Hi good afternoon

In December 2016 i paid a £1k deposit for some goods,

i did so before January as the supplier said they're increasing their prices by 10% in Jan 2017, so its a kind of worked as a holding deposit.

There was a 10k balance to be paid before goods could start to be ordered and delivered to me

at the start of 2017 things financially took a turn for the worst,

i couldn't continue with the business venture and over the coming months tried to pick up again but it was not possible.

I then proceeded to ask the supplier if i could get the £1k deposit back,

replied with the straight answer of

"With regards to the deposit payment they are non-refundable due to our terms & conditions."

I've not argued this yet and wanted to come here first to see the best practice,

I've never seen any terms and conditions,

no paperwork has ever been sent to me via post or email

and this deposit was paid via card over the phone.

Nothing about this being non-refundable was mentioned.

The supplier wouldn't be at a loss because nothing was actually ordered, held back specifically for me etc.

Have I got rights to get my deposit back in this case?

Thanks

yes you have

stuff their smoke and mirrors T&C's you were not sent them to read BEFORE you paid.

why not go do a chargeback to your bank

Thanks dx100uk once again for your continued help with various issues in life!

Would i simply send an email saying i wasn't made aware of any terms and conditions especially for the non-refunable deposit and that i'm requesting they refund it back or i'll ask the bank.

Kr

pers i'd go do a chargeback with your bank now

Alright, it'll then be down to the supplier to argue it?

nothing to do with them if the chargeback goes thru.

go ring your bank

It may not be a simple has that as this is technically a cancellation of order which will be governed by the T&Cs of business....not law.

Some possible reasons for claiming a chargeback are:

Company goes into administration – the company you purchased from has gone bust.

Quality of item – the goods were not as described or were defective.

Non-delivery – the goods were not received as promised.

Technical issue – expired authorisation or a processing error by the bank.

Clerical error – being charged multiple times or being billed for the incorrect amount.

Fraud – you have been the victim of fraud and did not authorise the purchase.

Did you place the order on line ?

Regards

Andy

I think the normal chargeback window is 120 days, so your bank may not be keen (or even unable) to help after more than a year.

total of 540 days the 120 runs from when you knew you could

however, see andyorch post above

I'm on hold to the bank now to see what they say.

The order was being discussed in depth via email over a few months prior to paying the deposit over the phone,

i was being pushed because of their price increases in Jan 2017.

After i paid the deposit, i was sent an invoice via email for the remaining balance which i could pay when i was ready.

Update:

Bank just confirmed the 120 days rule,

I tried to explain that I was only made aware that the supplier wouldn't provide me a refund a few months back.

Perhaps my only option now is to approach the supplier with some integrity and strength in the argument (with your kind help.

get ahold of these supposed T&C or make them prove you were NOT told of them before paying the deposit?

I'll send over an email now. Where would i stand if they simply say the predicted excuse of "we explained over the phone"...

but they didnt

What item(s) did you order, custom made or made to measure?

Did order them using a Business or personal name?

dx - if you use chargeback Bank will attempt to recover the repaid amount from the Supplier.

A deposit is the sealing of an agreement, they agree to provide something for you and you agree to pay for it. Now, is the goods ordered were bespoke they can force the whole deal to go ahead or get you to pay for their wasted effort, which amounts to the same.

If the goods were not bespoke the a lot of this boils down to what was said regarding to the performance of the contract, ie when were you expected to apy the balance and when were they expected to provide the goods. Something open ended on both sides isn't really a contract, it is more of a memorandum of understanding and that means that they cant keep the money if the actual work doesn't go ahead.

The "no refunds" in their unseen T&C's is a bit of red herring because you haven't actually got a contract yet from what you say therefore it cannot apply whatever it says. It would breach consumer law anyway in most circumstances as it is far too vague to represent a loss the company would have by you not continuing if they haven't actually done anything, ie if it was kitchen design they could claim the cost of sending out the bloke who does the measuring up as this is quantifiable and necessary for them to perform their bit even though they haven't made anything.

You mention a business that failed to get going, if this was business related you are basically stuffed other than arguing the memorandum of understanding but with a lack of paperwork that will be harder to argue.

What item(s) did you order, custom made or made to measure?

Did order them using a Business or personal name?

The order was for photo booths and once the full invoice had been paid, they would have then started to put the booth together, print the booth skins etc. The deposit was only paid because they told me the prices would increase in January and by paying the deposit i can secure Decembers price.

I ordered them using my name, not a business.

A deposit is the sealing of an agreement, they agree to provide something for you and you agree to pay for it. Now, is the goods ordered were bespoke they can force the whole deal to go ahead or get you to pay for their wasted effort, which amounts to the same.

 

If the goods were not bespoke the a lot of this boils down to what was said regarding to the performance of the contract, ie when were you expected to apy the balance and when were they expected to provide the goods. Something open ended on both sides isn't really a contract, it is more of a memorandum of understanding and that means that they cant keep the money if the actual work doesn't go ahead.

 

The "no refunds" in their unseen T&C's is a bit of red herring because you haven't actually got a contract yet from what you say therefore it cannot apply whatever it says. It would breach consumer law anyway in most circumstances as it is far too vague to represent a loss the company would have by you not continuing if they haven't actually done anything, ie if it was kitchen design they could claim the cost of sending out the bloke who does the measuring up as this is quantifiable and necessary for them to perform their bit even though they haven't made anything.

 

You mention a business that failed to get going, if this was business related you are basically stuffed other than arguing the memorandum of understanding but with a lack of paperwork that will be harder to argue.

I fully appreciate that a company shouldn't be deemed to take a loss on something they've ordered or produced if the customer cancels but this was purely a deposit to hold the price in December. This is one of the reasons they sent me an invoice for the full amount minus the deposit straight after, told me to pay when i'm ready.

Update from an email i sent the supplier:

"You wouldn’t have been asked to sign anything regarding the terms and conditions as these are on our website. Please see the link below:"

On that link: "7.4. A £1000 deposit is taken as a non-returnable deposit on all purchases to cover administration costs."

I've never seen these and nor was made aware of them. What now?

but you were not told to READ THEM before you signed up

sorry but they conned you out of that £1000 simply to supposedly stop a price increase

They will have to show that their admin comes to £1000 then.

It will be about £100 at most if you include the cost of sending a salseman round to lie to you and as you did it over the phone then no cost at all.

however, this is clealy a business to business matter so the law isnt so straightforward.

wont matter that you ordered in your name, is there a realisitc expactation that it was for your front room instead of a big telly?

Update from an email i sent the supplier:

 

"You wouldn’t have been asked to sign anything regarding the terms and conditions as these are on our website. Please see the link below:"

 

On that link: "7.4. A £1000 deposit is taken as a non-returnable deposit on all purchases to cover administration costs."

 

I've never seen these and nor was made aware of them. What now?

Thanks for your replies.

All correspondence from the start was via email and then the only time I spoke to them over the phone was to make the payment. They surely cannot include any admin costs prior to me paying the £1k. After the payment was made, only a handful of emails were exchanged, absolutely no way it could have come to £1,000. I absolutely did not read the terms and conditions and as dx100uk said, is this just a simple case of me being conned meaning no means of getting my money back?

I think you need to be more honest with yourself.

You state you ordered them in your name, suggesting they are for personal use.

It would not be unreasonable to ask why you need a number of photo booths for personal use.

A judge would no doubt ask that very question.

You would answer him honestly, too, I’m sure.

Which would be that you were setting up a business.

Now, have you informed HMRC, registered a Limited Company?

I am having difficulty understanding how a supplier can state ‘just pay the balance when you’re ready’...

this doesn’t sound very professional to me and in today’s climate almost reckless.

Are you absolutely sure they haven’t started assembly of the booths?

Ordered materials and components?

You’ve left this supplier hanging for over a year...

So, take them to court. Let a judge decide.

There was no business setup at the time of wanting to order the goods and paying the deposit, the suppliers have to put a name in the order, company or not.

They've not ordered anything, as mentioned in an earlier post they've not argued the deposit is non-refundable because of ordered goods they're saying it's taken to cover administration costs.

Why would it make a difference whether the supplier is left "hanging" for another year, there's no admin costs to hold my money, let's say £10 per email they send me? That's the only clear loss but are all part and parcel of a sale?

If I was to walk into a car dealership, spend hours in there then asked them to draw up the paperwork, decide I don't want the car and leave, will I be expected to pay for the admin charges!? I think not.

If it's decided by the judge that this is actually a business-to-business transaction would the supplier still have to prove that their admin costs were £1,000? Or in a B2B contract can the non-refundable deposit be whatever the parties agree to?