I bought a Toyota Auris brand new back in Oct of 2015 which falls under the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

The car has been extremely unreliable and broken down 8 times in the past 12 months,

7 of those occassions being within the past 6 months.

It has had the EGR Valve replaced twice,

been in twice for a "loose wire on the airflow meter"

once for "loose pipe on a gasket"

and even had the ECU replaced,

despite all this it still suffers from a problem in which the cruise control repeatedly switches off.

Toyota had no explanation for this at the time I told them I wanted to reject the vehicle which was back in June of this year.

I have gone down the route of rejecting the vehicle, which Toyota have refused to accept.

I have even reached out to the Financial Ombudsman and given them all the information about the repairs but their response was that my accounts of the repairs did not match Toyota's, at which point I realised that Toyota had actually lied about the number of times that the vehicle had been repaired.

The fact that all the repairs were carried out under warrnty means that I have no receipts or eveidence as such to prove anything,

but I did speak to the dealer whose list of repairs supported what I had said but refused to give me a copy of it.

The CRA 2015 clearly states that a manufacturer has the right to attempt one repair and if the product is not fit for purpose after that repair the consumer has the right to reject it.

My question is;

what are my options after this has been reviewed by the Financial Ombudsman who has ruled against my case?

I would also like to add that at one point I received a letter from the Financial Ombudsman stating that they supported my claim and agreed that I should be able to return the vehicle, but the day after they changed their mind.

They had spoken with Toyota who said that the car is now "fixed".

But they have "fixed" it several times in the past which has turned out not to be fixed because it broke down again, and again, and again.

The real significant benefits of the Consumer Rights Act relate to problems which occur in the first six months – especially the first 30 days. You have gone well beyond that so your rights under the new act are broadly the same as they were under the Sale of Goods Act.

You are entitled to expect that the vehicle which you have bought remains in satisfactory condition for a reasonable period of time. From what you say, it seems clear that your reasoned expectations have not been met.

I'm not too sure why you went to the financial ombudsman about this. However, what it does mean is that the financial ombudsman will have some correspondence from Toyota or whoever the supplier was. I think that the first thing to do is to obtain copies of all the correspondence they have relating to this and you can do this by submitting a Freedom of Information Act request which costs nothing and which the FOS must comply with within 20 days. In practice you will probably find that the FOS is pretty good about this. You don't need to make the request in writing. You can even make it on the telephone. I suggest that you call them on Monday and tell them that you want copies of all correspondence. Ask them if you need to make a formal FOI request. If they say yes then simply make it by email. Simply asked for all information they hold in relation to your particular dispute. Whether you're doing it on the telephone or by email, tell them that electronic copies of all the documents are perfectly acceptable. I made an FOI request of the FOS in relation to a PPI dispute which I have ongoing with Lloyds and the FOS emailed me a large quantity of documents the very same day.

Also, send the dealer and Toyota each an SAR. Asked for all information which they hold on you in any form including telephone records, correspondence both internal and external, screen notes et cetera.

This will take up to 40 days and will cost you £10 each SAR.

While you're waiting for these assemble all your own evidence in an orderly fashion and also right out a nice chronological bullet pointed statement of everything that has happened.

It would be helpful if you could post that here.

Hi Bankfodder.

I'll contact the FOS with regards to the FOI tomorrow.

I initially contacted Citizens' Advice who said that due to the fact that I had bought the car through a finance agreement, I should pursue Toyota Financial Services and leave the dealer out of it. Once they ruled against my case I again contacted Citizen's Advice who advised that this is a financial dispute and that I should escalate it to the FOS. They also advised that whilst there is the short term rejection period of 30 days, there is also a long term right to reject which is in place for several years and that I was well past the point at which I needed to be to reject the car.

The long-term right to reject exists only for the first six months after the date of the contract.

Of course you should be putting in a claim with the finance company. Did you actually do this? Is this why it went to the FOS?

In addition to the chronology that I have suggested you put together, I think it would be a good idea if you prepared a separate statement simply itemising all of the faults which have developed – including dates, remedy or action taken and the cost to you. Also inconvenience in number of hours to you. I think it would be helpful to put this into a spreadsheet.

Another question: you say that the dealer has refused to provide you with a copy of the repairs history. Did you ask this in writing? Was the refusal provided to you in writing?

Yet another question: are you dealing with them on the telephone? If so I suppose that you are not recording your calls. Please read our customer services guide and implement the advice there immediately. Then have further telephone calls with the supplier and steer the call in such a way that you get various admissions such as their refusal to supply you with the repairs history. You could usefully ask them also whether they thought that the breakdown pattern of your vehicle was normal. Everything that you can get on the telephone recording will be extremely useful.

I should tell you now that it is highly likely that you will have to issue legal proceedings in the County Court. Don't worry, it is straightforward – very easy and we will help you. The more information you get in advance then the more likely they are to put their hands up.

I'd like to know more about the warranty. You may well have a claim against Toyota and also against the dealer.

After consulting with CA (Citizen's Advice) I contacted TFS (Toyota Fincance Services) stating that we wished to reject the vehicle.

TFS said that I had been misinformed by CA and that I had no right to reject or even claim any sort of compensation.

CA did at one point state that I could claim a reduction against the vehicle which TFS snubbed.

I have a Word document which I sent to TFS and have tried to upload it here but get the following error message..

.. The following errors occurred:

Letter to complain about faulty goods bought on hire purchase

You should upload documents in PDF format. Also, in what form did you receive this rejection from TFS? Was it in writing?

I made the request over the phone and was under the impression that it is illegal to record someone without their consent?

I have attached a copy of the letter that we sent to Toyota. The car has been back to the dealer a further 2 or 3 times since.

You should upload documents in PDF format. Also, in what form did you receive this rejection from TFS? Was it in writing?

In writing.

Letter to complain about faulty goods bought on hire purchase Copy.pdf

Please post up the TFS response – and also any response which you have received from Toyota.

Read our customer services guide. It's not unlawful to record material if it's for your own use – and in any case what are they going to do, sue you? For your own use includes (in my view) used by way of evidence in a complaint or in legal proceedings. You would not be entitled to post it up on social media – but once again, what are they going to do? Sue you?

TFS response.

This was the FOS first letter supporting our claim. The day after they "changed their mind".

TFS Response Letter.pdf

FOS 1st response.pdf

moved to the correct forum

dx

FOS final response.....

Dear Mr and Mrs Parkinson

Thank you for speaking with me today.

I’ve had a look at everything again and considered the further points, you and Toyota Finance have raised and I’m afraid I don’t think the vehicle should be rejected.

You’ve said you still think the car is faulty due to cruise control not working properly.

You’ve also said you don’t want to car and believe it is still faulty.

Toyota Finance have said the cruise control fault is a characteristic of the car.

They’ve said they don’t think the car is faulty.

Both you and Toyota Finance have said different things about the garage’s notes.

I’ve spoken to a member of staff at the garage and asked him for notes on the car.

The member of staff at the garage said the car was not faulty.

He explained the car had no fault codes and despite testing the car, they couldn’t replicate the fault you suffered from.

At this time, the garage have said there is currently no fault with the car.

So I can’t say it should be right to reject the car.

I know you don’t think this follows the advice Trading Standards had explained and they’re right in saying Toyota should have a chance to repair the car.

I know they’ve had a few chances to repair the car but these are for different faults.

Whilst I agree a car of this age and mileage shouldn’t experience this many problems, at this point I can see they’re resolved and currently aren’t re-occurring.

I appreciate it’s frustrating as you’ve had to visit a few times and for the same issues but as the car is currently working I can’t say it’d be fair to reject the car.

I know you’ve explained they had two chances regarding the EGR valve to make repairs which doesn’t follow what Trading Standards have said.

But I have to look at what’s fair and reasonable and Toyota Finance at the point you said you wanted to reject the car in 27 June 2017, it had been repaired.

So whilst I think you could’ve rejected the car on this basis- it would’ve have had to have been before it’d been repaired.

Should there continue to be any problems with the EGR valve, I do think discussions can be had about rejecting the car.

But from the evidence, as the car’s working I can’t say it should be rejected.

Toyota have had the chance to repair the car and as there is currently no manufacturing fault that’s irreparable, I’m afraid I don’t think the car should be rejected.

As you have your manufacturer’s warranty it covers the car for 5 years should you have any issues. I think it’s fair to rely on this, unless there are continual faults with the car which can’t be repaired at all.

I know this is not what you want to hear, but I can help to arrange with Toyota, either voluntary termination or voluntary surrender.

With the termination, you’d have to continue paying till 50% of the agreement’s been paid. Or alternatively, pay it at once, then the car can be handed in.

Voluntary surrender involves you finding a dealership to buy the car and this would pay off some of the finance.

moved to the correct forum

 

dx

Apologies DX.

Thank you.

The FOS is acknowleging the fact that the car has broken down multiple times for the same reason but still see it unfair to reject it.

No they say the car has been repaired for different faults and the fault your concentrating on cannot be replicated in the garage

What exactly is the alleged fault with the cruise control?

What Toyota claim is that the fault I am claiming is a "charateristic" of the car, yet they have had it in their possesion for the past two months and are claiming that the cruise control has not switched off once. To me this is contradictive?

So they cant replicate the problem.

Whilst driving with the cruise control on, it suddenly switches off.

The cruise control light goes out and it will not turn back on.

The only way I can get the cruise control back on is to park the car and restart it.

The cruise control then works again for an unknown period of time ranging from a few seconds to a few minutes and then switches off again.

One of the dealership employees said that their opinion was that it may have a faulty DPF and it needed taking in, which we did 2 months ago.

Another of the their employees dismissed what the other had said about the DPF claiming that he "was not technically minded".

So they cant replicate the problem.

No. But they have also said that it is a "charateristic" of the car for the cruise control to switch off. My question is; if it is supposed to happen, then why is it not doing it now?

At the time that I raised the cruise control issue Toyota said that they knew no reason why it would keep switching off.

They have since changed this to the charateristic reason.

One of the problems here is that they seem to be considering on the basis of the individual faults – each of which are repaired. Your position is really that the car is a lemon – in other words that it is constantly developing faults, can't be relied upon and you have lost confidence in it.

Although there are no specific lemon laws in this country look up – lemon laws – and lemon vehicles et cetera to get an idea of the kind of thing I'm talking about.

For the moment I think that it probably turns on whether you have more discernible faults or if the cruise control fault appears again and you are able to demonstrate it to someone.

Can you tell us more about the cruise control fault. Does it happen all the time? How often does it happen?

In the meantime, keep on doing all the other things I have suggested – FOIA requests, SAR requests, statements et cetera.

By the way, in addition to making the FOIA request of the FOS, you should write to them specifically and asked them if they will explain the reason for their change of opinion.

This was the FOS' response just two days after they sent the email saying they wuold uphold our claim.....

Yes, you have already posted that in an earlier post. What I mean is that you should ask them for a copy of the correspondence from Toyota which led them to change their mind.

I also think that in your letter should tell them that you note that far from saying there is no fault, Toyota are saying that there is a fault that it is characteristic or "typical" of that vehicle. That in view of the fact that there is no denial that there is a fault and that they say that it is typical, you fail to see how the FOS can possibly uphold Toyota against you.

Also I think you should say to the FOS that they are wrong in treating this matter is a series of individual faults. I think you should say to them that as there have been a series of faults, related or unrelated, which are clearly all admitted by Toyota except for the cruise control fault – although they agree that such a fault is typical of the vehicle, that they have effectively sold you "a lemon" and on that basis you expect the FOS to uphold your claim.

Tell them that in addition to the other things that I have suggested you do.

Draft the letters the FOS and post it here so that we can have a look before you send it.

There is a stretch of road on my way to and from work that has a 40mph speed limit

I often see mobile speed cameras along it,

I use the cruise control as a way of managing my speed if you will.

The first time it did it,

I felt the car slow down and noticed that the CC (Cruise Control) light had gone out.

I pressed the button several times only to find that it wouldn't switch back on.

On my way home I switched the CC back on and it worked.

The next time it did it,

which was several days later it crossed my mind to pull over and restart the engine, and again it temporarily solved the issue.

This went from 1-2 times per week to 1-2 times per each journey until eventually the amber engine warning light came on and I had to take it in to the dealer for which I think was one of the issues with the loose wire.

Once they had "fixed" this the CC worked normally again for a short period of time until yet again it started with the mild symptoms of switching off 1-2 times per week and eventually built up the point where again it was switching off daily.

Each time this happens it eventually leads to the amber engine warning light coming on.

The last time they fixed it the ECU had to be changed and we thought that would finally be the end of all the problems, but then within days the CC issue came back.

Knowing that this had previously been the early signs of a fault I contacted them asking them to look at the car,

but they said that unless the engine warning light comes on there is nothing they can do as no fault code would have been generated at that point.

I percivered with this for about 3-4 weeks until eventually I contacted them again insisting that they look at the car as it was unacceptable for them to simply say that there is nothing they can do about it.

The car has remained with them for the past 2 months and they state that the CC has not switched off once.

My argument is that they previously stated that this was a charateristic of the car and that it was supposed to switch off.

Cruise control is not used to slow you vehicle down, its set to maintain the current speed you are doing.

Well I know this is gonna be a huge hassle, but I think that you should take the car back and somehow rig a video so that you can get some footage of it happening at least once or twice – more often if possible within a few days. This will give you the leverage you need.

I'm afraid that it's going to be that difficult that if you can get that evidence then we can help you make a very good complaint and also claim compensation which might be quite substantial.

Get all the other evidence which I have suggested, prepare the statement I have suggested – but I think that you will need to get evidence of this cruise control problem in order to make headway. A complete nuisance and I sympathise with you

Actually the OP is using the cruise control outside the manufactures instructions.

The OP is using it to manage speed and forcing the car to slow down.

This is cruise control not a speed limiter system.

Here are the details on usage from manufactures

Constantly modulating the accelerator pedal on long drives can cause fatigue and decreased driver comfort.

Here are the following steps you will need to follow to take advantage of your Toyota cruise control.

1. Assess traffic. Be sure that the traffic ahead is moving at a constant pace. Setting your cruise control in stop and go traffic will not be beneficial.

2. Bring your Toyota to the desired speed. Manually bring the vehicle to speed using the accelerator pedal.

3. Engage the cruise control system.

On the right side of the driver steering wheel, locate the cruise control lever.

Press the button on the side of the cruise control stalk (labeled On-Off) to turn the system on.

Pull down on the lever once to set the speed.

4. Turn off the system.

If you need to turn the system off, you will need to press the button on the side of the cruise control stalk again.

If you only need to momentarily turn off cruise control, simply press on the brake pedal.

This is useful in case your Toyota is coming to close to the vehicle in front of you.

Warning:

The speed of the vehicle may vary a few miles depending on road elevation.

Be sure you are fully paying attention while driving with your Toyota cruise control system on.

Nowhere does it say it can be used to slow the car down.

I don't fully understand what your point is.

I get the car up to 40MPH, set the CC and let that manage the car's speed throughout the 40MPH zone.

What is wrong with using it in this way?

Well I know this is gonna be a huge hassle, but I think that you should take the car back and somehow rig a video so that you can get some footage of it happening at least once or twice – more often if possible within a few days. This will give you the leverage you need.

 

I'm afraid that it's going to be that difficult that if you can get that evidence then we can help you make a very good complaint and also claim compensation which might be quite substantial.

 

Get all the other evidence which I have suggested, prepare the statement I have suggested – but I think that you will need to get evidence of this cruise control problem in order to make headway. A complete nuisance and I sympathise with you

Will do. Thank you.

I don't fully understand what your point is. I get the car up to 40MPH, set the CC and let that manage the car's speed throughout the 40MPH zone. What is wrong with using it in this way?

You said you used it and felt the car slow down.

You're trying to use it as a speed limiter not cruise control.

Cruise control can vary the speed due to road conditions like angle etc.

Read what I posted.

Read the manufactures instructions.

Cruise control which is what you have fitted is not a speed limiter.

They are two different things.

You wrote.

I use the cruise control as a way of managing my speed if you will. The first time it did it, I felt the car slow down.

Cruise control just allows you to take your foot off the accelerator and roughly maintain the speed set at.

What your asking It to do is slow your speed down and maintain it under or at 40mph.