Hi everyone,

I just joined this site after a friend recommended it.

Can you help me please?

I got a fine from Newham Council for stopping on box junction.

I believe you can stop if the lanes in front are clear,

as you can see from link below the left one is clear

so therefore would I be successful if I appeal?

I don’t want to appeal if I will fail and then have to pay the full 150 and not discounted 65 if I pay within 2 weeks.

.I would appreciate your advice.

Thank you, rai

Hello and welcome to CAG.

I can't see your link, are you having trouble uploading it? If you click on the word upload in my post, you go to another screen with instructions.

Best, HB

It won’t let me send link, I’m too new to send it..

upload

Here’s the pic. Thanks

PDF please as the guide asks then we can zoom

have you looked at the video too?

I believe you can stop if the lanes in front are clear.

No, you cannot stop in a box junction unless your turning right and your exit is clear

You need to see the video, to see exactly how long you were actually stationary. The stills are taken 8 seconds apart during which time you had crossed the box.

as you can see from link below the left one is clear

No, it was blocked by the car turning left into Barking Road

I believe you can stop if the lanes in front are clear

If you plan to use that as a point of appeal, you will lose!

The Highway Code rule 174 states: "You must not enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear." The only exception is if you want to turn right.

Your lane was not clear and you were not turning right. So as an appeal point, that would be a non starter.

To be honest, having looked at the picture, I'd be tempted to pay up at the discounted rate while you've got the chance.

I note that the car pulling onto your road from the left appears to pass between the kerb and the box

so this junction will need approval as it is a non standard design.

Ask for sight of the authorisation for the marking out,

you may be lucky and the council/TfL dont have it.

Hurry though,

if they do you may get timed out for the discount period

phone them and ask and request it is put on hold until you have seen the secretary of state approval.

EB may have something there. As the box doesn't conform to diagram 1044 in the TRSGD 2016 (as amended) and 1043 isn't applicable as the box is only on a single carriageway, you may be able to challenge them on these grounds.

However, EB has phrased it slightly incorrectly. It is not the junction that needs approval, but the road markings. And that approval (for variation) is only given by the DfT, so neither the council or TfL can unilaterally decide 'ahh, that'll do'.

Got to be worth a shot at least.

http://tsrgd.co.uk/pdf/tsm/tsm-chapter-05.pdf

Page 76 is dimensions for box.

Without actually measuring it it looks at 1st sight to conform.

I'd find it hard to believe that the side road is over 30 metres wide

DF knew what I meant but yes, you had better get the wording right or they will use the incorrest description to reject your submissions.

My question is this:

1. I entered the same yellow box.

2. Exit was blocked by a line of 4 or 5 cars waiting to turn right at Streatfield Ave.

3. I too was turning right at Streatfield Ave.

4. I had my right indicator on (which you cannot tell from the images, but was true nonetheless).

I have received a PCN.

My understanding was that you COULD stop in a YBJ IF you were turning right and were blocked by cars in the opposite lanes OR cars ALSO waiting to turn right (like you).

Is this true for the Barking Road - Wellington Road junction? (given that the right turn onto Streatfield Ave is about 4 car lengths outside the yellow box). Does the right turn have to be one that you make within the tiny yellow box Newham council have painted there?

My understanding was that you COULD stop in a YBJ IF you were turning right

Yes, butonly if you are turning right out of the YBJ, not at the next road junction further up the road

Does the right turn have to be one that you make within the tiny yellow box Newham council have painted there?

Yes

Thanks

I can see why large numbers of people complain about this one YBJ. I couldn't believe when I googled it... I have a browser window open atm with over 30 tabs to different forums and websites all talking about this one intersection. Seems that the council are using it as a possibly unfair way to raise revenue, rather than for any safety or traffic flow feature - made all the more 'entrapping' by the fact that there are right turns just before (latimer) and just after (streatfield) the junction box.

THe YBJ is presumably to enable traffic to turn right out of Wellington Road