Marc Gander - The Consumer Survival Handbook


A 220 page introduction to all things consumer related by our own BankFodder.

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Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Early Probation Termination

    2 employemt lawyers interested?
    ask them if they are so certain of your case they will work on a contingency basis and I bet I know the answer.

    To put it bluntly you have been told what is what,
    even if your employer then considers your appeal (as it must should you make one) they arent gong to change their minds and wont have broken any law.

    My advice is to accept that it isnt working and go on fairly amicable terms as you arent going to get anything else as far as cash goes and dragging this out will only make your life harder.

    If CAB believe that due process hasnt been followed did they quote chapter and verse?
    Again, I bet not.

    ACAS used to use a lot of people who were professionally involved in employment matters (academics teaching law for example) as they were often slow to respond to requests
    but what you got was good
    but as said they seem to have a helpdesk type approach nowadays that may certainly be a lot quicker but probably limited in depth of knowledge.

    What do you want from this?
    Your job back?
    sorry, not going to happen.

    Your employer to say "sorry we didnt recognise your talents"
    well, if they didnt then your talents were wasted on them anyway.

    Dismissal is hard to swallow
    but as already said,
    we dont believe that you did anything wrong
    just that it wasnt working out
    and if you are honest with yourself
    you probably wouldnt have stopped there in the long term anyway.

    We would all like to leave at our own volition
    but as the company indicated it was using a probabtion period ( means nothing in law)
    at least it wasnt really somehting that could be said to be totally out of the blue.

    I will reiterate what I said earlier
    - nothing to fight over as they have done enough to see off any claim
    and you would be wise to discuss what sort of reference they are likely to give if anything other than the anodyne worked here from.... to... in the position of....

    Lastly I dont think Sangie wasnt being aggressive with you,
    she was just rather frustrated that other advice you seem keen to want to be true is being given
    when some of those agenices should know better and you are applying more weight to it than you should.


  2. #22
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    Default Re: Early Probation Termination

    Quote Originally Posted by Sangie595 View Post
    "Thank you for taking the time to reply but please try to be a bit less aggressive - can I please ask what your professional experience is?

    .......

    The ball is now in my court but I would still appreciate information from others."

    I would call both those things "demands". Where are they asking for the professional experience of others? Aren't they saying "anyone but you reply"? That is deliberately insulting and dressing it up as a "request" doesn't make it polite...

    I think this reply is all that's needed, we obviously have different ideas of what demand means.


  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curly109 View Post
    Thank you for taking the time to reply but please try to be a bit less aggressive - can I please ask what your professional experience is?

    As it stands Acas and after todays visit, CAB have advised that I use my employers appeal process as they both believe that Due Process has not been followed.
    This has also been supported online by two advisory HR practioners and in addition 2 Employment law firms are interested in the chain of events I have submitted.

    The ball is now in my court but I would still appreciate information from others.
    Wow! Sounds like you got it totally sorted and the employer will be quivering with fear now you have proved that Employment Law is on your side.

    Just one more thing. Get yourself to court/tribunal and test it.

    Donít forget to let us know how you get on!


  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudzulu View Post
    I think this reply is all that's needed, we obviously have different ideas of what demand means.
    You obviously have a different idea of what polite means too.

    I wasn't aggressive.

    Believe me, if I were to be aggressive you would know about it.
    What I am is correct.

    I have decades of employment law experience, and I tell people what they need to know (what they asked about), not what they would like to hear.

    If you only want to hear that you are right,
    then say so up front and anyone who wants to tell you that can do so.

    But don't ask questions when your aren't prepared to hear the answers.
    This one really isn't all that hard either.

    A decent Google search will tell you that I am correct.

    No lawyer required.


  5. #25
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    Default Re: Early Probation Termination

    Sangie is of course correct (as always) for what it's worth I too am Employment Law Qualified

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  6. #26
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    Firstly thank you all for your advice

    Sangie595 - You opened your comments with "No. You don't understand." which I do find aggressive for someone who is asking a genuine question.

    In addition to this as pointed out by Spudzulu I never demanded anything from you and my question on asking your experience was again genuine.

    There are a lot of self-appointed experts on the internet who read something once then regurgitate it thinking they are the bees.

    As you your post count is less than 600 and I am a new visitor how am I to know that you are an expert or that this is your field of expertise.

    The help and comments you have given are valuable but remember you offer the advice on here willingly and a lot of the questions may be raised by people who are desperate for support. The last thing they need is to feel they are being spoken down to.

    If you are not prepared to accept that they may not understand then perhaps this is not for you.

    As for aggressive " I have plenty to do without imposing my legally correct advice on people who don't want to hear it" only reiterates my point.

    Give the great support but a bit of courtesy wouldn't go amiss

    Disgruntled

    I used to be a member on this site for many years and some of the information provided was invaluable and helped me resolve a few issues.

    Coming back it's keyboard warriors such as you that remind me why I stopped using it.

    There may be people who are nervous about posting that choose not to for fear of reading sarcastic comments and ridicule by clowns such as you.

    The only thing you achieve by your posting is to reduce the worth of this great site and to be counterproductive to what this site is trying to achieve - helping people.

    I am sure you will reply as your type of attention seeker always does - just a shame that the Mods on here can't do something about sad individuals like you who offer nothing.

    Once again thank you to all who replied (Sangie-Ell-enn I have taken on board your comments and appreciate the advice)


  7. #27
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    Default Re: Early Probation Termination

    Quote Originally Posted by Curly109 View Post
    Firstly thank you all for your advice

    Sangie595 - You opened your comments with "No. You don't understand." which I do find aggressive for someone who is asking a genuine question. No, I did not. I had replied previously, and those were the opening comments. What I said is not aggressive. It is a statement of fact. No. You don't understand.

    In addition to this as pointed out by Spudzulu I never demanded anything from you and my question on asking your experience was again genuine. In that case, why did you not ask everyone else for their credentials?

    There are a lot of self-appointed experts on the internet who read something once then regurgitate it thinking they are the bees.Of which, it would appear, you are one. You have repeatedly insisted the law says things it does not say! But again, you questioned the credentials of nobody else. And if you actually want an "expert" you don't look on an anonymous website. You pay for it.

    As you your post count is less than 600 and I am a new visitor how am I to know that you are an expert or that this is your field of expertise. Since you were reading that closely you will have noticed that Ethel, whose advice you liked, and in fact quoted, has fewer posts than I have. Why did you not question her credentials? Because you liked her opinion?

    The help and comments you have given are valuable but remember you offer the advice on here willingly and a lot of the questions may be raised by people who are desperate for support. The last thing they need is to feel they are being spoken down to. No. You are touchy and over sensitive about things that were never said or implied. You launched an aggressive and quite offensive attack on me simply because you could and you wanted to. You are the only person who read a statement of fact, that you were not understanding something, as a personal attack. It couldn't possibly be you that is at fault here, could it?

    If you are not prepared to accept that they may not understand then perhaps this is not for you. That is a gross misstatement. I said you didn't understand and then went on to explain it again for you. "This" for your information, is what i do for a living - and I get no complaints from the people i represent. Perhaps because the listen to what they are told and don't try to argue black is white because the advice isn't to their liking? Perhaps asking people for advice is not for you?

    As for aggressive " I have plenty to do without imposing my legally correct advice on people who don't want to hear it" only reiterates my point. No it doesn't. That was a response to a totally uncalled for attack by you.

    Give the great support but a bit of courtesy wouldn't go amiss Wow. Kettle, pot, black. You have not once apologised for your uncalled for discourtesy. You are the one who attacked me!]]

    Disgruntled

    I used to be a member on this site for many years and some of the information provided was invaluable and helped me resolve a few issues. Do what?

    Coming back it's keyboard warriors such as you that remind me why I stopped using it. The person attacking me was you! You are the keyboard worrier here. And now you are attacking the site? Why did you come back then?

    There may be people who are nervous about posting that choose not to for fear of reading sarcastic comments and ridicule by clowns such as you. That is extremely offensive and once again you demonstrate that it is you who are the problem

    The only thing you achieve by your posting is to reduce the worth of this great site and to be counterproductive to what this site is trying to achieve - helping people. Again, extremely offensive and uncalled for. And a few minutes ago you were having a go at the site. Now its great?

    I am sure you will reply as your type of attention seeker always does - just a shame that the Mods on here can't do something about sad individuals like you who offer nothing. So you want to be even more offensive

    Once again thank you to all who replied (Sangie-Ell-enn I have taken on board your comments and appreciate the advice)
    Just for information....now i am being aggressive....i am beginning to think that i understand why your employers got shut of you. A lucky escape for them, i suspect.


  8. #28
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    Default Re: Early Probation Termination

    For someone who doesn't think they are aggressive you could do with reading your last post through - nothing but unjustified personal attacks.

    Not once have I questioned this site and have nothing but respect for it.
    Neither have I questioned you,I just asked for other opinions but you seem to take it that your opinion is the only one that matters.

    I think your last comment considering your line of work is disgraceful and shows what an opinionated,up your own a**e kind of person you are.

    "just for information....now i am being aggressive....i am beginning to think that i understand why your employers got shut of you. A lucky escape for them, i suspect."

    Congratulations your ego has probably now stopped genuine people asking for help.
    Pathetic


  9. #29
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    Default Re: Early Probation Termination

    Quote Originally Posted by Sangie595 View Post
    Just for information....now i am being aggressive....i am beginning to think that i understand why your employers got shut of you. A lucky escape for them, i suspect.
    I think this is a very unnecessary and unhelpful comment. Your advice is always useful and very welcome – but I think we need to steer clear of this kind of thing.



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  10. #30
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    Default Re: Early Probation Termination

    This is a really excellent resource, and it's fantastic both that the site team and the regulars contributeicon so much for the common good. I have limited relevant "expertise", unfortunately, but do try to contributeicon when I can.

    Sangie: I hope you don't mind this feedback, but people who come to this site are often worried, concerned or plain upset by their experiences. They need a bit of support even if the practical advice we can offer is limited.

    The manner therefore in which your (often very helpful) advice is given is not irrelevant; and you do sometimes come across as dismissive and unfriendly. You would be brilliant if you could just tone that down a bit.


  11. #31
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    Default Re: Early Probation Termination

    Actually I think that sometimes its justified.
    Question asked--response given
    I dont like that answer so ill go on the attack

    Person giving answer gets frustrated at a blarzae attitude.

    If tho is the op's attitude at work , no wonder the original question was asked


  12. #32
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    It's perhaps not surprising that people are allowed to come on the site, pick a fight, be really offensive, and then are surprised that people bite back. And then it's us that get the blame.

    The OP had gone out of their way to be offensive and is amazed that people won't stand for it?
    Being an employee, or being "upset" excuses them for offensive comments and a complete disregard for others?

    But nobody is allowed to react to that? We don't get permission to be offended? OP s can be as downright discourteous as they like and we must have to put up with it for the site?
    Stuff that for a lark...

    I've had enough of it. Logging out and like so many others, I'm gone.


  13. #33
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    Internet forums can be an odd place at times.

    Clashing opinions/facts and styles of responses. Debates for the sake of it. People having right to offend or being offended.

    Agree with Sangie on this. They were straight to the point and gave facts. With employment law, if the situation is clear, then better to be given a clear answer and not be led down the garden path.

    If the OP wants to continue looking into their rights based on their experience of being let go by their employer, then there is plenty of information on CAGicon and elsewhere. Just Google for it and there will be pages of results.


  14. #34
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    Default Re: Early Probation Termination

    Think a couple of people are missing what's actually gone on here.

    My first time on here for a long time and I do not have a clue of anyones background.
    i


  15. #35
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    Default Re: Early Probation Termination

    Having just re read the whole thread I can see exactly what's gone on here.

    And I've already said it.
    I wont say any more in case I cause offence


  16. #36
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    You won't cause offence so fire away

    What's being missed through all of this is at the outset I had no awareness what Sangies background was and because I asked for others advice,she took offence to it.

    There has been no disputing the information provided anywhere throughout this topic and her information has been valuable, but because I requested if any more could be added she went on the offensive.

    Remember I have contacted various professional bodies who have all given conflicting advice, am I in the wrong to ask for more so as to work out what is actually correct?

    From Vaubans post (and everything he has said regarding people asking for help is spot on) it looks like this is not the first time that she had replied this way.

    Whether she is offended or not,for someone in her profession to make that comment to someone who has just been made unemployed is disrespectful and disgusting.

    It goes against everything that this site is about,some of you including SgtBush with your "If tho is the op's attitude at work , no wonder the original question was asked" comment might want to remember that sometimes.


  17. #37
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    Default Re: Early Probation Termination

    I wonder what you old username was and why you are hiding under a new one...

    sorry but pers i'd rather have 100 Sangie595's here that help people
    rather than one that makes a big deal about not wanting to hear advise they don't like
    even if it is the correct advise.

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  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curly109 View Post
    What's being missed through all of this is at the outset I had no awareness what Sangies background was and because I asked for others advice,she took offence to it.
    There has been no disputing the information provided anywhere throughout this topic and her information has been valuable, but because I requested if any more could be added she went on the offensive.
    Remember I have contacted various professional bodies who have all given conflicting advice, am I in the wrong to ask for more so as to work out what is actually correct?

    From Vaubans post (and everything he has said regarding people asking for help is spot on) it looks like this is not the first time that she had replied this way.
    Whether she is offended or not,for someone in her profession to make that comment to someone who has just been made unemployed is disrespectful and disgusting.
    It goes against everything that this site is about,some of you including SgtBush with your "If tho is the op's attitude at work , no wonder the original question was asked" comment might want to remember that sometimes.
    Remember that on CAGicon people volunteer their time and don't get paid. People will provide information and answers, but if they keep being asked for more and more information, it is asking someone to give up more free time to search through resources they might have. If you went to an employment solicitor it would be quite expensive.

    With CAB, ACAS and other advice services they have employed staff as well as volunteers. If you have been given conflicting advice elsewhere then take it up with those that gave it.

    I will leave it at that.


  19. #39
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    Default Re: Early Probation Termination

    I told you very early on that sangie does this for a living and you flew off at a tangent saying
    Well cab say different, acas say different and two employment lawyers are interested in the case.

    I posted a qoute that explains what probationary period actually means, but you chose to sort of skip over that.
    I still stand firm that if your agumentive attitude shown on here transpires into your work life then I can see why the company just wants to terminate your contract.

    You also failed to answer if your case was anything to do with the 6 scenarios I listed which cancel out probationary periods


  20. #40
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    Default Re: Early Probation Termination

    Couldn't remember what my old user name was had not been on for over 7 years.
    During my last time on here you were one of those that provided me with a lot of help and support and it went a long way to resolving various issues.

    What's sad about all of this is (and it's only become deal made by others) is the perception I am not "hearing" the advice, as that's far from the truth and I have not challenged any of it given.
    All I have looked to do is get as much of it as I can - hence why I have been researching different avenues



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