Marc Gander - The Consumer Survival Handbook


A 220 page introduction to all things consumer related by our own BankFodder.

Includes energy companies, mobile phone providers, retailers, banks, insurance companies,debt collection agencies, reclaim companies, secondhand car sellers, cowboy garages, cowboy builders and all the rest who put their own profits before you.

£6.99



Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

£19.99 + £1.50 (P&P)


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  1. #1
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    Default Sickness or bereavement leave?

    Hi everyone.
    I found myself in a difficult position.

    For the past couple of months I've been acting in a managerial position because our boss broke her leg.

    A couple of weeks ago a member of staff called me to say that her father in law had passed away and she wasn't in the right frame of mind to come to work and organise all the school run and babysitting while her husband went to Scotland to deal with the death.
    I said not to worry and i would have sorted it out.
    She took 3 days off in total.
    I put it down on the system as bereavementicon leave paid because the policy says that it is at manager discretion and when my grandmother died i got a week paid to go abroad.

    Payday came and this girl has not been paid for the 3 days.
    I queried with ho and they said: "we don't pay for bereavement leave".
    I pointed out the policy wording and they insisted that the policy is only a guidance.

    giving the bad news to this colleague,
    she pointed out that she didn't ask for bereavement leave, but sickness.
    In fact, she did say on the phone to me:
    "I'm too emotional at the moment and I'm not in the right frame of mind to come to work".

    Now, in normal circumstances i would be advising her as a union activist (note, not a rep anymore),
    but being personally involved i don't know if I'm going in the right direction.

    I contacted ho and told them that it was my mistake to put down bereavement leave instead of sickness,
    but of course they think I'm just trying to find a solution so she can get paid,
    having been the instigator of many wars during the years in favour of workers rights.

    They have said that she need to put a grievanceicon against me and then they'll follow the procedure.
    In other words they won't pay her in the end.

    I discussed this with her (ho knows that i would because I told them) and she said she wants to sue them if they don't pay up.

    She asked me if she can take them to county courticon instead of employment tribunal because she's not in the union and hasn't got money for a solicitor.

    What's your view?
    Thanks


  2. #2
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    Default Re: Sickness or bereavement leave?

    It sounds like head office are dealing with you this way because you are not a manager and are just 'acting as manager'.

    I have been in this position within a company and basically your name is not on a list to authorise things like paid bereavementicon.

    Once you become a manager, not just acting, you are treated totally differently because you get sign off authority. When you make a decision, that is it and you would not be overidden.

    Suggest you speak to another manager about this or if they are not available your manager who is off work.

    If the companies policy is discretionary, that is up to a manager with sign off authority to agree. You don't have this authority as an 'acting manager'.


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Sickness or bereavement leave?

    Can't really add to what UB has already posted

    I hate any policy which includes the word 'discretionary' as it will inevitably be in favour of some whilst extremely unpopular with others. bereavementicon is just such a case - some will be told to take whatever time is needed whilst others will be told to take unpaid time off at best or denied leave altogether at worst. There should be a firm policy to determine in what circumstances - nature of relationship, time allowed etc - so that it avoids such circumstances.

    The lady in question would almost certainly have been permitted time off to deal with a family emergency, but again here there is no entitlement to this being paid. I would agree therefore that if company sick pay is an automatic entitlement then this would have been the more appropriate option - she was not in a sufficient mental state to attend work

    Completely agree that you should speak to another manager about this - ideally one with sufficient authority to overrule Payroll, otherwise there will have to be the rigmarole of a grievanceicon, threats of an unlawful deduction or breach of contract and an inevitable payment for the three days anyway. Fact is she said she was reporting sick and you made a genuine mistake. There shouldn't really be a need for an argument!

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    Default Re: Sickness or bereavement leave?

    Was she even entitled to 3 days Co sick pay?
    I believe Govt Stat Sick Pay may not be payable for 1sr 3 days of Sick Leave.
    What is your injured Manager's opinion?


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Sickness or bereavement leave?

    Thanks for all the replies.
    As acting manager they have given me full authority , that was one of the basis i agreed to help them.
    Today i told them to find another muppet by Friday.
    Sickness is fully paid, so she should be paid.
    I spoke to my manager who broke a leg and she said: "that's typical of ho".
    Apparently they override managers' decisions all the time, especially with regards to saving money.
    In this case i made a mistake thinking that bereavementicon would be paid (they paid mine) and didn't even consider putting down sickness also because it would have triggered a warning for other sick leave she had taken.
    She's very angry and wants to start a full blast nuclear war.
    I suggested to wait for ho to answer to my second email in which i state again that it was my mistake, even though i know they will not bulge.
    She wants to recover the money, is county courticon an option or is it got to be ET?
    BTW, i don't want to be a manager, i was offered the position several times when i was young but i cannot become a yes man.


  6. #6
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    Default Re: Sickness or bereavement leave?

    county courticon not an option because bereavementicon pay is discretionary. ET not an option yet.

    She needs to raise a grievanceicon per companies policy and it will be dealt with.

    To be honest, if you had full authority to authorise this discretionary pay, you should also raise a grievance as well, because you will have a note on your employment file questioning you abusing your true level of authority while acting as manager. If you don't and you ever think about a promotion opportunity, you will question whether this instance has gone against you.

    This issue needs resolving for both you and the lady concerned.

    It would save you and the company a lot of time if you got another manager on your side to resolve this situation. The company are stupid to deny 3 days pay, when the cost of dealing with 2 grievances is likely to exceed the pay.


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Sickness or bereavement leave?

    And remember King, even if you never wanted to apply for promotion, this situation might affect how your colleagues perceive you in your current role. It only takes one person to mention it to someone that King let down a colleague by promising something he could not deliver. Then this spreads to other colleagues and people stop trusting you.

    You will therefore wish to take this very seriously. Either managers have responsibility to authorise discretionary pay or they don't. If they don't then the companies policy should simply state that referral to head office is required and local managers do not have authority.


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Sickness or bereavement leave?

    Thanks uncle.
    There's nothing in writing giving me full authority but when I was asked by the area manager he said so.
    My colleagues know that i always try to help them, so they know this is coming from ho, no doubt about it.
    I will submit a grievanceicon if they don't bulge.
    At the moment there's a bit of panic because they don't have another manager available and I'm going back to my normal duties on Friday.
    I got a call from a manager from a site in east London who has been asked to look after 2 sites at opposite ends of London.
    Of course this is impossible, but just shows how desperate they are.
    He was trying to convince me that it's not my problem and i should carry on without worrying about my colleagues.
    He probably forgot I'm not a manager!
    As far as I'm concerned they can get the area manager from his golf club to deal with the everyday rubbish at our site.


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Sickness or bereavement leave?

    Raise a grievanceicon without delay that they have undermined you as acting manager for the site and as a result, you are standing down as acting manager, because head office have made it impossible to continue. Provide exact details of what happened and the authority stated in the company policies.

    What you have said suggests that they will just try to ignore you, unless you make it official with a grievance.


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Sickness or bereavement leave?

    agree with UB, word it carefully so it is all about the countermanding of your instructions and authority in your capacity as manager rather than about the compassionate leave issue itself


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Sickness or bereavement leave?

    Thanks, Writing it now.
    Our manager (the one with broken leg and off sick) said that they override managers' decisions all the time but nobody ever said anything.
    Unfortunately given the many details i can't publish the grievanceicon here, but i get the union have a look before I submit.
    Also writing a grievance for the girl who didn't get paid.
    Fortunately a union rep at our site worked in the union legal dpt for a while and can get one of his mates have a look.
    Usually they don't get involved with basic disputes.



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