Hi,

I'm after some advice please.

We recently had a visit from the HCEO following an unpaid Water debt.

In our panic (at 7am with kids in the house) we paid the full amount - which was double the actual bill.

We just wanted them out of the house ASAP.

Since then I have asked for a breakdown of fees as I felt they had charged us too much. Below is the breakdown

Description Amount Writ amount £1,515.21

Interest on Writ amount (@8%) from date of Writ to date of paid in full £0.00

Compliance Fee £90.00

Enforcement Stage 1 Fee £228.00

7.5% Fee of amount over £1,000.00 (variable Stage 1 fee) £46.37

Enforcement Stage 2 Fee £594.00

Sale or Disposal Fee £630.00

7.5% Fee of amount over £1,000.00 (variable Sale or Disposal Fee) £37.37

Total £3,140.95

Total amount paid to date £3,140.95

The above fees are inclusive of VAT at 20%

I would refer you to The Taking Control of Goods (Fees) Regulations 2014, Regulation 6, to assist you in understanding how the fees are applied

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/en/uksi/2014/1/regulation/6/made

There is no requirement to actually remove goods for the Sale or Disposal fee and 7.5% fee to be applicable, the commencement of the process is sufficient for the application of the sale or disposal stage fee.

Could someone please tell me if this is correct

I was under the impression that Sale or Disposal fee didn't come into effect just because they entered the house.

Many Thanks

Which company?

Court Enforcement Services on behalf of South East Water

Did they come into your home and take control of any goods. Such as a car etc. What goods did they take control of.

Hi please be patient I am sure our caggers wil be along to assist, in the meantime have a look at this CAG link:

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?453292-Bailiff-enforcement-A-Simple-Guide-to-the-Taking-Control-of-Goods-Regulations

Did they come into your home and take control of any goods. Such as a car etc. What goods did they take control of.

Nope no goods were taken control of. They came in and started to compile a list whilst we made phone calls to get the funds. Nothing was signed for and they never gave an inventory or anything like that.

Going back to before all this happened.

Were you aware you owed this debt?

Did you get all the Court documentation?

Did you attend or defend the action? Did you receive notification a CCJ was awarded against you?

Before CES turned up did you receive a Notice of Enforcement from them?

If so did you make contact with them prior to their visit?

 

We recently had a visit from the HCEO following an unpaid Water debt.

 

In our panic (at 7am with kids in the house) we paid the full amount - which was double the actual bill.

 

Since then I have asked for a breakdown of fees as I felt they had charged us too much. Below is the breakdown

 

Writ amount £1,515.21

 

Interest on Writ amount (@8%) from date of Writ to date of paid in full £0.00

 

Compliance Fee £90.00

 

Enforcement Stage 1 Fee £228.00

 

7.5% Fee of amount over £1,000.00 (variable Stage 1 fee) £46.37

 

Enforcement Stage 2 Fee £594.00

 

Sale or Disposal Fee £630.00

 

7.5% Fee of amount over £1,000.00 (variable Sale or Disposal Fee) £37.37

 

Total £3,140.95

 

The above fees are inclusive of VAT at 20%

 

Ploddertom has raised a number of questions which are important. If you could respond that would be most helpful.

To assist in understanding the fee scale in relation to the enforcement of Writs of Control, it may help to read the following which is from Item 7.3 of the Explanatory Memorandum supporting the Taking Control of Goods (Fees) Regulations 2014:

While the fee structure applies across debt streams, there are two separate fee levels – one for High Court Enforcement and one for non-High Court Enforcement, with the High Court level containing higher fees. This reflects the findings in the 2009 independent report5 that High Court Enforcement has a higher cost base due to the personal responsibility of a High Court Enforcement Officer (who has writs addressed directly to them) and the fact that they enforce higher value debts.

 

The personal liability of the High Court Enforcement Officer has also necessitated the need for High Court enforcement to have first and second enforcement stages with the associated fees. The fee structure for High Court cases also introduces an incentive to enter into, and adhere to, an affordable controlled goods agreement.

 

Unless a debtor pays in full at the compliance stage, the enforcement agent is obliged to visit the debtor in every High Court case in order to take control of goods, thereby triggering the first enforcement stage.

 

If the enforcement agent is then unable to enter into a controlled goods agreement (and has to take control of goods in another manner) or a debtor defaults on a controlled goods agreement, the enforcement agent will be under an obligation to remove goods and therefore the second enforcement stage fee will also apply.

 

For non-High Court debt there is no such obligation and therefore we have introduced an incentive to enter into an agreement without taking control of goods at the (earlier) compliance stage which avoids triggering the enforcement stage with its larger fee.

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2014/1/pdfs/uksiem_20140001_en.pdf

The High Court Enforcement Officers Association (HCEOA) issued the following Fees Best Practice document earlier this year.

https://www.hceoa.org.uk/images/content/documents/fees-best-practice/HCEOA-Best-Practice-Fees.html#p=4

Frequently asked Questions page:

https://www.hceoa.org.uk/faqs/have-you-been-visited-by-a-high-court-enforcement-officer

Going back to before all this happened.

 

Were you aware you owed this debt?

Did you get all the Court documentation?

Did you attend or defend the action? Did you receive notification a CCJ was awarded against you?

 

Before CES turned up did you receive a Notice of Enforcement from them?

If so did you make contact with them prior to their visit?

Yes I was aware that we owed the debt and am not disputing that at all.

No we didn't go to court to defend. When we received a letter from the HCEO I emailed them asking to set up a payment plan.

I didn't hear back from them after a few weeks. I then went to search my emails to resend the original email to them again. I then found their reply in my spam folder. As soon as I found it I emailed them straight back and sent them the 1st payment (The email stated they had agreed to my offer a few weeks previous).

3 days later we had a visit from the HCEO. I even showed them the emails and the proof of payment (which they had on their files) but they said it was too late.

Ploddertom has raised a number of questions which are important. If you could respond that would be most helpful.

 

To assist in understanding the fee scale in relation to the enforcement of Writs of Control, it may help to read the following which is from Item 7.3 of the Explanatory Memorandum supporting the Taking Control of Goods (Fees) Regulations 2014:

 

 

 

The High Court Enforcement Officers Association (HCEOA) issued the following Fees Best Practice document earlier this year.

 

https://www.hceoa.org.uk/images/content/documents/fees-best-practice/HCEOA-Best-Practice-Fees.html#p=4

 

 

Frequently asked Questions page:

 

https://www.hceoa.org.uk/faqs/have-you-been-visited-by-a-high-court-enforcement-officer

I never filled in or entered a CGA at any time

Yes I was aware that we owed the debt and am not disputing that at all.

No we didn't go to court to defend. When we received a letter from the HCEO I emailed them asking to set up a payment plan.

 

I didn't hear back from them after a few weeks. I then went to search my emails to resend the original email to them again. I then found their reply in my spam folder. As soon as I found it I emailed them straight back and sent them the 1st payment (The email stated they had agreed to my offer a few weeks previous).

 

3 days later we had a visit from the HCEO. I even showed them the emails and the proof of payment (which they had on their files) but they said it was too late.

Essentially you broke any agreement that was made.

It may have been coincidental that a visit was made after you making a payment.

On the face of things you would owe the debt outstanding to SE Water + HCEO Compliance Fee

(if payment had been made in full at this stage then no other fees would have been applicable)

+ 1st Stage Enforcement Fee (regardless of any agreement they still have to visit to make or agree a Controlled Goods Agreement).

They do have an argument for having charged the 2nd Stage Enforcement Fee

but you also have a right to challenge this seeing as they only made the one visit to you and charged both Enforcement Fees at the same time.

I can see no valid reason why they have charged the Sale and/or Disposal Fee and this must be challenged.

They should be able to provide an accurate record as to why both the 2nd Stage Enforcement Fee & the Sale and/or Disposal Fee have been charged.

You should write to them ASAP over this and would suggest an initial complaint by email followed up with a letter.

Thank you Ploddertom.

Is there a standard template on this site regarding requesting fee breakdown/complaints etc.

I shall send them an official complaint this week.

There is no such standard template these days as each case is different. I would hazard a guess you will get a standard response from CES to say they did nothing wrong but it is a start. The good thing is that having paid in full you are safe knowing there will be no further knocks on the door.