Can anyone help on this issue.

About 3 years ago I put a cigarette out when unexpectedly being called into a shopping centre.

I shouldn't have, and I got caught by council enforcer.

At the time, I was going through a very difficult break up, and was homeless as a result effectively.

I am self employed on a low income, and could not claim tax credits as the previous relationship I was in meant my name is still on the deeds

effectively its my home to the tax credits people

they said I was still living there,

even though I wasn't.

Hadn't for 7 years.

I had spent my time travelling around ,

and staying with clients, friends, the new girlfriend I had, and my brother.

My reasonable income and security was effectively taken when the Banks called my business loan and overdraft in when they got in trouble, as they did to a lot of self employed.

Stupidly I remortgaged and that's a drag too.

still have to pay it so my ex doesn't get evicted.

And just surviving off the little I earned.

Very difficult to do my books as its all a mess

and I have nowhere I can do them properly atm despite being under the tax threshold

I still have responsibility to do them but that is difficult in the circumstances.

I had a big row with my brother 3 years ago as I was staying there.

We don't speak.

He just put return to sender on any of my mail that came there, which was mostly junk. But apparently he has discovered they have been chasing me for a fine as a bailiff company told him. He pointed out that it wasnt him and I haven't lived there and we don't speak. He is demanding to know where I am living so he can pass it on to me. I had completely forgotten about it and now its about £1500 as it went to court and everything.

There is no way I can pay it, prove my very low income, or effective homelessness (I am staying with two lots of very kind friends free, and don't want the bailiffs knocking on their door).

So what can I do? I am told I could even be arrested for it? This is terrifying me as I only have a subsistence living and cannot pay it and cant prove my income atm . I never received any notification of the court date three years ago and had forgotten all about it. They are looking for me but dont know where I am obviously and neither does my brother. I dont want to get him in trouble either, so can I approach the Court or what? If I had known re the court date obviously I would have paid when it was low.

If a fixed penalty notice is not paid, then within 6 months the council can ask Magistrates to consider further action.

I should imagine you ended up with a Magistrates court fine, which if they ( court bailiffs) caught up with you and you then failed to attend court, yes you could be arrested. It would basically be contempt of court by not following the courts instructions to attend to explain why you were not paying.

Probably best that you look to deal with this. You can attend the Magistrates court, swear a statutory declaration, that you never received any Magistrates summons, explain your personal situation and then hopefully receive a hearing to decide on the way forward. If Magistrates accept your declaration based on your circumstances, then the amount of fine may be reviewed and you would not have the bailiff costs.

If you don't deal with it, then it won't go away and they will catch up with you eventually. Deal with it now and get it resolved. You may find a Citizens Advice near the court or a rep at the court who might be able to help you if required. If you have any documents that confirm your situation and about your finances, take them to the court with you.

Yes it was the other side of the country.

I never go there and its a fortune to get there.

can I email them or something?

And no.

I have no paperwork that is the problem.

Not for the court or fine or anything...

and not for my income which is meagre.

I didn't even get the fixed penalty fine unless my brother sent it back return to sender because it was a few days after we had a big fight.

Just go to your nearest Magistrates court and they should be able to help you.

You will need some form of ID to confirm who you are.

Magistrates will have a process for dealing with something on behalf of another court elsewhere in the country.

You are not expected to travel back to the court that dealt with it originally.

my only option appears to be to travel hundreds of miles,

on money I haven't got,

to plead for something on a basis I can't prove,

to be arrested when they say no because I cant afford to pay it.

I guess I will be better off just waiting for them to catch up with me atm.

I didn't see your second response Uncle B.

Could they just arrest me there though?

I feel so nervous

I have never done anything wrong in my life.

£1500 for dropping a cigarette butt. Seems excessive.

Meanwhile criminals get off with a caution?

What kind of justice is that?)

Unlikely if you are being seen to be dealing with it.

On the other hand, not dealing with it

(& just posting negatives about why it is still unfair and why you won’t deal with it)

will pretty much guarantee you’ll have bailiffs working on behalf of HMCTS catch up with you eventually, and if you blank / frustrate / avoid them, eventually it will reach a warrant / arrest stage.

Take a step back. As well as considering your viewpoint, look at the court’s viewpoint.

As far as they see it, you might not have been aware of events, or you might be deliberately not engaging.

Once you become aware of events you have a way forward (the statutory declaration).

If you’ve become aware and don’t use that statutory declaration route : it looks like evasion.

Not making the statutory declaration ‘promptly’ can also mean the court can decide not to re-open / re-hear the case.

So, be sensible. Take the advice offered.

I feel so nervous and I have never done anything wrong in my life. £1500 for dropping a cigarette butt. Seems excessive. Meanwhile criminals get off with a caution? What kind of justice is that?

It won’t be £1500 if you get the clock reset by a statutory declaration.

Don’t try going down the “criminals get off with a caution” route though. The court is only allowed to be interested in your case when dealing with it, so such claims aren’t relevant, but if you are “displaying attitude” it can’t help your case.

(In a similar vein, do people stopped for traffic offences really think telling the police officer “shouldn’t you be out catching real criminals?” will help?)

I feel so nervous and I have never done anything wrong in my life. £1500 for dropping a cigarette butt. Seems excessive. Meanwhile criminals get off with a caution? What kind of justice is that?

Offences of dropping litter

The Environmental Protection Act 1990 (EPA 1990), s 87, makes it an offence to throw down, drop or otherwise deposit and then leave, litter in any place in the open air.

The Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005 (CNEA 2005), s 27, amends the offence to include in the definition of litter discarded ends of cigarettes, cigars and the remains of other products designed for chewing. It also extended the powers of local authorities to tackle littering.

Those caught dropping litter under s 87 of EPA 1990 will be guilty of a criminal offence and liable to a maximum fine of £2,500.

Whether you like it or not, YOU are a criminal.

Don’t keep avoiding this, deal with it as suggested above before it gets out of hand.

 

He just put return to sender on any of my mail that came there, which was mostly junk.

 

But apparently he has discovered they have been chasing me for a fine as a bailiff company told him. He pointed out that it wasnt him and I haven't lived there and we don't speak. He is demanding to know where I am living so he can pass it on to me. I had completely forgotten about it and now its about £1500 as it went to court and everything.

This enquiry should be in the bailiff section of the forum. I have sent a message to one of the moderators.

Thread moved to the appropriate forum...please continue to post here to your thread.

Regards

Andy

 

About 3 years ago I put a cigarette out when unexpectedly being called into a shopping centre. I shouldn't have, and I got caught by a paramilitary council enforcer thug.

 

At the time, I was going through a very difficult break up, and was homeless as a result effectively. I am self employed on a low income, and could not claim

 

So, I had a big row with my brother 3 years ago as I was staying there. We don't speak.

 

He just put return to sender on any of my mail that came there, which was mostly junk. But apparently he has discovered they have been chasing me for a fine as a bailiff company told him. He pointed out that it wasnt him and I haven't lived there and we don't speak. He is demanding to know where I am living so he can pass it on to me. I had completely forgotten about it and now its about £1500 as it went to court and everything.

 

I am told I could even be arrested for it? This is terrifying me as I only have a subsistence living and cannot pay it and cant prove my income atm . I never received any notification of the court date three years ago and had forgotten all about it.

 

They are looking for me but dont know where I am obviously and neither does my brother. I dont want to get him in trouble either, so can I approach the Court or what?

I have edited your question so that it only deals with the court fine.

Almost certainly the bailiff company will be Marston Holdings.

Secondly, if the enforcement company cannot locate you at your brother address, then the account will be passed to their 'tracing department'. It may be the case that they identify an address or phone number for you. If they don't, then the warrant will be returned back to the court.

It does appear to me that the correct course of action that you should be taking is to apply to the Magistrates Court for an appointment for what is called a Section 14 Statutory Declaration. You need to contact a court local to you. The problem that you have is that you would need to know some details about which court had convicted you (in your absence). Has you brother given you any details?

PS: Your query is a very simple one to resolve so please try not to worry.

Hi. Well I do worry, and I do think it profoundly unfair.

I have no confidence in a system that allows such.

On top of all my other worries, being called a criminal for being poor, is not helpful.

Hi. Well I do worry, and I do think it profoundly unfair.

I have no confidence in a system that allows such.

 

On top of all my other worries, being called a criminal for being poor, is not helpful.

I thought you were being called a criminal for the criminal offence of littering.

What has being poor got to do with it? A rich person prosecuted (& found guilty) for the same would be as guilty of the offence as a poor person.