Marc Gander - The Consumer Survival Handbook


A 220 page introduction to all things consumer related by our own BankFodder.

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Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

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  1. #1
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    Default DQ for Money given as inheritance - now saying itís a loan, please help

    Hello,
    can anyone help me to fill in this directions questionnaire, it is a long story I have to tell.

    Myself and My Partner were living in a two bedroom bungalow that we purchased in 2006
    we have 3 children now and the bungalow was too small but we couldn’t afford to move,

    his parents (who at the time were giving £50k to my partners brother and sister) said they would pay for an extension to our bungalow to the same value (because they didn’t trust him with money)

    this was great
    my partners dad instructed a builder (sorry trying to make this as short as possible)
    who built the extension (started April 2016 finished July 2016)

    I had no say in who was contracted to build
    I did have a say in the kitchen as long as I kept it below a certain figure and the bathroom,
    the builder was a shoddy worker in my opinion,
    told us we had to move out for a couple of days while he knocked through

    meanwhile 3 months later and still living at my parents while the builder (a friend of my partners dad) a man in his very late 50s and one other person was coming to my house at 9 am and leaving at 2

    I left for work and to drop kids at school at 8:30 and came home around 2:30
    there was no chance to speak to the builder
    I even took a day off work just so I could catch him to talk to
    (he was working on the roof and left my house exposed and the rain had poured into my kitchen hallway loft which I still had all my property in which got ruined)

    when I finally got to talking to him to ask why he left the house exposed
    why we were supposed to be moved out only for a few days
    and why it had turned into months
    he simply replied I am not working for you.

    My partners dad was not much help either
    he only used to come to give the man his cheques
    to which I didn’t even know how much was being paid out,

    eventually his dad realised he was being taken for a ride
    had an argument with the builder
    the work was botch finished and that was that.

    My partner then asked me in around November 2016 could I sign this piece of paper as my dad has spent so much on the house ,
    it’s to do with tax ,
    he said,
    so I did.

    Around December 2016 I was aware my father in law was pursuing the builder for shoddy unfinished work through a solicitor
    (the building work cannot be signed off until further works are finished which the builder has just ignored requests to come back and do)

    March 2017 I left the home with my 3 children after suffering domestic abuse I moved in with my mum and dad,

    on the 31st March I received a solicitor letter from mum and dad in law saying I owe them £47k.
    Before extension my bungalow worth £130k

    Then on 14th April another letter showing a loan agreement I had supposed to have signed on the 2nd April 2016 and with a valuation of my Home (£145k) and offering to buy me out for £5000.

    I was flabbergasted
    I could not afford legal help
    I just didn’t reply,

    in August 2017 I received another letter informing me they intend to go to court to recoup this money
    (all the while their son is living in the house and has changed the locks)

    i received the court papers and filed a defence but I’m just stuck now,
    I have this questionnaire to fill in by 16th November ,

    I’m just annoyed that my house was worth £130k before works took place
    ive spent 11 years of my life paying my mortgageicon

    had the work not been done to sell it and split the interest
    I would have been looking at around £28k to walk away with,
    it’s had £47k spent on it and now it’s only worth £145k

    I know the money was really for him and they can have it back for him (which is why they are doing it)
    but the fact they controlled the whole thing
    (we have a builder living next door and the build should have only come to £35k had we had any say)

    it just annoys me they are calling it a loan when it wasn’t at all,
    surely if it was a loan discussion about repayment would have taken place, time scales etc
    the fact they only asked me for the repayment not both of us
    and the works have not been worth it
    and eaten into the interest already built up in the property.

    I am now in rented house with my children who’s father has not paid one penny towards since I left
    has not seen them since July

    I contacted child maintenance
    he has denied paternity of two of them
    (just to get out of paying, although he thought, he is obviously the father and the results have showed that so he is supposed to make payments now but hasn’t because he has put a change of circumstances in with the cms but he still has to pay
    (I am still waiting though, I won’t hold my breath)
    just trying to paint a picture of the people I’m dealing with)

    meanwhile I’m working two jobs just to try to provide my children with some sort of nicer life.
    the best thing about this is being free, now , we are all so much happier.

    To be fair they are going to get the attachment on the house which is what they are going to court for to ensure their sons interests because money talks
    I can’t afford a solicitor to help me

    I want to fight it all the way the best I can because it wasn’t a loan it was a gift.

    The “loan agreement” which I am supposed to have signed is an a4 piece of paper with this sentence on it

    “ we hereby loan the sum of £50k ( fifty thousand pounds) to (my partner name) and (my name) of (my address.)
    The loan is subject to an interest of 0% and is repayable on demand.
    Then my signature his signature and both parents signature

    I didn’t sign this
    I signed something in November 2016
    not on this dated 2nd April
    I was even at work that day.

    Has anyone got any advice what so ever?
    Please xx


  2. #2
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    Default Re: Directions questionnaire Money given as inheritance now saying itís a loan, please help

    I assume you have a directions questionnaire for which you must serve your witness statement by x date 14 days before the impending hearing?

    so what did you put in your defence please?

    did you request any documents out of the claimant by way of say CPR or in your defence?

    your last sentence seems the killer here...

    I didn’t sign this
    I signed something in November 2016
    not on this dated 2nd April
    I was even at work that day.


    prove that part and you should be home dry, its obviously a fraudulent document signed on a date you could not have

    moved to general legal forum

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  3. #3
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    Hello, thank you for your reply.

    My defence simply said,
    I did not sign this document ,
    I was at work that day,
    there was never any indication of a loan it was a gift.

    I did not request any documents,
    I didnít know I could,
    I have only just found this forum
    , I wish I had found it earlier,
    Iím sorry I donít know what CPR is.

    The other day I received a copy of their questionnaire through the post and in it there was a time line of events when things have to be in by and in brackets next to them should be dates but they are blank.

    In this questionnaire they have instructed a handwriting expert to verify my signature.

    How can I prove I was at work that day?
    Could I ask for my clock card.
    Do you think I could ask for more time also?
    Thank you

    Sorry I donít seem to have a date for the hearing but the directions questionnaire needs completing by 16 th November and it has things like witnesses on it, so would this be used in court?

    I was going to put myself down as a witness,
    as I said I have received a copy of thereís and my ex father in law is one and the builder is the other

    which I canít understand because before I left they were definitely pursuing him,
    I can only think they have said they will drop whatever they are pursuing him for if he will help them itís all very nasty and devious.

    I thought as well with them having regular access to a solicitor and having the available funds if it was a loan originally why not get the solicitor to draw something official up at the time as they thought nothing of sending (what felt at the time like bombarding me) with letters from the solicitor at what £150-£200 a letter.


  4. #4
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    Default Re: DQ for Money given as inheritance - now saying itís a loan, please help

    I am wondering how can they be chasing the daughter in law for the whole amount and nothing from the son?


  5. #5
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    Default Re: DQ for Money given as inheritance - now saying itís a loan, please help

    Originally the letters and demands were addressed only to me

    Since I mentioned this to them and since the court action it has been in both names

    It’s just a formality they are not pursuing their son really
    they are protecting his interests in the house and with the money that was really meant for him

    it has been spent on the house
    they are trying to get an attachment on the house for the “loan” amount.


  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by dx100uk View Post
    I assume you have a directions questionnaire for which you must serve your witness statement by x date 14 days before the impending hearing?

    so what did you put in your defence please?

    did you request any documents out of the claimant by way of say CPR or in your defence?

    your last sentence seems the killer here...

    I didnít sign this
    I signed something in November 2016
    not on this dated 2nd April
    I was even at work that day.


    prove that part and you should be home dry, its obviously a fraudulent document signed on a date you could not have

    moved to general legal forum
    This will be a Fast Track matter, not a small claimicon, so the Directions won't be the same.

    There will be Disclosure Lists, handwriting experts report (presumably) and PTC filed before a hearing date is listed.


  7. #7
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    Default Re: DQ for Money given as inheritance - now saying itís a loan, please help

    have you started divorceicon proceedings yet?
    If not kick off with that and ask for an order for the property to be made over to you until the children have finished their education.

    It will certainly take the sting out of this claim and it is likely to fail anyway as your estranged spouse is equally liable
    if you dont earn enough he will have to pay the lot back anyway.
    That makes the claim defective

    As you say, they are just trying to bully you.

    Find a lawyer who can work on a contingency fee basis
    and let the outlaws know you are doing this
    and costs are likely to run into thousands and they will have to pay them when they lose


  8. #8
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    Default Re: DQ for Money given as inheritance - now saying itís a loan, please help

    also, even if you did sign the document the claim would have to be against you and hubby jointly so if you have no means to pay he would be obliged to.
    That would take the wind out of their sails,
    dropping their son with a CCJ instead of you.


  9. #9
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    Default Re: DQ for Money given as inheritance - now saying itís a loan, please help

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganymede View Post
    This will be a Fast Track matter, not a small claimicon, so the Directions won't be the same.

    There will be Disclosure Lists, handwriting experts report (presumably) and PTC filed before a hearing date is listed.
    Surely Multi-track right, at £47k? Possibly cost budgeting and an allocation hearing in addition to all you've mentioned.

    OP - what does your Notice of Proposed Allocation say - is it Proposed allocation to the fast track or the Multi Track?

    Either way, you'll have to file at court and send to the other side from N181 and some draft directions (these sound like what you've received from the other side as the dates are blank).

    Did you also get a spreadsheet with "Precedent H" written at the top? It will have lots of money amounts in boxes with labels like "statements of case", "disclosure" etc with a grand total at the bottom...

    Also, and most importantly, what is the date this all has to be sent to Court?? EDIT - I see above it's in 2 days time - 16/11...


  10. #10
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    No not Multi Track and Costs Budgets don't apply to Litigants in Person.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: DQ for Money given as inheritance - now saying itís a loan, please help

    Why not MT if itís a money claim over £25k?

    And yes as LiP OP wonít have to file a prec h but solicitors are on the other side so they should have sent her one (if itís proposed allocation to the multi track).


  12. #12
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    Default Re: DQ for Money given as inheritance - now saying itís a loan, please help

    Hello thank you for the replyís, Iím sorry Iím not really understanding anything it is a fast track case which I have no idea what that means so do I have to give some draft directions like I have received from them? I have no idea where to start I have written a statement a to submit and that is it 🙁😩


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    Quote Originally Posted by Skinnyminniex View Post
    Hello thank you for the replyís, Iím sorry Iím not really understanding anything it is a fast track case which I have no idea what that means so do I have to give some draft directions like I have received from them? I have no idea where to start I have written a statement a to submit and that is it 🙁😩
    Ok please donít panic, you still have today and tomorrow to do this and it can be sent to court by email.

    Have you completed a directions questionnaire? Itís the same form that they sent you where they talked about a handwriting expert? Itís court form N181 and it can be downloaded from the ministry of justice website I believe.

    The draft directions are essentially a timetable for how the case will progress. Both sides submit their draft directions and if they arenít agreed, the court decide how best to set the timetable.

    A fast track case can be broken down into these steps:

    Disclosure - this is each side telling the other what documents they have relevant to the case.

    Witness statements - this is the primary evidence of each witness - from your perspective it is telling the story of what happened in a concise way, relevant to the issues in dispute and bolstering what you put in your defence.

    Experts reports - the opportunity for the parties to serve expert witness reports (eg the handwriting expert) and the other party can sometimes ask written questions of the expert.

    Schedules of loss - the claimant can file an updated list of the losses theyíre claiming and the defendant has a chance to file an opposing list.

    Pre trial checklists - another court form that allows the court to establish information to allow them to determine the date of the hearing and how long it should be (although sometimes the court will just set a date based on the info they have)

    The trial

    - so the idea of your draft directions is to try and establish dates and timescales for the above that you would be comfortable with.


  14. #14
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    Default Re: DQ for Money given as inheritance - now saying itís a loan, please help

    Thank you for that! The break down of steps is a huge help.

    I don’t have any witness statements because there isn’t any do I just put myself down?

    The same with expert reports the handwriting specialist they have should be suffice.

    They are claiming half of the expenses of the handwriting expert.

    Does the ex partner have to file something I don’t know where he stands in all this,

    what happens if he didn’t defend the claim?


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    Default Re: DQ for Money given as inheritance - now saying itís a loan, please help

    OK, you need to put yourself down - in order to give evidence in person that witness should submit a witness statement.

    You said you were at work when they allege that you signed the 'loan agreement' - would anyone from work be a witness to that fact?

    I'd be inclined to put your ex as a witness - primarily because of this - "My partner then asked me in around November 2016 could I sign this piece of paper as my dad has spent so much on the house.
    it’s to do with tax ,
    he said,
    so I did."

    Unlikely that he'll co-operate by submitting a witness statement however his name on there may cause some concern for the other side. Do you remember what was written on the paper you signed in November 2016?

    If any witness is not on the form it isn't fatal however it is best to detail on there anyone who may assist your case.

    Have you any issues with other parts of the N181 form?

    With regards to the draft directions, feel free to use theirs as a guide. Look for anything on there that jumps out as being incorrect, unrealistic or unfair, e.g. they might give themselves permission to rely on the handwriting expert, but not give you any opportunity to raise written questions to that expert OR they suggest a 3 day trial (which would be excessive).


  16. #16
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    Default Re: DQ for Money given as inheritance - now saying itís a loan, please help

    Thank you very much for your help,
    Do I have to submit a draft directions? Can I not just fill the directions questionnaire in ?
    When they say on their draft directions ď unless the parties agree in writing or the court orders otherwise , the fees and expenses of the expert shall be paid to her by the parties equally.Ē
    Does this mean i have to pay her because I simply canít afford it


  17. #17
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    Default Re: DQ for Money given as inheritance - now saying itís a loan, please help

    Yes you should complete the N181 and make sure its filed and served by the dates stated.

    Use the claimants as a guide to completion......except for witnesses ...you state yourself.

    Its not vital for the defendant to submit directions...if you agree with the claimants and do not wish to amend or add anything...then the court will use the claimants...assuming you are in agreement.

    Is the court claim in your name only ?


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  18. #18
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    Default Re: DQ for Money given as inheritance - now saying itís a loan, please help

    Thank you, I have just sent the completed n181 forms off ,

    I put myself as a witness and my ex partner,

    I didn’t submit any directions.

    The court claim is against me and my ex partner but I have no idea of his intentions,

    this is all for him anyway his parents are only doing this so he gets the lions share of the equity
    they ultimately want an attachment on the house which whenever it’s sold and has to be paid back they will just give straight to him because the money was never a loan it was a gift to him but like I say they didn’t trust him with money so paid for an extension on the house instead


  19. #19
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    Default Re: DQ for Money given as inheritance - now saying itís a loan, please help

    you keep saying attachment?
    you mean Charging Order

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  20. #20
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    Default Re: DQ for Money given as inheritance - now saying itís a loan, please help

    Is it not the same thing?
    Ultimately if they get an order when we sell they get their money?



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