https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?482555-Hxcpm-pcn-St-Georges-Car-Park-Fitzwilliam-Street-Huddersfield-HD1-5BB&p=5074615#post5074615

The car owner has been issued with the same notice but I was the driver.

Same experience as above.

Where does he (the car owner) stand?

It is annoying that someone takes the money for your ticket physically but then you get told you haven't paid.

I also have the ticket as evidence.

Again, parking attendant said to put on dashboard but no reference to terms and conditions.

Interestingly I parked around 7:30am.

It was dark so even if the signs were up at the time, they weren't illuminated so would that add weight to the argument?

Do I reply or just wait?

the short answer is you just wait.

There is really nothing to worry about as since they cant get either the ticketing , signage or anything else at the site right

the chances of them issuing a proper NTK are almost zero.

Shows you the quality of the advice they get from their trade association,

the IPC (not to be confused with the IPC) who are the parking worlds cleverest solicitors, John and Will, wearing a different frock.

WHEN they get the NTK

get them to post up here as timings as well as content are critical to stand a chance of being as valid as a second hand betting slip.

Thanks ericsbrother

I'm not sure what you mean when you say "WHEN they get the NTK get them to post up here as timings as well as content are critical...." Sorry if I'm being a bit stupid. I'm a bit new to all this!

Read a big wodge of other threads and you will see why and how long the parking co's have to send out their notices.

So, to reiterate. you do nothing for the next month and come back herer if you get a eltter through the post and show us that

I have previously commented on this matter when I was new to the site and accidentally hijacked someone else's thread

- apologies for that

- I couldn't work out what to do but think I've now got it.

I have read many threads on this issue on here and on other sites

but can't see any that totally match my circumstances so would really appreciate some advice.

My ex partner was served a PCN (photographic evidence) by the above company by post for the car parking ticket not being on display.

At the time of the incident he owned the car.

On the date of the incident,

I was driving the car

I had physically paid an attendant accepting money early in the morning who issued the ticket.

I still have the ticket to prove I paid it.

The (very small and lightweight) ticket must have flipped over when I shut the car door.

That's all I can think.

In any event,

the attendant simply said "put it on your dashboard"

- no verbal reference to which way way up and no verbal reference to any terms and conditions/reading signs etc just the usual "park over there" comment.

The ticket states the name of the car park,

name of another company (who presumably own the land?),

the date,

the cost

and it says "Parking at own risk/have a good day".

No mention of the management company or t's and c's.

Having taken your advice previously,

I told my ex partner to just ignore the letter.

He ignored me,

panicked and phoned them to tell them it wasn't him driving and it was me.

They subsequently wrote to me and I have continued to ignore them

then realised I probably don't have protection under DPA as he named me.

Is this correct?

To further confuse matters,

as we had separated and I needed a car for the children,

my ex transferred ownership of the car to me on 05/11/2017.

I then received a PCN on 07/11/2017 saying:

"The driver of the above vehicle is liable for a Parking Charge for the above amount which at the date of this notice remains unpaid,

and for which the balance due remains outstanding.

We have gathered evidence by either ANPR, CCTV or photgraphs.

This charge relates to the period of parking specified above,

the charge having been incurred for Pay and Display Ticket was face down,

and liability for the same having been brought to the attention of the driver at the time of parking by clear signage in and around the site:

they inserted the name of the car park here

A 'Notice to Keeper' has previously been served on the registered keeper of the vehicle containing full details of the charge.

(technically I am the registered keeper of the vehicle at the date of this new letter - is this relevant?)

This resulted in us being advised that you were the hirer

(what is the definition of hirer?) of the vehicle at the time the parking charge was incurred.

The driver is liable to pay the sum of 100.00 pounds.

However, if payment is received within 14 days of this notice being sent then a reduced amount of 60 pounds will be accepted in full and final settlement.

You are now invited to pay the unpaid Parking Charge.

If you were not the driver of the vehicle,

notify us of the name of the driver and the current address of the driver (in writing using the form overleaf) and pass this notice to the driver.

Please note:

Photographic evidence and data is held on file to support this claim in accordance with the Data Protection Act 1998.

Failure to pay this charge may result in enforcement action which could include County Court Proceedings and which may incur additional costs."

I ignored this letter and, to be honest, couldn't mentally cope with this having recently found myself a single parent

received a further letter entitled "Outstanding Parking Notice Do not ignore this notice" on 06/12/2017.

This letter says:

We have previously written to you regarding the above PCN.

You were given the option of paying a reduced amount of 60 pounds in full and final settlement.

To date we have had no payment against this charge and therefore the balance remains outstanding in full which is 100 pounds.

We have gathered evidence by either ANPR, CCTV or photgraphs.

This charge relates to the period of parking specified above,

the charge having been incurred for Pay and Display Ticket was face down,

and liability for the same having been brought to the attention of the driver at the time of parking by clear signage in and around the site:

they inserted the name of the car park here

The driver is liable to pay the sum of 100.00 pounds within 14 days, please note

- if this remains unpaid after 14 days of this letter being sent to you then it will incur additional costs due to further administration.

Please note: Photographic evidence and data is held on file to support this claim in accordance with the Data Protection Act 1998.

Failure to pay this charge may result in enforcement action which could include County Court Proceedings and which may incur additional costs.

If this matter should have to proceed to court and judgement is obtained against you this could be registered against your name and address for 6 years and make it difficult for you to obtain credit.

An unpaid County Court order can also result in bailiffs being instructed to seize goods and/or an order being granted to deduct the amount owed directly from your salary.

Your immediate action is now required regarding this Parking Charge.

If you require further information and/or evidence please visit our website for details...."

You can see I have made some comments in italics above that I'd like some help with.

As the 14 days is just about up I have to decide what to do next.

As I have a lot to deal with right now,

part of me just wants to make it go away

but on the other hand I feel really angry about this unjustified treatment and I have little money as it is.

I feel that I have a good argument for non payment because:

I paid their attendant

Their attendant did not mention any signage and the ticket does not refer to any Ts and Cs.

In any event,

this was before sunrise and the signs were not illuminated so I could argue it was not clear signage.

Also the car park is not illuminated so I would have struggled to read the ticket in very low light

The signs are lime green and white which goes against IPC recommendations of black and white

Would I have taken any notice of the signs had I seen them on the basis that they refer to a different company than the name mentioned on the ticket?

When I went back to look for the signs after receiving the notice,

I saw that the signs refer to parking in clearly marked bays

- there are none so does this make the 'contract' terms onerous?

If their argument is simply that my ticket was face down and I can prove I paid as I have the ticket,

what loss have they suffered as a result of my ticket being face down?

Whilst I feel I have plenty of ammunition against them,

I am just unsure of how to go about this.

At what point do I put anything in writing?

I'm a bit worried about writing the wrong thing and it being held against me

but I'm also thinking that I should be replying as my silence could also go against me.

I'm outside the appeal period but how does this stand in law?

Is the appeal period simply a code of practice but not law so could I still technically try to appeal?

I'm so confused as to how to go about this.

Please help me. Any advice welcomed.

Many thanks

posts moved to your thread and thread tidied.

it would p'haps help if you can scan up all the letters to date to ONE multipage PDF please

read UPLOAD.

so to date

you are still only getting threats from HX themselves...

not that any DCA letter needs you doing anything. [they are not bailiffs and are powerless].

dx

Others more knowledgeable than me will be on in the morning, but this seems an easy win. You paid. The parking company suffered no loss. The law is on your side. Er - that's it.

Of course that won't stop these bandits sending you letters threatening you with being hung, drawn & quartered, or getting debt collection companies to send their own scary letters in big red writing hinting at Armageddon. But they are just paper tigers.

Well done on hanging on to the ticket.

If you look at other threads where payment has been made, but the motorist has made a tiny "mistake" (such as putting O instead of 0 as a registration number), you'll see the parking company always threaten and then invariably slink away ... and if they are really daft enough to do court, invariably get a damn good thrashing.

for starters you cant make it go away unless you pay their dishonest demand.

They rely to a great extent on this,

people getting fed up with the time it all takes to get to a conclusion

. Bear in mind that ignoring them for the moment costs you nothing in time and money.

As said,

they dont have a case,

you entered into an individual contract with the bloke on the gate so all other terms are irrelevant.

as for keeper etc not relevant,

the contract is with the driver anyway

(POFA can transfer that liability under certain conditions)

so they are chasing the right person,

a rarity in itself with these companies.

Ignore any debt collection agencies and let us know if you get a solicitors letter, that will probably need addressing

Thanks so much for your reply.

It really helped at a very worrying time.

I have done my best to copy and attach the documents I have received to date.

Since my last post, I have received what I believe to be a letter before action.

Please see attached and I'd be so grateful if you could let me know if I need to act.

Just to say thanks so much for your reply.

Really kind of you.

I have just posted the documents.

Parking invoice 18.10.17.pdf

I don't think it's a letter before action at all (wait for the experts though). They are only threatening to involve a "debt recovery agency" - who can do nothing! The buffoons even admit "Pay and Display Ticket was face down" which means you paid and the law is on your side.

it is not a letter before action (that term has changed since october),

it is nothing more than a threat of unspecified action and by debt recovery we can presume they will give some muppet the job of sending out the next threatogram and probably say the amount due is now £160 or £199 are some other made up amount.

The law only allows them to charge the agreed sum by way of damages, not add on a unicorn food tax because they now feel like it.

They are hoping that you are now scared that the sum demanded appears to be going up and up and that you will be frightened into paying it just to stop the amount getting past the value of your house and you have to flee the country.

Ignore them further.

Thanks ever so much for your prompt replies.

I can't personally believe a company would become so aggressive in their correspondence over just an upside-down ticket and think they can justify charging me that amount of money for something as harmless as that

- particularly as their attendant took my sodding money!

that is how they make their money,

not by you paying to park,

someone else usually gets that.

the landowner doesnt appreciate all of this when they sign on the dotted line.

Often it isnt the landowner who signs them up but an agent who possibly stands to make a few quid for themselves as you will se in many residential developments

particularly as their attendant took my sodding money!

And THAT is the point you have to remember. Whether or not the ticket was upside down, locked in the boot or in your back pocket. You paid, the parking company lost nothing. So that is the true value of their claim... Nothing!

Prepare yourself for the usual deluge of increasingly desperate and threatening letters from their chosen tame Debt Collectors, but console yourself in the knowledge that the only power that they have (the DCA) is to waste paper by writing to you. There's usually a chain of 3 or 4 letters, the last of which will be a "reduced" payment offer (ain't that kind of them). That's the DCA's last ditch attempt to at least get something out of you so that they can cover the price of postage for all the other junk mail they've sent you.

They'll stop just short of threatening to sell your family into slavery if you don't roll over and pay up, but that's all they are, empty threats.

The only folks that can take any further action are HX, and like I said at the start, ultimately they've lost nothing because you paid, so what exactly are they going to claim for?

Thanks ever so much for your prompt replies.

 

I can't personally believe a company would become so aggressive in their correspondence over just an upside-down ticket and think they can justify charging me that amount of money for something as harmless as that

- particularly as their attendant took my sodding money!

You may not know that these people were previously car clampers, does that help to explain it more?

HB

to reiterate dragonfly's post and to repeat what I posted earlier,

you spoke to the bod on the gate and that way you formed an individually negotiated contract.

Their signs were made redundant at that point.

They have no claim, the variation to the unilateral contract offered by the signs id not really to their detriment and the bd had the authority to act in thier name.

They are being dishonest and greedy or maybe too ignorant of the law their business relies on as to make them a pathetic bunch of amateurs.

Either way they dont have a leg to stand on so no need to give them any credit

I received a letter before action from Gladstones dated 29/01/18.

Somehow I thought I had 30 days to reply to defend but now I have come to deal with it properly I think I should have replied within 14 days.

Have I messed up and will I now have to pay up?

Thanks for your continued support.

Hello again.

I doubt if you have anything to worry about, it isn't a court claim form. But please wait for the forum experts to comment. Can you post up a redacted copy of their letter please?

HB

a lba is a warning that the claimant is obliged to send out to give you a chance to either pay up or argue about the debt before court action is taken and thus saving the costs of a court case.

So, you are not defending anything,

you dont have to respond and can ignore it if you wish but then they are able to start a court claim and not be knocked back on procedure.

it doesnt make anything right or wrong as far as the actual claim goes and that is their problem,

they dont have a valid claim and I would get that the lba is too vague and included the additional charges they want to add to feather thier own nest rather than just the contractual (well, allegedl ) sum.

Post up their letter and we can then offer a response should you wish to do so.

Any response can be used as evidence so a very strongly worded letter can make it clear that their claim, if made, is unreasonable behaviour and that will get you a full costs recovery order but saying nothing may well limit that expenses claim to just the travel to court costs for the day.

I received a letter before action from Gladstones dated 29/01/18. Somehow I thought I had 30 days to reply to defend but now I have come to deal with it properly I think I should have replied within 14 days. Have I messed up and will I now have to pay up? Thanks for your continued support.

Ericsbrother you are amazing. Thanks for the explanation when I was having a major wobble. I'll hopefully post up to you later today. I have to work for the moment. Thanks again.

Please find attached Letter Before Action. Any help with replying much appreciated.

Parking LBA.compressed.pdf

reg showing hidden

but we don't really need to see it

we know what they say

it is always best to respond to a proper lba so i would suggest something along the lines of:

Dear Will and John,

although you are the parking world's most famous solicitors whose reputation goes before you I must point out that clairvoyance isnt your strongest suit.

an individually negotiated contract was entered into by the driver when he paid the attendant to park there and applied the receipt to the windscreen of the vehicle and that is superior to any signage offering a unilateral contract.

However, there was no breach of the conditions offered by the signage and a casual observer would think that the demands by your client are nothing more than an attempt to gain a pecuniary advantage by misrepresentation.

I agree there has been a breach of contract but that breach was by your clients but I am not seeking remedy for that nor for their breach of the DPA for obtaining my keeper details contracry to the KADOE contract or for doing so after the time allowed under s11(1)(b) of the POFA which means they would have no right to enforce even if ther spurious claim was valid. I will howver seek a full costs recovery order for their unreasonable behaviour shoudl they go ahead with a claim

Thanks so much Ericsbrother.

Could I just ask whether DPA applies on the basis that my former partner gave them my details?

Do I need to mention that I have the ticket as evidence?

Many thanks