A good family friend has found herself in a very awkward situation through no real fault of her own other than naive ignorance.

I’ll try to keep this short and to the point.

She is in private rented accom and has been since Oct 11 on an initial 12 mth AST.

Terms of tenancy were £575, 30th every month.

Paid a £1500 cash deposit and initial rental advance but this was never placed into a TDS scheme and the AST reads no deposit paid so an additional £57 per week to be paid until 1 months rent was held in advance.

Also written into AST is that all rent payments to be paid through her mothers account and a/c details noted.

LL has always however called every 4 weeks to collect rent of £600 and naively without questioning it the tenant has paid.

She is the mother if 6 young children and pregnant with no7, her partner is a hard working bloke who provides for all of them.

The rent has never been in arrears and always paid on time when landlord has called.

This landlord has also called each year to demand sums if upto £1500 to “let them stay there”, again naively, she paid, fearful that she would be evicted if she didnt.

This year same thing,

landlord calls for his annual lump sum but is told no this time, not getting it.

Earlier in the year, around march, he issued them with a s21 to quit the property which expired on 31/5/2017,

despite this he has still happily called every 4 weeks instead of every month for his £600 rent which has duly been paid on request.

On 7th december, there was a possession order granted giving her until 21/12/2017 to vacate the property and she is now terrified that bailiffs will call to kick her and her family out before xmas.

In a bid to gain her some time i have suggested that a set aside application should be immediately filed on the grounds that the LL has received over the years,

far in excess of what the actual rent due should have been

and as a consequence the rent is now well in advance,

by thousands i should imagine

but at this time i haven't done any kind if spreadsheet to give an exact figure.

It is fair to say that the LL will eventually have his way and hav her remived to wherever but if there is anything i can do to help slow down the process then i will.

I dont know enough about s21 atm to know whether it would be valid given that everything was upto date etc and since its expiry,

the LL has been happy to carry on collecting rent on a 4 week instead of monthly basis and will read what i can find to gen up but any advice here on a pretty urgent basis would be most welcome.

It is hoped that any bailiff involvement and eviction can at least be put off for a few months to allow them to gather enough cash to rent elsewhere.

Thanks in advance for any help offered and if i can I’ll answer any queries or find out from her.

Martin, does your friend have proof of all the payments made to the landlord?

HB

a couple of initial points

it seems that a s21 can't be used if a tenants deposit has not been put into the deposit scheme. so there might be a procedural error there.

did they not try challenge the initial application for possession.

if they don't leave, LL would need to go for a warrant for eg which can be suspended upon application.

Martin, does your friend have proof of all the payments made to the landlord?

 

HB

I hope for her sake she has bank statements to prove all the payments she made

a couple of initial points

it seems that a s21 can't be used if a tenants deposit has not been put into the deposit scheme. so there might be a procedural error there.

 

did they not try challenge the initial application for possession.

 

if they don't leave, LL would need to go for a warrant for eg which can be suspended upon application.

Sadly they are a young family and when the LL has turned up and demamded money, so she can stay in the property, she has blindly oaid as he tends to do this around november, she simply panics that she will be kicked out just before xmas and finds it from anywhere she can.

She has basically sat back not knowing what to do or how to deal with it until now when it could all be too late for me to help her.

Im trying to buy her and her partner some time at least to get some cash together to rent another property from a respectable agency.

ok, so the LL got the possession without a challenge/hearing.

and there is no claim for arrears.

you mentioned possibly setting aside the possession order (n244?). an invalid s21 could lend support there.

and also re a warrant (court bailiffs) suspension if it gets that far.

Thread moved to the appropriate forum.

Andy

From what i can glean from the act, even if the s21 were valid, which it appears not be given that the £1500 deposit and advance rent were not placed into a TDS, then any overpayment or advance payment of rent, as in colecting rent every 4 weeks instead of monthly and at £25 a time over the prescribed rent in the AST, then this must also be returned to the tenant.

Apolgies Andy if i posted in the wrong section, i thought general legal was correct for this.

I am hoping Ell-enn and or Mariner can offer some enlightenment if possible.

Martin2006

As you want to help them,

they need a Lawyer familiar with Court & Bailiff process.

Without recomending either you could ring Paul Shamplina (Landlord Action) or Chris Sharp (The Landlord Group) for initial advice.

Both run firms which guide LLs through the whole eviction process with Lawyers available across UK,to attend Court if nec.

Bank statements are pretty useless as it only provides date and amount paid, not what it was for.

Bank may be able to provide copy of original cheque once cleared or explain the recipients codes on the Statement.

An itemised, signed receipt is a Must for any cash payments.

Have you checked with all Approved Deposit Schemes if the Deposit was duly protected by them?

If NO the s21 is invalid & LL must return deposit before issuing another,r valid, s21.

Get T to compile list of all rent payments, with dates, including payments made for Right to Remain a T (a Tax [problem]?).

Tell her to only pay rent to the account specified in the AST or to the LL/Agent (get a signed receipt.

Hi

S21 to quit expired 31/5/2017.

7/12/2017 Possession Order Granted for Possession on 21/12/2017

Did they recieve Court Papers and did they Defend the Possession Order?

Agree they need to urgently try to get this set aside using N244

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/eviction/how_to_get_a_eviction_court_order_changed

Tenancy deposit protection: https://www.gov.uk/tenancy-deposit-protection

Section 21 Notice for it to be valid the Deposit would have to be Protected.

Evicting tenants (England and Wales): https://www.gov.uk/evicting-tenants/section-21-and-section-8-notices

 

Apolgies Andy if i posted in the wrong section, i thought general legal was correct for this.

No worries Martin..you will get a better response here.

Andy

 

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/eviction/how_to_get_a_eviction_court_order_changed

 

 

I agree - contacting Shelter is a must - they are very good at this kind of situation.

I am hoping Ell-enn and or Mariner can offer some enlightenment if possible.

ah, did my posts not provide 'some enlightenment' as to a couple of ways to search up on

Martin2006

 

As you want to help them,

they need a Lawyer familiar with Court & Bailiff process.

 

Without recomending either you could ring Paul Shamplina (Landlord Action) or Chris Sharp (The Landlord Group) for initial advice.

Both run firms which guide LLs through the whole eviction process with Lawyers available across UK,to attend Court if nec.

 

Bank statements are pretty useless as it only provides date and amount paid, not what it was for.

Bank may be able to provide copy of original cheque once cleared or explain the recipients codes on the Statement.

An itemised, signed receipt is a Must for any cash payments.

 

Have you checked with all Approved Deposit Schemes if the Deposit was duly protected by them?

If NO the s21 is invalid & LL must return deposit before issuing another,r valid, s21.

 

Get T to compile list of all rent payments, with dates, including payments made for Right to Remain a T (a Tax [problem]?).

Tell her to only pay rent to the account specified in the AST or to the LL/Agent (get a signed receipt.

Thankyou for this Mariner, i was hoping that the invalidity of the s21 was goid enough grounds to apply to set aside and it would appear so.

Very grateful for the info.

Hi

 

S21 to quit expired 31/5/2017.

 

7/12/2017 Possession Order Granted for Possession on 21/12/2017

 

Did they recieve Court Papers and did they Defend the Possession Order?

 

Agree they need to urgently try to get this set aside using N244

 

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/eviction/how_to_get_a_eviction_court_order_changed

 

 

 

 

Tenancy deposit protection: https://www.gov.uk/tenancy-deposit-protection

 

Section 21 Notice for it to be valid the Deposit would have to be Protected.

 

Evicting tenants (England and Wales): https://www.gov.uk/evicting-tenants/section-21-and-section-8-notices

Excellent stu007 thankyou

ah, did my posts not provide 'some enlightenment' as to a couple of ways to search up on

Of course you did Ford, you pointed me in the right direction re the S21 invalidity, i knew tho that both Ell-enn and Mariner have a huge amount of experience in both rental and court procedure.

I am and our friend will be eternally grateful

i knew tho that both Ell-enn and Mariner have a huge amount of experience in both rental and court procedure.

 

i know. i was just kidding around abit

good luck with it.

For the N244, should any supporting documentation be filed with the application or is that later in the process, should the application be successful?

Hi, yes you can add any supporting documentation you want the judge to look at. Make sure you write at the top of each affixed document the name and case number and staple everything securely together to form a pack. You will also need a copy of it all so you have everything you need to refer to in the hearing.

When you take theN244 to court as if there are any duty legals in attendance on the day of the hearing - you can approach them and they will support your case in the hearing.

Brilliant Ell-enn thankyou

I forgot to say that you should refer to any additional documents in the statement part of the N244 (i.e. the story) so the judge knows to look for them

Yh i would do that as a matter of course, thanks Ell-enn

Set aside was in on thursday, see how this pans out for them.

They were due to leave by 21st but are still there.

We are hoping at a bare minimum that it buys them some time to find a new home, for now tho they are staying put.

For readers info,

the tenants had actually overpaid rent to the tune of £7500 and the LL although he took a £1500 deposit has not protected it in a TDS so the main grounds for the set aside are that the s21 is invalid.

My understanding is that he must return the deposit and any overpaid rent prior to issuing a new and valid S21.

The other option,

if the set aside is successful is to place the deposit in a TDS and allow them to continue to stay until the overpaid rent runs out, or 12.35 months to be exact.

The worst case scenario is that the set aside is unsuccessful and they are evicted but even that will take time, hopefully time enough to find them somewhere.

This one should get interesting as things move on.

He has to return the Deposit but not the overpaid rent before he can re-serve a new s21.