Hi,

Hoping someone might know where I stand on this but I have a feeling I won't have a leg to stand on.

Here goes my situation,

Discovered today my account was over its overdraft by £471.

In a complete panic I rushed to the bank to get a statement

only to discover over 100 transactions from Amazon in the last 2 days.

Turned out my 13 year old son had used my card and proceeded to use it for in app purchases.

I have phoned hsbc to see how I stand on this

they state that unless I get the police involved there is nothing they can do

(which obviously I don't want to do as he has never done anything like this before and I really don't think he realised how much he had spent)

that is fair enough

I asked how they allowed my account to go so far over my overdraft,

which is £1000,

and continue to allow more and more transactions to go out.

The reply I got you have to involve the police if you want it sorted.

What annoys me most is that a few months ago I tried to make a transaction which would have taken me over my overdraft by about £15 (unwittingly) but was declined

how or why on earth did they allow it to reach that limit and sting me with charges which they refuse to withdraw.

I have a pretty poor credit rating so it would be considered irresponsible lending surely.

Any ideas where to turn next ?

TIA

Gem77

P.s. Yes my son has had a very stern talking to and being punished accordingly.

in app purchases on what and who is the amazon device and its account registered under ..you?

could be your fault as much as his

no I cant see a way out.

Hi dx,

App was Roblox, his device and his account.

His internet privileges have now been revoked.

I accept I am partially to blame and know that money is now lost its just the fact that hsbc allowed my account to go nearly £500 over its overdraft. Allowing purchase after purchase. ( each transaction was for £6.03) and they will now charge me unauthorized overdraft fees for continuing to make purchases when in an unauthorized overdraft.

I think what is very interesting here and which maybe gives you some leverage is the fact that they refused to allow you and an authorised overdraft for £15 and it later on have allowed a substantial number of payments to go out.

This makes it rather interesting because it suggests very strongly that they have protected your authorised overdraft and I think that there might be an argument to say that you relied on this and that by being inconsistent in their approach, they have treated you unfairly and they have not considered your interests when arriving at their decision.

When they refused to allow you to have the £15 overdraft, did they charge you a penalty?

Hi bankfodder,

No they didn't. It was for an online purchase and just said declined please use another method of payment. Nothing ever showed on my bank statements.

Well that's a shame because it means that it is more deniable by them.

Of course, it's up to you as to the amount of effort and trouble you want to make about this. I think that I would implement our customer services guide and then call them and ask them about the incident on such and such a date when they declined a payment and asked them why. They will have a record of this and they will tell you why it was declined. If they confirm on your telephone recording that they declined it because there were insufficient funds then I think that this is enough to make a very good complaint.

My approach is quite aggressive about this kind of thing and so my suggestion would be to threaten and to begin an action for unfair treatment under BCOBS. If you are able to produce evidence that they had declined an earlier transaction and then gone ahead to authorise several others – to your detriment then I think you would have a very high chance of winning – and I expect that they would probably put their hands up rather than face you in court.

There have been very few cases brought in respect of statutory breaches under BCOBS – but where they have been brought, the results have been spectacular and the banks seem to be extremely anxious to avoid a BCOBS judgement.

Of course, you may decide that it's not worth it – but if you fancy sorting it out and you fancy making a bit of trouble and having a bit of sport then that's what I would suggest. In any event I would begin by installing a call recorder and then having the conversation about the declined payment and seeing what they said about it.

If they confirmed it on a recording I would then follow up with an SAR. That would be really funny if you had them on a call recording telling you that they had declined the payment for insufficient funds and yet an SAR failed to disclose any reference to this. This would be a highly possible scenario and of course that would amount to a second breach – this time a breach of their Data Protection obligations.

It's really up to you

Thank you so much bankfodder. On a better note I have spoke to Amazon and they were really helpful and in the process of refunding all the transactions.

I will wait and see how much hsbc charge me and take it from there as that was all I was really asking from them was to waiver the charges as it was their fault they allowed a hundred or so transactions to go out from an unauthorized overdraft .

Thank you once again and I shall keep you posted.

Sound like CC Co has an ind transaction limit for unauthorised overdrafts and each of son's transactions were only fo £6.50.

Personally, I would ask Police to read the Riot Act to son over fraudulent use of CC or get son to pay your overdraft fee. Your choice.

Thank you so much bankfodder. On a better note I have spoke to Amazon and they were really helpful and in the process of refunding all the transactions.

 

I will wait and see how much hsbc charge me and take it from there as that was all I was really asking from them was to waiver the charges as it was their fault they allowed a hundred or so transactions to go out from an unauthorized overdraft .

Thank you once again and I shall keep you posted.

in that case – and as a more gentle option – I would still have the recorded call and then if they start imposing penalties, we will help you draft a letter to them which will explain how unfair they have been and how they have breached their statutory duties. I can imagine that it would very possibly prompt them to make a so-called gesture of goodwill

Thank you so much bankfodder. On a better note I have spoke to Amazon and they were really helpful and in the process of refunding all the transactions.

 

I will wait and see how much hsbc charge me and take it from there as that was all I was really asking from them was to waiver the charges as it was their fault they allowed a hundred or so transactions to go out from an unauthorized overdraft .

Thank you once again and I shall keep you posted.

None of this appears to be the fault of HSBC. As the transactions were each for small amounts I doubt Amazon checked your available balance with HSBC before processing each of them - so HSBC never had the opportunity to decline any of the transactions.

Before threatening court action and even complaining about being treated unfairly, you may wish to contact HSBC again to explain the situation and politely ask if any charges can be waived.

Of course it would be worth trying to contact HSBC to ask for a waiver – but to say that it is not their fault is completely wrong. They are completely responsible for their computer systems and they are absolutely able to configure them in anyway they want. If they are out of control of their computer systems then that simply adds to their general culpability in the matter.

I'm always very sorry to find people so forgiving of the banks

Exactly bankfodder, it is quite unsettling to think that they would let so many transactions go so far over my overdraft.

One of my credit cards contacted me once because they thought they had spotted some suspicious activity and sure enough someone had indeed stolen my cc details and made a few transactions

although I couldn't see why or how the cc company picked it up as they just appeared to be normal transactions to me and didn't take me over my credit limit (thank goodness they did though)

yet hsbc just let over 100 transactions go out

which surely would look very suspicious

as I have never made such transactions

and never gone or tried to go even remotely that far over my overdraft and not bat an eyelid.

Not exactly a very good advertisement for their fraud prevention.

HSBC never had the opportunity to stop any of the transactions though and the same would've occurred at any other bank or credit card provider.

This is down to how Amazon process their transactions. If Amazon had sought authorisation and checked the transaction with HSBC there would have been an opportunity to decline them.

It's not a flaw with HSBC systems either. All card payments work in the same way so it's down to the rules and processes that underpin that as defined by the likes of Visa, MasterCard, American Express etc.

Don't kid yourself. If HSBC didn't want to pay they wouldn't. It's got nothing to do with Amazon and how they process the transactions. It's not for Amazon to seek authorisation from the bank

I have a good working knowledge of card payments and what you're saying simply isn't true.

The OP even states that a couple of months ago a transaction that would've taken them into an unarranged overdraft of £15 was declined by HSBC. On that occasion the retailer checked and sought authorisation from HSBC, who decided to decline the transaction.

On this more recent incident, Amazon didn't check with HSBC and therefore there was no opportunity to decline the transactions.

At best the OP can hope that HSBC will waive the overdraft charges as a gesture of goodwill and perhaps a small compensation payment for not properly addressing her questions of how the payments could be made and instead simply repeating the suggestion to refer to the Police.

I think you have a good chance if you just ring them up and ask for a waiver. I picked up around £50 worth of charges for being overdrawn by £5 or so for a week without realising it. A quick phonecall, no anger, no shouting, just an immediate refund. That was Nat West.

I have a good working knowledge of card payments and what you're saying simply isn't true.

 

The OP even states that a couple of months ago a transaction that would've taken them into an unarranged overdraft of £15 was declined by HSBC. On that occasion the retailer checked and sought authorisation from HSBC, who decided to decline the transaction.

 

On this more recent incident, Amazon didn't check with HSBC and therefore there was no opportunity to decline the transactions.

 

At best the OP can hope that HSBC will waive the overdraft charges as a gesture of goodwill and perhaps a small compensation payment for not properly addressing her questions of how the payments could be made and instead simply repeating the suggestion to refer to the Police.

I hear what you say but I'm afraid that I am completely unable to believe that simply because Amazon decides to put a payment through without checking with HSBC first, that HSBC will then approve anything that comes through.

I'm completely certain that the final word rest with HSBC and if they think that there is no money in the account then they will block the payment – but if they think that the payment is small enough not to trouble them that they could be a charge/penalty to be earned at the same time then they will allow it through.

HSBC will never surrender control to Amazon or any other company. It's difficult enough for HSBC's own customers to retain control