Marc Gander - The Consumer Survival Handbook


A 220 page introduction to all things consumer related by our own BankFodder.

Includes energy companies, mobile phone providers, retailers, banks, insurance companies,debt collection agencies, reclaim companies, secondhand car sellers, cowboy garages, cowboy builders and all the rest who put their own profits before you.

£6.99



Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

£19.99 + £1.50 (P&P)


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  1. #21
    Site Team honeybee13 Authoritative honeybee13 Authoritative honeybee13 Authoritative honeybee13 Authoritative honeybee13 Authoritative honeybee13 Authoritative honeybee13 Authoritative honeybee13 Authoritative honeybee13 Authoritative honeybee13 Authoritative honeybee13 Authoritative honeybee13's Avatar



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    Default Re: Too many holidays

    I understand what you're saying, UB, my husband doesn't think he loses out. But he found the calculations hard at the beginning and I was hoping he would share his experience in case it helped.

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  2. #22
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    Default Re: Too many holidays

    There are 8 Bank Holidays per year in E & W, and not all fall on a Mon.
    There is a Holiday Entitlement Calculator on the Gov.UK website.
    The Co can move Stat. Holidays slightly, to maintain max working days in any one week.


  3. #23
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  4. #24
    Basic Account Holder Manxman in exile Novitiate



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    Default Re: Too many holidays

    Quote Originally Posted by unclebulgaria67 View Post
    No one should gain time off or paid holiday by not workng a Monday or Friday Bank Holiday. Otherwise few part time people would want to work Mondays or Good Friday.

    What Sangie is saying is that some companies might not be open on bank holidays and they therefore deduct the relevant hours from everyone. This means that whatever hours you work say 7 hours full time of 3.5 hours part time, that is deducted from total holiday entitlement including BH hours. The staff then get this holiday as paid holiday time.

    I repeat, people need to remember this is paid holiday time. You get your contract holiday hours pay, plus bank holiday hours pay, both of which will be pro-rata for part timers.

    Sorry - I'm not trying to derail this thread (apologies honeybee!) but I am trying to understand this for my benefit and hopefully the OP's.


    Para 1: If I were working two days per week, I think I would rather be working Mondays and Fridays as that would give me more paid holidays(?) than working say Tuesday and Wednesday. You seem to be saying the opposite, and this is the bit I find really confusing (and perhaps OP does too).


    Para 2: Yes, but what if you work in a sector where staff do routinely work on BHs (eg NHS)? If you don't work on Mondays and Fridays how is the BH part of your holiday entitlement accounted for? (Mondays and Fridays taking up at least half of BHs - more when Christmas day and New Years day fall on a Monday or Friday).


    This whole area seems unnecessarily complicated to me. (Perhaps I'm being stupid).


    When I started work in the NHS you had a holiday entitlement and BHs were outside that - they were taken for granted. If you had to work on a BH that was dealt with separately under T&Cs. (Edit: and if you didn't work Mondays or Fridays, it didn't affect your holiday entitlement re BHs because you weren't working those days anyway).

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  5. #25
    Basic Account Holder Manxman in exile Novitiate



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    Default Re: Too many holidays

    This in reply to mariner51's post #23.


    Looking at the first google hit there, from Nottingham university:


    "Previously, part-time staff who worked, for example, on Mondays would have benefited from taking off all Bank Holidays falling on Mondays, and therefore may have taken off more days than someone who did not work on Monday. By calculating pro rata entitlements, all staff are able to take off their pro rata entitlement whatever days of the week they work."


    OK - that makes sense, although it seems unfortunate that it takes a five page document to explain how to work this out.


    Looking at the .gov website, I think what has confused me (and probably many others) is the question of whether BHs are included as part of your holiday entitlement or not. It all seems unnecessarily complicated to me (coming from the public sector as opposed to the private).


    Apologies if I've wasted posters' time, but perhaps it may help the OP too.


  6. #26
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Manxman in exile View Post
    Sorry - I'm not trying to derail this thread (apologies honeybee!) but I am trying to understand this for my benefit and hopefully the OP's.


    Para 1: If I were working two days per week, I think I would rather be working Mondays and Fridays as that would give me more paid holidays(?) than working say Tuesday and Wednesday. You seem to be saying the opposite, and this is the bit I find really confusing (and perhaps OP does too).


    Para 2: Yes, but what if you work in a sector where staff do routinely work on BHs (eg NHS)? If you don't work on Mondays and Fridays how is the BH part of your holiday entitlement accounted for? (Mondays and Fridays taking up at least half of BHs - more when Christmas day and New Years day fall on a Monday or Friday).


    This whole area seems unnecessarily complicated to me. (Perhaps I'm being stupid).


    When I started work in the NHS you had a holiday entitlement and BHs were outside that - they were taken for granted. If you had to work on a BH that was dealt with separately under T&Cs. (Edit: and if you didn't work Mondays or Fridays, it didn't affect your holiday entitlement re BHs because you weren't working those days anyway).
    You don't get more paid holidays. Whatever your paid holiday is, both contract and bank holidays, is what you get.

    Are you confusing normal time off and holiday hours you get paid for ?

    I could work for say NHS part time say 25 hours a week and do various different shift patterns. Some weeks, i might work Mondays and some weeks I didn't. If I happened to work one week where a Bank Holiday fell and I was working a BH Monday, I would be working during time I was supposed to be getting as paid holiday. Therefore the hours I worked would just be paid as normal per my contract and I would have the BH hours to use at another time. If I worked my 25 hours during a week with a BH Monday, but I was not scheduled to work the BH Monday, I would still have the BH entitlement.

    The important thing is that irrespective of what days people work, is that they receive their contractual paid holidays and what BH hours pay they are entitled to,


  7. #27
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    I think that what is confusing purple in this final step is "bank holidays". Especially since there aren't 8 bank holidays - there are 6 plus 2 public holidays!

    Everybody is entitled to a minimum of 28 days annual leave. Full stop. Nothing more than that. That INCLUDES the bank and public holidays. They are, for the purposes of employment law, irrelevant. Then you must look at your contract with the employer for anything additional that they might give you - but don't have to. That might be, for example, that you get 28 days PLUS bank/ public holidays; or that you get more days such as 35 days which may or may not include the bank/ public holidays. Anything over a flat 28 days is the choice of the employer to give or not. So you really need to check your terms and never assume you know what they say. Many people mistakenly believe that bank holidays are a right. They aren't.

    You also need to check your leave year - the period during which you must take leave. Occasionally, for people who have 1st April to 31st March, the number of public holidays changes in a year to accommodate the date of Easter.

    You should now have the total number of days that you have for annual leave. Then, as already explained, that is the base figure for the calculation, along with what number of hours a full time week is, to calculate part time annual leave.

    While we are on the subject, a note about holiday myths -
    Your employer can dictate when you take ALL your annual leave - it is not an employees choice.
    You must take, or lose, your leave unless the employer agrees to other arrangements - you did not have rights to payment instead (unless you are leaving your employment, and then only with the employers agreement to pay - if they won't then you must take it during your notice period.) or to carry it over.
    IF your employer permits carry over, they set the rules; and you cannot, in law, carry over more than 8 days - 20 days must be allowed to be taken during the holiday year.
    The correct thing to do is ask for leave BEFORE you make booking commitments for holidays away - the employer can say no.
    The employer CAN cancel approved leave providing they give notice.

    The biggest mistake people make is that they assume that their holiday is theirs to use as they wish. It isn't. The employer can dictate almost everything EXCEPT that you must be allowed to take holiday during any working year.


  8. #28
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    Default Re: Too many holidays

    Good explanation Sangie.

    If people are in doubt about such issues, I would question the quality of information provided by their employers.

    I can remember back when annualised hours came in and hours were mucked around with. Those who were part time were confused by their entitlement for BH pay hours. It was then clarified quite quickly to ensure that nobody thought they were losing out because of the days they were required to work. That was a long time ago and I am surprised that this confusion is still out there.

    You mentioning holidays, reminds that my employers decided not to open 27th December and everyone had a days holiday taken out of their years entitlement. There was no choice offered.


  9. #29
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    To be fair,
    the confusion is often created by the complexity of employment contracts these days.
    It used to be simple.
    They were full time or you were part time.

    Now you have equality laws that mean differential terms cannot exist if they are based solely on being part time.
    You have flexible working,
    home working,
    maternity leave,
    paternity leave,
    parental leave.

    Then there's annualised hours,
    term time working and
    variable hours.

    Just to name a few of the permutations,
    many of which exist at the same time.

    In my experience, excepting the very largest of employers with dedicated HR specialists, many of the employers get confused too!

    And yes,
    the Christmas close down is now much more common.
    In our line of work almost all the public sector,
    with the exception of emergency teams,
    closes for at least three days which is taken from existing leave entitlement.
    It's am austerity measure.

    Just closing buildings and turning off the heating saves employers an immense amount of money.
    Unless, of course, as happened the second year, in one of our local authorities, they forget to turn the decrepit old heating system of a rambling Victorian building back on.

    Then you have to pay the staff to sit at home for two extra days whilst the building returns to a temperature anyone can work in!
    I had to go in to negotiate sending our members home,
    and I swear to God it was colder inside the building than it was outside it!
    They don't build them like they used to, and in some circumstances it's just as well!



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