Marc Gander - The Consumer Survival Handbook


A 220 page introduction to all things consumer related by our own BankFodder.

Includes energy companies, mobile phone providers, retailers, banks, insurance companies,debt collection agencies, reclaim companies, secondhand car sellers, cowboy garages, cowboy builders and all the rest who put their own profits before you.

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Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

£19.99 + £1.50 (P&P)


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  1. #1
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    Default Jacobs say I've 'broken arrangement' when I haven't

    Please help, I am at my wit's end.

    I contact Jacobs on behalf of my mother, who is disabled and mentally ill.
    I also cannot say all of the details because she isn't entirely open with me, somehow she has incurred Council Tax debts, we have been making payments to the enforcement company Jacobs since April 2017.

    These payments started after my mother had ignored the debt for so long, that bailiffs visited our address. I had to pay them a sum of money (somewhere in the region of 300, which I had to go into my overdraft for and am still facing the repercussions for to this day) to get them to leave our property. They did not take any items, and they did not make an inventory of items.

    I have been making payments each month of 20 since the end of July on my mother's behalf. Before that, we were paying more than we could afford - after sending off evidence of my mother's disabilities and low income, they agreed to let us pay 20 per month.

    Unfortunately, in December, we were unable to make the payment, I paid double on the 15th of January 2018 (40) thinking this would be okay. The next thing I know, I have several missed calls from a mobile phone number and a voice mail ordering me to contact Jacobs before they send bailiffs to our address.

    The woman on the phone was awful - she goaded me to a point where I lost my temper, and insulted her. She was threatening to send bailiffs who would enter the property with or without my consent, threatening to send my mother to prison, and would not take 'we can't afford this' for an answer.

    On the 18th January, we had to pay 159.25 (which left us in an awful financial situation) to stop bailiffs coming to the address (as we had children on the property and I would rather starve for a few weeks than have them deal with that).

    From that point I set-up another arrangement so that we would begin paying 20 per month again, starting February 10th 2018, to be paid the 10th of every month thereafter. I made the payment on the 10th, and have a reference number for it.

    Today, we received letters dated February 9th claiming the agreement has been broken. I called Jacobs and the agent on the phone said I would have to contact collections, as according to their records, I should have paid the 20 on February 1st.

    He claimed that this is because there were 31 days since our last payment, which is absolutely not true. Between January 15th and February 10th, there are only 26 days.

    The phone number he gave me was for the same woman I had to speak to last time - I called her, and she was as belligerent and unhelpful as the time before. She said texts had been sent (not received) reminding us to pay, and said she would need to listen to our last call to ensure I hadn't agreed the 1st before she could do anything else.

    Surprise, surprise, there was no record of that call, and they're taking their own word over mine (despite the fact that I would not arrange to make payment on a day that we have no money in an account to pay with).

    We cannot afford to pay the charge they are asking for (in the region of 600) and we cannot have bailiffs visiting the property, as we have two young children (both under 6-years-old) in our care due to it being the school holidays.

    No matter how many times I ask to speak to a manager or someone other than her, this woman will not take the case further. So we're to expect to have people turn up at the property tomorrow to remove goods.

    Please, any advice you have would be much appreciated. I don't know how much more of this I can take.

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Jacobs say I've 'broken arrangement' when I haven't

    erm..
    are you living at your mothers property..??
    or is she now living with you then??

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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Jacobs say I've 'broken arrangement' when I haven't

    We live together in a rented property.


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Jacobs say I've 'broken arrangement' when I haven't

    so this must be historic CTAX debts from before she did live with you?

    dx

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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Jacobs say I've 'broken arrangement' when I haven't

    I'd imagine so.

    I can't go into great detail as there is a lot she won't share with me
    (hence not finding out we owed Jacobs until bailiffs turned up
    - this is due to the mental health issues she has).

    We lost my childhood home in 2015,
    so I'd imagine the council tax debts are from that property.

    She stopped paying mortgageicon and all sorts until we were forcefully evicted out of the property.

    We are renting now.


  6. #6
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    Default Re: Jacobs say I've 'broken arrangement' when I haven't

    Here is something to be getting on with.
    .
    First of all establish from the Council how much was owing etc
    .
    You need to speak to someone at the Council and ask the following questions:

    1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you
    2 - the dates they were obtained
    3 - the addresses they were for
    4 - the period of time each covers
    5 - how much each one was for
    6 - how much is still outstanding
    7 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement
    8 - the dates & amounts of any payments

    ......................... ..
    .
    Next you need to send off for a breakdown of the charges the Bailiff applied.
    .
    Here's an example,
    use and ADAPT at will and best sent initially by email backed up by a copy in the post.
    .
    "From:
    My Name
    My Address
    .
    To:
    Acme Bailiff Co
    Bailiff House
    .
    Ref: Account No: 123456
    .
    Dear Sir
    .
    With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.
    .
    This includes:
    a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.
    b - the reason for the fee.
    c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.
    d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were Certificated at.
    e - the date of the Certification.
    .
    This is NOT a Subject access requesticon
    uest under the Data Protection Act S7 1998
    so does not incur a fee of 10. You are obliged to provide this information.
    .
    I require this information within 14 days.
    .
    Yours faithfully
    .
    Ripped off customer"
    .

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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Jacobs say I've 'broken arrangement' when I haven't

    Thank you for this.

    I have contacted the council,
    who have told me that once they pass details onto Jacobs,
    it is all out of their hands and I can only contact Jacobs.

    I did ask the council lady to give me the details you listed though,
    but she said Jacobs have likely added charges since,
    so I'm not sure how useful the information is.

    She advised me to call Jacobs and ask to speak to their wellfare team,
    but at this point,
    I don't think there'll be anything we can do to stop the bailiffs coming to the house.

    I will send an email/letter using the template you provided though.

    Thanks again for your time and help, I really appreciate it.


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Jacobs say I've 'broken arrangement' when I haven't

    well then the council lady is WRONG
    you need to demand those details from them.
    its the LAW.

    as for the bailiff
    I think you indicate you let him in
    but he did nothing
    and you signed nothing?

    if that's the case
    there is NO right of entry as he has nothing to enforce
    so tell him out a window to go away
    and FILM HIM ON YOUR MOBILE PHONE.

    it looks to me they are trying to trick you into extra 325 fees for missed arrangement dates etc etc

    the COUNCIL employ the bailiffs
    and their actions are the COUNCILS problem.

    pers i'd go ring up the CEO !!

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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Jacobs say I've 'broken arrangement' when I haven't

    The Council are responsible for the actions of their agents Jacobs, and have to provide the information requested. It might be worth initiating a Formal Complaint to Head of Revenues, the Council CEO, and Elected Leader, CC your MP initially by email with hard copies sent with a free proof of posting.

    I would keep any motor vehicles well away for the time being, Jacobs are incorrigible clampers and will clamp any motor, they have form for taking and selling third party cars as well.

    The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!
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  10. #10
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    Default

    Thank you for your advice.
    I honestly just feel so defeated.

    I've spent the whole day on the phone, being bounced around from place to place, and having this Jacobs woman speak to me like I'm an absolute idiot and I feel like I just have nowhere else to turn, but to send letters and emails that aren't going to be looked at in time for to stop the bailiffs coming.

    I can't find contact details for the CEO, and the council just didn't seem interested when I did ring.

    There was one nice woman who put me through to the enforcement but then after that point, they just don't want to listen, and I get sent back to Jacobs, who constantly talk over me, disconnect my calls if I take so much as a second to breathe whilst talking ('this call isn't going anywhere' is what they say), and insist there's nothing they can do unless I pay them this 600.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Jacobs say I've 'broken arrangement' when I haven't

    CEOemail.com
    which council is it please

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  12. #12
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    Default Re: Jacobs say I've 'broken arrangement' when I haven't

    Quote Originally Posted by flipsandslips View Post

    I contacted Jacobs on behalf of my mother, who is disabled and mentally ill. I also cannot say all of the details because she isn't entirely open with me, somehow she has incurred Council Tax debts, we have been making payments to the enforcement company Jacobs since April 2017.

    These payments started after my mother had ignored the debt for so long, that bailiffs visited our address. I had to pay them a sum of money (somewhere in the region of 300. They did not take any items, and they did not make an inventory of items.

    I have been making payments each month of 20 since the end of July on my mother's behalf. Before that, we were paying more than we could afford - after sending off evidence of my mother's disabilities and low income, they agreed to let us pay 20 per month.

    Unfortunately, in December, we were unable to make the payment, I paid double on the 15th of January 2018 (40) thinking this would be okay. The next thing I know, I have several missed calls from a mobile phone number and a voice mail ordering me to contact Jacobs before they send bailiffs to our address.

    On the 18th January, we had to pay 159.25 (which left us in an awful financial situation) to stop bailiffs coming to the address (as we had children on the property and I would rather starve for a few weeks than have them deal with that).

    From that point I set-up another arrangement so that we would begin paying 20 per month again, starting February 10th 2018, to be paid the 10th of every month thereafter. I made the payment on the 10th, and have a reference number for it. Today, we received letters dated February 9th claiming the agreement has been broken. I called Jacobs and the agent on the phone said I would have to contact collections, as according to their records, I should have paid the 20 on February 1st.
    I am sorry to be brutally honest here but the title of your thread is not accurate. After providing evidence to Jacobs, of your mothers financial and health circumstance, they agreed to accept a payment arrangement of 20 per month which appeared to have been set up at the end of July. Unfortunately, you defaulted on that agreement in December. I appreciate what you have said about paying 'double' the following month but the fact still remains, that you defaulted.

    From what you have said in your opening post, an enforcement agent had previously visited the property and no goods belonging to your mother were identified and an inventory had not been made. That particular visit would have incurred and 'enforcement fee' of 235. There can be no circumstances at all where a further 'enforcement fee' can be added. That fee may only be added once.

    I would suggest that you take the advice of the local authority and write to Jacob's Welfare Department. From experience, their Welfare Dept is very reasonable indeed.

    PS: I note that you have set up another payment arrangement. However, this is something that you have done without the agreement of Jacobs so please don't assume that it will be accepted. Nonetheless, until you hear otherwise, please ensure that you make payments and most importantly, ensure that you do not default a second time.


  13. #13
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    Default Re: Jacobs say I've 'broken arrangement' when I haven't

    Quote Originally Posted by dx100uk View Post

    It looks to me they are trying to trick you into extra 325 fees for missed arrangement dates etc etc

    i'd go ring up the CEO !!
    As you will see from my above detailed reply, an enforcement fee of 235 would have been charged last year when the enforcement agent made the personal visit. There are no circumstances where a further 'enforcement fee' (of 235) can be added.

    Secondly, it is regrettable that the OP had actually defaulted in December on the payment arrangement of just 20 per month. I have calculated that the debt would have been approx 1,100 so a payment arrangement for 20 per month was exceptionally good. Accordingly, I cannot see the merit of a complaint being made to the Chief Executive of the local authority.


  14. #14
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    Default Re: Jacobs say I've 'broken arrangement' when I haven't

    No,
    the first time we did default (the December),
    I am talking about this month (February).

    When I called in January to rearrange the payment plan,
    we agreed I would pay on the 10th of every month, starting February 10th.

    I paid on February 10th.
    Jacobs then sent me a letter dated 9th February (which we received today, 12th) to say I had failed to make payment, which wasn't true, because I'd paid on the 10th. This time, we did not break the arrangement.

    They said over the phone that they had sent texts to both me and my mother on the 1st of February reminding us to make a payment.

    The only text I received was on the 7th February, reminding me I would have to pay soon, because as far as I was concerned, the 10th February was the day I had to make a payment. When I mention this on the phone, however, they say the text sent on the 7th was part of a 'grace period'. Why you would send someone a text six days late reminding them to make a payment is beyond me.

    It is obvious that they also agreed the 10th would be our new payment date, have made an improper record of the fact, can no longer find a recording of the phone callicon in which this agreement was made as 'proof', and so rather than accept any liability, now expect us to pay 600 for failing to make a payment, even though we didn't.

    They had money off us two days ago, as per the arrangement I made in January.
    We did not default a second time...


  15. #15
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    Default Re: Jacobs say I've 'broken arrangement' when I haven't

    Thank you for your additional post. Given your mothers 'vulnerability', I would suggest that you email the Welfare Department in the morning. Please do post back with an update.


  16. #16
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    Default Re: Jacobs say I've 'broken arrangement' when I haven't

    looks like they expected cleare3d funds before the 10th, anything paid in on 10th might not show as cleared funds until 13th.

    The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!
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  17. #17
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    Default Re: Jacobs say I've 'broken arrangement' when I haven't

    Quote Originally Posted by brassnecked View Post
    looks like they expected cleared funds before the 10th, anything paid in on 10th might not show as cleared funds until 13th.
    A excellent point BN.


  18. #18
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    Default Re: Jacobs say I've 'broken arrangement' when I haven't

    Quote Originally Posted by Bailiff Advice View Post
    Thank you for your additional post. Given your mothers 'vulnerability', I would suggest that you email the Welfare Department in the morning. Please do post back with an update.
    So this morning, we had another family member come to the house for additional support as we were fully expecting the bailiffs to arrive.

    Meanwhile, we called Jacobs who (despite numerous calls yesterday and requests for my mother to be treated as a vulnerable person) eventually allowed us to send the medical evidence via their email address.

    All of that evidence was put onto the account this morning.
    Because the enforcement agent assigned to our case refused to take any of our calls, one of the call center agents had to process it all instead.

    Within about thirty minutes of them confirming receipt of all that evidence, I received a text with the number for the Wellfare Team.

    We have arranged a new monthly payment agreement, and I think the bailiffs have been stopped from coming to the property in the meantime.

    If they do show up at some point today however, we're prepared and know our rights. We have both doors locked.

    Thank you to everyone who offered advice.
    This has been the most stressful 48 hours for us...
    I am just hoping and praying nothing like this ever happens again.

    Now I have a text confirming our new payment date/arrangement, I'm hoping we won't have the same problem again.

    Thanks again, everyone.


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    Default Re: Jacobs say I've 'broken arrangement' when I haven't

    Thank you for updating the forum. As I mentioned in my above post (post number 12), I find Jacob's Welfare Department to be very reasonable indeed and I am pleased that your query was dealt with very speedily.

    It is vitally important for you to ensure that payments reach Jacobs in cleared funds by the due date.


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    Default Re: Jacobs say I've 'broken arrangement' when I haven't

    Which means if due on Friday, try to pay on tuesday at the latest.

    The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!
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