Marc Gander - The Consumer Survival Handbook


A 220 page introduction to all things consumer related by our own BankFodder.

Includes energy companies, mobile phone providers, retailers, banks, insurance companies,debt collection agencies, reclaim companies, secondhand car sellers, cowboy garages, cowboy builders and all the rest who put their own profits before you.

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Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

£19.99 + £1.50 (P&P)


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  1. #1
    Basic Account Holder hardworkingsinglemummy Novitiate



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    Default Hours of employment HELP!! Employer forciing change to shifts

    Hello,
    Im looking for some advice/help,

    i currently work for [edited] on a 16 hour contract,
    i have worked for the company for 4 years.

    I am a single parent of 3 children and I also attend college 2 days a week,

    my problem is this,
    my manager has re-shifted everyones working patterns instore and has moved my shifts on to days and hours she knows i cant do due to me attending college and childcare issues, having to collect children from school etc.

    she knows my situation and knows that the hours and days i currently work are the only shifts i can do,
    by doing this she is forcing me out of the company as she has told me if i dont accept the new hours my contract will be terminated,

    we have alot of teenagers working in our store and she hasnt changed their shifts to days they are at college/uni she has worked around that!

    i have spoken to acas they have told me that she can do this and if it does come to terminating my contract then i can take her to tribunal
    however i may not win,

    is there anything i can do ?
    Surely companies are meant to encourage and support working mums not put them in a position where they could become unemployed through no fault of their own ??

    Any help or advice would be very much appreciated,

    thankyou

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  2. #2
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    Default Hours of employment HELP!! Employer forciing change to shifts

    I have removed the name of your employer for now

    Have you ever submitted a flexible working request - or do you plan to?

    Yes the employer can change shift patters. Is it fair or right that they do so? No, but providing that they do so in a particular way (and it sounds from the way that you word your OP that they are doing this) then your options are limited when it comes to Tribunal action

    I strongly suggest that you go down the route of a FWR - that is a legal process which obligates the employer to consider the request and they are bound to provide genuine reasons why it cannot be accepted - if they do reject the request. You can then appeal

    Guidance here https://www.gov.uk/flexible-working

    Any advice given is done so on the assumption that recipients will also take professional advice where appropriate.

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  3. #3
    Basic Account Holder hardworkingsinglemummy Novitiate



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    Default Re: Hours of employment HELP!! Employer forciing change to shifts

    Thankyou for taking the time to read and reply to my post,I will look into your suggestion


  4. #4
    Basic Account Holder hardworkingsinglemummy Novitiate



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    Default Re: Hours of employment HELP!! Employer forciing change to shifts

    Ive read through the link you’ve posted and my manager has already stated that this change is for the needs of the business amd to meet customer demand, is it still worth going ahead and putting in this request ? Also if i give her some sort of offer as to what i could do to try and meet the needs without my weekday shifts changing (offering to work 2 saturdays in a month as she has stated she needs more saturday staff) would she still be able to refuse and would I have more grounds if it went to tribunal?


  5. #5
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    Default

    I am afraid that this is a difficult one. Yes, you should make the request anyway - if you don't, then you do the shifts or not. You'd have no argument at all. But of course she can refuse, and we can't predict if this would help a tribunal case or not- because we don't have access to the employers side of the argument. But it can't harm yours, and that is the point.

    Having said that, in the end, your child care responsibilities MIGHT be an argument. Your college course isn't. In the end, your employer employs you to work, not for your personal life and choices. That isn't said to be harsh - it is just reality. They don't care about your children, your college, your life... They care only about what suits their business.


  6. #6
    Basic Account Holder hardworkingsinglemummy Novitiate



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    Default Re: Hours of employment HELP!! Employer forciing change to shifts

    Yes I understand that, thankyou for your help, I will put the request in writing and hope for the best, I will post an outcome as soon as I have one, thanks again.


  7. #7
    Basic Account Holder Sangie595 Highly informative Sangie595 Highly informative Sangie595 Highly informative Sangie595 Highly informative Sangie595 Highly informative Sangie595 Highly informative



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    Default Re: Hours of employment HELP!! Employer forciing change to shifts

    Yeah - do it, get an answer and come back with that answer if it doesn't solve the problem. It may be that there is nothing to be done. There isn't always. But the more information you can give us, the better it is for us to advise on.


  8. #8
    Basic Account Holder hardworkingsinglemummy Novitiate



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    Default Re: Hours of employment HELP!! Employer forciing change to shifts

    I will do, thankyou, your help is very much appreciated


  9. #9
    Basic Account Holder spitfire1964 Novitiate



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    Default Re: Hours of employment HELP!! Employer forciing change to shifts

    Quote Originally Posted by hardworkingsinglemummy View Post
    Hello,
    Im looking for some advice/help,

    i currently work for [edited] on a 16 hour contract,
    i have worked for the company for 4 years.

    I am a single parent of 3 children and I also attend college 2 days a week,

    my problem is this,
    my manager has re-shifted everyones working patterns instore and has moved my shifts on to days and hours she knows i cant do due to me attending college and childcare issues, having to collect children from school etc.

    she knows my situation and knows that the hours and days i currently work are the only shifts i can do,
    by doing this she is forcing me out of the company as she has told me if i dont accept the new hours my contract will be terminated,

    we have alot of teenagers working in our store and she hasnt changed their shifts to days they are at college/uni she has worked around that!

    i have spoken to acas they have told me that she can do this and if it does come to terminating my contract then i can take her to tribunal
    however i may not win,

    is there anything i can do ?
    Surely companies are meant to encourage and support working mums not put them in a position where they could become unemployed through no fault of their own ??

    Any help or advice would be very much appreciated,

    thankyou
    You need to get in writing that if you do not agree to the terms your contract will be terminated.

    If others are not being affected by change and it is evident that you are being treated different as in the case the young employees not being affected by change as opposed to you, you are being discriminated against.

    Forget ACAS, however before you can take your case to a Tribunal they have to try and mediate its just a protocol that needs to be followed before you can proceed.

    Do not accept anything that has been said, ask for the Company to put in writing what they are advocating.

    The important fact at this stage is your employment rights that you were giving the day after the point you were employed for two years.

    You have rights as do your employers but don't bow to them ask them to put it in writing give them a period of 14 days and state that if they do not put in writing or document their intentions the verbal threat that they have giving you should be retracted.

    Tell them and ACAS that you will reserve your right for a Employment Tribunal to adjudge the matter and on the grounds of age discrimination.


  10. #10
    Basic Account Holder hardworkingsinglemummy Novitiate



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    Default Re: Hours of employment HELP!! Employer forciing change to shifts

    Thankyou for your reply, do I still go ahead and request FWH as it seems from your post Its a different route to go down


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Hours of employment HELP!! Employer forciing change to shifts

    I would wait for other views on spitfire's post, hardworking. Sangie and others are the ones with employment/union experience rather than me, but I think SF's approach could be a way to inflame things.

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  12. #12
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    Default Re: Hours of employment HELP!! Employer forciing change to shifts

    1. as Sangie says, request flexible working for childcare. the key thing most people dont do, and why it gets turned down, is to show how the company can accomodate your reqest - so you need to describe others' traditional shft patterns and how they can work with you

    The company will need to accept, or decline in writing giving their reasons - valuable evidence should yu need it later

    2. if college is work related the time off for training leglisation may kick in - is it?

    Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!
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  13. #13
    Basic Account Holder Sangie595 Highly informative Sangie595 Highly informative Sangie595 Highly informative Sangie595 Highly informative Sangie595 Highly informative Sangie595 Highly informative



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    Default Re: Hours of employment HELP!! Employer forciing change to shifts

    I cannot but imagine that following the adversarial option proposed by spitfire will do anything to preserve your employment; and I am afraid that the confident, but entirely unevidenced assumption of age discrimination (or any other form of discrimination) is entirely incorrect.
    There is simply no way, based on the information posted here, that it can be determined that there is any form of discrimination going on.

    As Emmzzi points out, there are many quite legal reasons for treating younger workers differently, just as there are reasons for treating other groups of workers differently. Young workers have different levitation about their working hours, may be apprentices with arranged training as party of their contract, etc. And telling your employer in writing that they have a deadline or they had better withdraw a "threat" is the fastest way I know to get them to dig in their heels and tell you that your shifts will be changed and that's how it is.

    It is significantly easier than most people recognise to change contractual conditions, even assuming the hours of work are, in fact, contractual. And there are good reasons for employers to refuse request for flexible working arrangements or other hours of work. Whether this employer is able to muster those arguments is something neither we, not the OP, knows. But it isn't hard to do. In the end, employers hold a powerful hand, and there is no right to employment - business needs trump almost everything. That is just how it ism


  14. #14
    Basic Account Holder hardworkingsinglemummy Novitiate



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    Default Re: Hours of employment HELP!! Employer forciing change to shifts

    Thankyou all for taking the time to advise me on this, no college isnt work related, it is my choice to train in another field, I will put in a request for FWH, I do feel it will be refused as she has stated that this change is to meet the needs of the business and customer demand, It wont hurt to try tho, I really appreciate all of your advice and I will keep you updated on progress and outcome, thankyou


  15. #15
    Basic Account Holder sgtbush Novitiate



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    Default Re: Hours of employment HELP!! Employer forciing change to shifts

    Follow sangies advice AND NO ONE ELSES.

    The "other" advice is passive aggressive and will get you nowhere with your employer


  16. #16
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    Default Re: Hours of employment HELP!! Employer forciing change to shifts

    Quote Originally Posted by sgtbush View Post
    Follow sangies advice AND NO ONE ELSES.

    The "other" advice is passive aggressive and will get you nowhere with your employer

    OY!

    Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!
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  17. #17
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    Default Re: Hours of employment HELP!! Employer forciing change to shifts

    I'm sure it was an oversight by sgtbish, Emmzzi. We know you're good.

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  18. #18
    Basic Account Holder sgtbush Novitiate



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    Default Re: Hours of employment HELP!! Employer forciing change to shifts

    The point I was making was follow sangies advice.
    Emmzzi, I was underlining your first line in your post in 7.48am.

    SP has a track record in many many posts of being passive aggressive and advising gong in all guns a blazing if spitting your dummy out does not work.
    Sorry I I've been misunderstood, I hope that clears it up


  19. #19
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    Default Re: Hours of employment HELP!! Employer forciing change to shifts

    This thread is starting to stray off topic. Can we get back to advising the OP please and wait for her to let us know how it goes.

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  20. #20
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    Default Re: Hours of employment HELP!! Employer forciing change to shifts

    what part of post 26 did you not read..

    those and numerous unhelpful posts removed

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