Marc Gander - The Consumer Survival Handbook


A 220 page introduction to all things consumer related by our own BankFodder.

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Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


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  1. #1
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    Default Armtrac Security windscreen PNC - Over stay at St.Ives

    On Saturday afternoon a car was parked in a private car park while my family and i went to the cinema.

    Someone bought a ticket for 3 hours expecting the film to be finished by the time the ticket would expire.

    However, the film finished 20 minutes after the ticket had expired.

    By the time we got back to the car (25 minutes after the ticket had expired)
    we had a parking chargeicon notice on the car that is asking for 100 reduced to 60 if paid within 14 days.

    What should we do please?

    The parking company is a member of the Independant Parking Committee.

    Thanks for any help.


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    Default Re: Armtrac Security windscreen PNC - Over stay at St.Ives

    Easily sorted. You wont have to pay a single penny. Sit tight and the regulars will be around to help.

    Oh and welcome to CAGicon.

    But for now, you do absolutely nothing until you get a NTK through the post. This will come after 28 days from the ticket on car, but before 56 days expire. If its out of those timeframes, then they cant do anything.

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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Armtrac Security windscreen PNC - Over stay at St.Ives

    Thanks,
    I tried to post pictures of the tickets and signage but it won't let me (yet)


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    Default Re: Armtrac Security windscreen PNC - Over stay at St.Ives

    can you complete this please
    https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.u...Parking-Ticket

    you can post pix etc by reading uploadicon

    please use only ONE multipage PDFicon.

    as this was a windscreen ticket
    await the NTK which must arrive between 29-56 day from the date of the speculative invoice you have

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    Default Re: Armtrac Security windscreen PNC - Over stay at St.Ives

    uploadicon <------- (click me)

    Just ensure you fully redact ANY identifiers off the photos.

    The fact that they are IPC members, speaks volumes, as much use as indicators on a submarine!

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co...-presents.html


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  6. #6
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    Default Re: Armtrac Security windscreen PNC - Over stay at St.Ives

    For windscreen tickets (NTD) please answer the following questions.

    1 The date of infringement? 23 December 2017

    2 Did you appeal to the parking company? Not yet


    If yes, has there been any response?
    If no, have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK) Did the NTK provide
    photographic evidence?


    3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act
    2012 (PoFA)


    4 If you appealed after receiving the NTK, did the parking company give
    you any information regarding the further appeals process?
    [it is well known that parking companies will reject any appeal whatever
    the circumstances]


    5 Who is the parking company? Armtrac Security


    For

    Attached Files

  7. #7
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    Default

    Ok for the moment you do nothing as the ticket is addressed to the driver, who is unknown to the parking co.

    They now have to send a NTK to the keeper and that must arrive between 29 and 56 days after the event and have specific wording to be considered a lawful demand and also to create a keeper liability. Many parking co's dont bother to do this right so end up shooting themselves in the foot.

    Now,
    what we need to know from you is
    the wording on the screen ticket and also
    the wording on the signage and

    since you bought a ticket to park,
    what the wording on the ticket machine says as this is your licence to park,
    not the signs
    so any difference between the two is crucial..

    Now having given you a general response
    I have had a chance to read the signage you posted up and

    have noticed a few problems for the parking co.
    The signs that has the tariff doesnt mention a penalty for overstaying so there has been no breach of contract as there is no clause you have breached.

    Their signage does not have an address for the company,
    just a PO Box number
    and this means that they cant issue a lawful demand for payment
    so again you owe nothing.

    irdly the sign saying conditions apply means
    the offer is not a contract but an "invitation to treat"
    and that means no unilateral terms
    but individually agreed terms and

    if you then decide to pay them 3.30 for 3 hours parking and the machine accepts the money then they have accepted that conditional off you made.

    Now regarding the screen ticket issued at 16.47,
    when exactly did your ticket expire
    and was the cinema a property connected to the car park?

    This has little to do with this ticket
    but the cinema may have had complaints about this before and another will add weight to their representations to their landlord regarding the behaviour of their servants

    ( the parking co's dont own the car park, they just tell rather fanciful stories about how brilliant they are at "managing them and the landlord takes them at their word but the reality is very different


  8. #8
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    Default

    thanks,
    I think I still have the ticket in the car,

    I will get a picture of the ticket machine on Friday morning when in the area again.

    The cinema has no connection with the car park at all.


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    Default Re: Armtrac Security windscreen PNC - Over stay at St.Ives

    As you can see, defeating these matters takes time so dont be looking for a quick solution, there isnt one.


  10. #10
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    Default

    I have not got the parking ticket I bought.

    Although it goes against the grain should I spend 1 and buy another one?


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    Default Re: Armtrac Security windscreen PNC - Over stay at St.Ives

    no. no need at all.

    You do absolutely nothing now until you get a NTK through the post.

    Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..


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  12. #12
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    Default Re: Armtrac Security windscreen PNC - Over stay at St.Ives

    thanks.


  13. #13
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    Default Re: Armtrac Security windscreen PNC - Over stay at St.Ives

    Notice to Keeper was received in the post today,
    What should we do next please?


  14. #14
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    Default Re: Armtrac Security windscreen PNC - Over stay at St.Ives

    scan it up both side to one PDFicon
    read uploadicon

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  15. #15
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    Default Re: Armtrac Security windscreen PNC - Over stay at St.Ives

    Notice to Keeper:

    Attached Files

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Armtrac Security windscreen PNC - Over stay at St.Ives

    Well, for a start, the NTK isnt complaint so theyre on a road to nowhere.

    Im laughing hard at the bit at the end where you are "required " to sign though

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  17. #17
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    Default Re: Armtrac Security windscreen PNC - Over stay at St.Ives

    Ok, thanks, What is not compliant about it?
    What should I do next?


  18. #18
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    Default

    Hi Jim. The people who reply to your posts are all volunteers [ie unpaid]so there is an expectancy that when you have a problem with the private parking rogues that you do your bit too.

    For instance if you read other threads on this section you will find that others have been harassed by Amtrac or another company for the same reason as yourself.

    If you read through some of those threads you will see explanations of why your NTK has flaws.
    Nevertheless these companies are stupid, greedy and venal so even if you tell them your notice is not compliant, most tend to ignoreicon your plea and carry on pursuing you and even adding unlawful charges to the original cost.

    So there is the possibility that you could end up in Court-not because they have a strong case but to encourage others to pay up rather then go to court.

    With Armtrac it is perhaps not so likely that they will take you to court as some of the other companies, but if they do, it is better you find out yourself the whys and wherefores of what is happening to you.

    That way, not only do you win in court, but you could get a sizeable payment from Amtrac for the aggravation etc awarded by the court.

    These parking cheats to comply with the Law have to chase the driver, not you the registered keeper-they cannot assume in Law that you are one and the same person.

    In all communication with them always word it so that you do not divulge that were the driver if you were.
    Things like "I did not see any signs" would be a dead giveaway that you were the driver.

    If instead you said something like the driver told me they did not see any signs, not only are you not admitting that you were the driver, you also have not indicated the sex of the driver either.

    They should comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 [POFA] but some do not bother either through stupidity or laziness.
    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...dule/4/enacted will give you an idea of what the rogues should do to help win in court.

    You are lucky in a way that Armtrac use the IPC as they know less about the Laws relating to private parking than you do.

    Indeed their own Code of Conduct that their members have to adhere to has sections in it that are just totally wrong and would not stand up in Court. So it is perhaps not surprising that their members get the same things wrong too.

    You would have thought that IPC would have found out by now themselves but stupid is as stupid does and it is in your favour that they cannot get it right.

    It is a constant source of amazement to me that our ever alert DVLA [that was sarcasm] who have "robust"checks on the private parking companies appear either have not read their Code or if they have, do not understand that what they are reading is wrong in Law.

    When you read some of the other threads,
    you may come across on of Erics brother's suggested letter to a PPC which may seem rude.

    It is intended to be and once it has been read the less stupid often give up and chase some one else who has less knowledge of the parking laws than they have.

    The more venal of them keep going and demanding even more money which immediately renders those claims unlawful. The mind boggles as to how dumb these companies are.

    However when you do get stuck or need help do ask


  19. #19
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    Default Re: Armtrac Security windscreen PNC - Over stay at St.Ives

    we still havent seen the screen tickey they slapped on your car so we cant compare the supposed breaches. Likewise if they say the breach is having an expired ticket theh we need to see the signs to see where this is shown as a clause in their contract they offer you.


  20. #20
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    Default

    Apologies,
    I will uploadicon the ticket and 3 signs now.

    Attached Files


Reclaim the Right Ltd. - reg.05783665 in the UK reg. office:- 923 Finchley Road London NW11 7PE
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