    He's scanned in the statement that they sent him (Lowell) and it's on my desk and I've had a little look through and noticed that the first page has the the right account number (card number) on it - then at the side under the column 'account number' it has the other 16 digit number that they allege is the account number (though he has a statement to prove otherwise). then down at the bottom the under the 'account number' column is changes to a completely different number.

    I'll quickly scan one up and remove pertinent points so you can see what I mean. Sorry to add more comments on this and help my friend make the biggest thread in the world but needs must.

    As you can see, it starts with a 16 digit account number but at the bottom (last 3) it changes and on every other page the change stays the same long number ending 7283.

    I'm not sure why he hasn't mentioned or put this up before but hopefully this helps him somewhat too.

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  4. #124

    Default Re: Lowell claimform - old vanquis debt

    In general the statement looks fine..there is no set way to draft a witness statement providing it complies with the the standard form and layout and finishes with a statement of truth and particularises and supports the initial defence offered.

    But because he is not in receipt of the claimants statement and documents as yet its very much batting in the wind until you know what they will rely on and what arguments they put forward to support their claim.

    If they offer the same documents with the same errors you refer to which they submit under oath as being the true documents then the defendants statement is justified in stating that the claimant is misleading the court with deceptive documents that may have been manipulated in order to secure a county courticon.

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  5. #125
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    Default Re: Lowell claimform - old vanquis debt

    I agree. reading the thread the deadline is this coming friday. He said he was wanting to get it away on Wednesday. They are going to receive it Thur/Fri morning I suspect which means if they don't send theirs then we can't make amendments to his to accommodate any issues.

    If theirs is late then I doubt the court will strike it out just on that and possibly give them another chance. What is the best thing for him to do? Send it and hope they supply the same bumf they have already? My head hurts already, thanks for helping.


  6. #126

    Default Re: Lowell claimform - old vanquis debt

    Whether theirs is late or whether they even bother...thats the importance of drafting a statement that accommodates all eventualities...but not in great detail ...simple paragraphs such as the the claimant has failed to provide a copy of the agreement or if they have provided then it fails to comply with CCA1974 and is therefore unenforceable.

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  7. #127
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    Default Re: Lowell claimform - old vanquis debt

    OK. I can't really do much more now so I'm going to wait until we see him on Wednesday and give him a swift boot behind as it's a total shambles. Thanks to you both for this morning and everything you've done so far.


  8. #128
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    Default Re: Lowell claimform - old vanquis debt

    Hello, I've read the comments and have adapted the statement as required. I'm going to send the statement and all the exhibits I have. Thank you.


  9. #129
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    Default Re: Lowell claimform - old vanquis debt

    Hello, I've sent my witness statement and all the documents I refer to as exhibits but I forgot to sign my statement. Is that going to cause me any problems do you think? I got in a complete muddle and my friend was trying to get the documents all printed off but I forgot to sign it.


  10. #130

    Default Re: Lowell claimform - old vanquis debt

    Which one the courts ...the claimants solicitors ...or both ?

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  11. #131
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    Default Re: Lowell claimform - old vanquis debt

    I sent 3, one for court, solicitors and claimant. I forgot to sign them all. Shall I resend?

    My friend says to email it over to the court and email lowell with it as well?


  12. #132

    Default Re: Lowell claimform - old vanquis debt

    You only send 2 ...Court/Solicitor and 1 for your file...sign and resend otherwise they may not be accepted.

    Are you going to post your final version here for future reference ?

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  13. #133
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    Default Re: Lowell claimform - old vanquis debt

    My friend has just gone to post them at the PO for me. Sorry for my stupidity.


  14. #134
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    Default

    I received their pack first thing this morning.
    They have sent me the same stuff as before and included the postal order I sent for the CCA / CPR (sorry, can't remember which one it was for).

    Just to note, when I originally sent it I forgot to add the postal order so sent it with another letter and that is why they refer to 3 documents.

    They have failed to explain why the account number doesn't match the card number and have actually now referenced the account number in their witness statement as different from the account number they reference in all their other paperwork and the claim formicon.

    The account number on their (let me say, maybe manipulated notice of assignment is 4023********6817 - this is the right one as it matches my statement from vanquis)

    but in his statement he has referenced it as 4023********6542 (this one is in relation to the other Credit Card I had and only appears on their screen shot of the application).

    The application clearly shows the date as being approved on the 15/01/2011 at 12:19 yet the Terms and Conditions are somehow approved two days before that and dated 13/01/2011 at 12:48.

    - They have referenced the account being "the agreement" being 13/01/2011 (not sure how terms and conditions are approved two days before an account is actually applied for
    - their screen shot shows it applied for on the 15/01.

    They have not dealt with any of the errors with figures or even explained the issue with the agreement being dated two days before or the fact that I have proved the account number matches the card number. They even used the right number on the claim form but have got it wrong in their statement.

    I have attached their statement and would be grateful if someone would let me know what they think. I've come down specially to post this up.

    Theirs is dated the 3rd Oct so I don't even know if they have seen mine yet.
    Everything has been sent signed for but I've just checked and it's not been updated yet.

    As I still have until 4pm I think it is, can I send an email to the court to highlight the errors in their witness statement?

    Actually I think I have just seen the issue with the application date and approval.
    On their screen shot the app date is the 13/01 and the approval at the bottom is the 15/01 - does still seem odd though.

    Although, the account number is definitely not right.
    It can't be and an original statement from Vanquis that says "account number" ending 6817 can't lie.

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  15. #135
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    Default Re: Lowell claimform - old vanquis debt

    Hi, just to let you know that Simple (no pun intended) has gone home and I'm going to keep an eye on this for him.
    He's mentioned and left me with their statement which I'm going through and I see he has posted it up.

    It looks very unlikely that Lowell Sols have seen the Witness statement he sent as their envelope was dated yesterday (11th) and on reading it all through properly their exhibits are dated the (10th). They must be referring to the statement of case sent some time back.

    His first one was only posted on the (10th) and I took the signed version yesterday (11th) to re-post.

    They (Flowell) have indeed used the wrong account number on their witness statement.
    I've gone through all their letters during this nonsense which I have now and they all reference the 6817 account number
    - except on the screen shot of the application where it ends 6542.

    Even the NoA - they have now included the DEFAULT NOTICE and that also references the account ending 6817
    - they sent which is worded;

    "Re: Your Vanquis Account: 4023XXXXXXXX6817" - not only does it show the account number once but it is also on it at the top of the noa.

    they have claimed some 25 or so letters were sent to the defendant and that is being denied by him but I know what I would do if I got them...

    Simple has left me with all this and I've scanned the Vanquis statement which clearly shows the right account number and matches the (suspect noa and also every other piece of toilet roll they have produced) but the paralegal has referenced the account number on the application which is wrong.

    I'm sorry if I have repeated what he said as I am trying to get to grips with this.

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  16. #136

    Default Re: Lowell claimform - old vanquis debt

    Statements will have crossed in the post....now if there is anything to add/argue after digesting the above you can submit a Supplemental Statement with additional evidence...this must be submitted not less than 3 days before the hearing.


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  17. #137
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    Default Re: Lowell claimform - old vanquis debt

    Thanks Andy. I'm going to go over it all and try and draft a supp statement.

    I'll get it posted up before it's sent. I'm away for a few days for work next week so it may be the back end of the week before I get it sorted.

    I know it has been a challenge to support Simple but given his age and lack of knowledge and especially computer skills he's done ok. He won't mind me saying he gets a little flustered with it all.

    Cheers,

    Pete


  18. #138
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    Default Re: Lowell claimform - old vanquis debt

    Hi, I've had a chance to go through their WS and I've drafted this supplemental.

    In the county courticon
    Case Number:
    Date: 13th October 2018
    _________________________ _________________________ ______________
    Parties Lowell Portfolio I LTD Claimant
    Defendant
    _________________________ _________________________ _________________________ _________________________
    Supplemental Witness Statement – ME
    Exhibit References: XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX
    _________________________ _________________________ _________________________ _______
    I ME, am the defendant in this case. Lowell Portfolio I Limited have issued a claim for an alleged credit card agreement between myself and Vanquis Bank. I make this additional supplemental statement in preparation for the small claimsicon hearing fixed for the 26th October 2018 at 10:30.

    Further to my Witness Statement dated the 10th October 2018 I respectfully request that this be allowed as I have now received the evidence pack from the claimant’s solicitors and wish to respectfully point out a few additional but pertinent points.
    _________________________ _________________________ _________________________ _______
    Sir / Madam,

    I wish to make additional statements in relation to the Witness Statement sent by Lowell Solicitors, dated 03rd October 2018, received 12th October 2018.

    Point 3 of the Witness Statement refers to “the agreement” dated 13th January 2011 between myself and Vanquis Bank Limited. I wish to point out that their witness statement refers to the wrong account number 4023XXXXXXXX542 – this is exhibited as “XX1” on their witness statement.

    With my respect to the court, the claimant has failed to provide the right account number to which the claim refers in their statement. All the documentation, which includes the alleged Notice of Assignment, Notice of Default and the Default Notice which has been disclosed in their witness pack all refer to the account number 4023 XXXX XXXX 6817.

    I have proved beyond any doubt that the account number ends 6817 with the Vanquis Account Statement – Exhibit XX and why it is necessary for the account number and card number to match.

    Point 6 refers to the Notice of Assignment to which they exhibit as “XX” which clearly shows the “account number” at the top of the letter and also the heading “Re: Your Vanquis Account: 4023XXXXXXXX6817”. The claimant is put to strict proof to show how they have been able to disclose a completely different account number than the one on the original creditors own statement. (NOTE: FOR THE AVOIDANCE OF DOUBT, THE ACCOUNT NUMBER IS ON THE PAGE TWICE )

    Also, as the claimant has exhibited what appears to be a screen capture of the account application which is the only document to show the wrong account number, they are put to strict proof to provide the original application as that document can not be genuine given my exhibit XX which shows otherwise (NOTE: I REFER HERE TO THE VANQUIS STATEMENT SIMPLE POSTED UP).

    Point 8 refers to 29 letters being sent to myself between 25th April 2014 and 20 November 2017 – I never received any such communications from Lowell Portfolio or Lowell Solicitors until the claim formicon arrived. This was the first opportunity I had to question the alleged debt and Lowell failed to provide the requested documentation within the requirements of the consumer crediticon Act 1974.

    The claimant is put to strict proof to show all 29 letters to which they refer as it is my belief that this statement is wholly inaccurate and is intended to mislead the court and myself.

    I previously questioned the debt with Lewis Debt Recovery in January 2012 and nothing was ever heard back, and Lewis Debt Recovery never made contact again.

    Point 9 refers to the defendant failing to respond to correspondence. I never received this correspondence but wish to point out that the writer of the statement has sent a letter as an exhibit which clearly references a different account number to the one referenced in his/her statement, it also states that I entered into an agreement with the original creditor on the 15/01/2011 yet their statement in Point 3 of their witness statement documents it was the 13/01/2011 and equally as importantly it documents the account being sold on the 04 August 2013. They even show in this letter on the Statement of Account that the “period of statement” being 04 August 2013 to 18/12/17 – They have exhibited this document as XX.




    CONCLUSION

    Sir / Madam,
    The statement provided by the claimant’s solicitor/s has only amplified my defence in that the claimant has provided documentation to myself which does not comply with the requirements set out in the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and is therefore unenforceable.

    Given all the errors before the claimant’s witness statement was received and now the additional errors of referring to the wrong account number, all their paperwork and alleged letters referring to an account number ending 6817 and also explicitly showing the account to have been sold to them on the 04/08/2013 and even providing statement from 04/08/2013 to 18/12/17 which actually implies that the Notice of Assignment exhibited and sent is indeed not genuine as they couldn't have sent a notice of assignment before 04/08/2013 according to their paperwork and statement of account.

    With my sincere respect, it is my belief that some of the documents may have been adapted and or manipulated. The claimant’s solicitors have sent a witness statement under oath that the facts stated in the statement are true and it is astoundingly clear that some are not, and they have even exhibited these.

    It is my belief that I have proved that these documents are not only non-compliant but also not genuine and appear given all the errors to have been manipulated for the purposes of this claim.

    The claimant has failed to disclose the required true copies of all the documents as requested under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and has instead provided misleading, inaccurate paperwork which doesn’t even match their own witness statement.

    I believe that everyone makes mistakes on occasion but in this instance, it is before a court of law and under oath and appears to be with the intention to deceive. This case has error after error and I respectfully ask that the claimants witness statement and case be struck out given the above and that all costs of defending this case be awarded to myself. It is also my intention to bring all these errors to the attention of the Solicitors Regulation Authority and the Financial Conduct Authority.

    Statement of truth.
    I believe that the facts in this statement are true.

    Let me know please what you think. I haven't done one of these before and trying to do it on someone else's behalf isn't easy either. I'm happy to scan in and show the documents I've referred to they have quite frankly, cocked up.


  19. #139
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    Default Re: Lowell claimform - old vanquis debt

    Hi, I've just got back and wondering if there are any thoughts on the above I drafted for Simple?

    Cheers, Pete


  20. #140

    Default Re: Lowell claimform - old vanquis debt

    I will try to run through it later....its been a mad 2 days.


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