Hi,

Just looking for some advice on emails and letters ive received from Jacobs.

Long story short:

I was a student in Liverpool until May 16 and moved out of the flat I had in July 16.

I obviously wasnt paying council tax at the time as I was a student.

From this I have been paying council tax since that date to Cheshire West and Chester where I now live.

in September of this year I received a notice out of the blue from Jacobs saying I owed over £1000.

I contacted LCC and was informed they were trying to charge me from March (I was still a student) until November 16 (I moved out in July).

I told them the details and they re-issued the bill at the end of september and I paid it (circa £240 was due) directly to LCC.

Now I have Jacobs contacting me saying I owe them fee's and interest charges for a bill that

1) Ive paid,

2) I knew nothing about until September of this year.

I have sent a couple emails to Jacobs explaining this and getting nowhere and now they are threatening further action.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks

Patrick

Ps below is the latest email correspondence I have received:

'We acknowledge receipt of your recent correspondence and have noted the content therein.

We write to advise that our accounts have now been updated to reflect the payment made to Liverpool City Council however there are fees of £310.00 outstanding.

Under the Taking Control of Goods Regulations 2014, the sum outstanding that needs to be paid to stop further action

"means the outstanding debt together with any interest and any costs of enforcement to date".

A balance therefore remains on your account, as fees had been incurred before you made your payment to the Council.

Under the Regulations you must now also pay our costs of enforcement to finalise the matter.

We therefore ask that you pay the remaining balance in full within 7 days of the date on this letter.

Failure to adhere to the above may result in further recovery action being taken'

why did you pay if you were not liable and 'a student?'

why didn't the council cancel the original Liability order as it was wrong?

I suggest you go ring LCC and tell them whats gone on..

someone is trying to spoof you here me thinks??

dx

Some money was due between my course finishing and moving out (about a month and half). However the first bill I received in September of this year was for over £1000. I got in touch with Liverpool CC and sorted it and paid the £225 due.

Not sure what else I could have done.

well they obviously had already gotten a court [liability order ] on you.

then as they couldn't find you??

passed it on to bailiffs with the resulting fees

1st letter will be notice of enforcement costing £75 giving 7 days to pay the sum + the Fee

if not they then make a home visit [sometimes only to post a hand delivered letter costing another £235

but ad the LO was faulty [wrong value]

it should have been cancelled

thus the bailiffs should have been cancelled and all fees withdrawn.

hopefully ive got that right

Some money was due between my course finishing and moving out (about a month and half). However the first bill I received in September of this year was for over £1000. I got in touch with Liverpool CC and sorted it and paid the £225 due.

 

Not sure what else I could have done.

I can see what has happened here (which is that you received correspondence from Jacobs Ltd to request approx £1,000 and you then contacted the council to provide evidence to support the fact that you had been a student for a large portion of the period and accordingly, the local authority (Cheshire West and Chester) amended the Liability Order to a significantly lower figure of £225).

For reasons that are unclear ( which hopefully you will outline) you then paid the council direct (minus bailiff fees) instead of paying Jacobs Ltd.

Looks like LCC obtained a Liability Order in that interim, and sent the account to Snacobs who have added the Compliance and Enforcement fees. Contact LCC and ask whay bailiffs are involved. Hide any car as well Jacobs are noted for taking and clamping cars, any car will do for them even next doors.

Some money was due between my course finishing and moving out (about a month and half). However the first bill I received in September of this year was for over £1000. I got in touch with Liverpool CC and sorted it and paid the £225 due.

 

Not sure what else I could have done.

You mention that the 'first bill' that you received was in September (requesting over £1,000) and that you then contacted the council. I am assuming that this 'bill' was the notice from Jacobs and was not a 'bill' from Liverpool CC?

You then received a 're-issued' bill at the end of September for £240 and paid the sum to the council. I cannot see from your post any indication that Jacobs returned the account back to the council. If they had of done, then all bailiff fees would have been removed.

As Jacobs Ltd were still enforcing the Liability Order, the council should have passed your payment over to Jacobs Ltd so that they could deduct the Compliance fee of £75.

The following fairly recent decision from the Local Government Ombudsman may assist with understanding the position with paying the council direct:

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?481853-LGO-decision.....Debtor-paid-council-direct-(minus-fees)....council-failed-to-tell-enforcement-co.....bailiff-fees-due.

I received a letter from Jacobs stating that £1000 was due.

I contacted Liverpool City Council and they sent me a bill for £950.

That bill was then contested and amended once I told them I was a student and had moved out well before the Nov bill. (this was all in Sep of this year).

As soon as the amended bill was sent by LCC I paid it direct as that who I thought would be the best people to pay.

What you recommend I do at this stage?

Also just to add.

I couldnt have paid the bill stated as due until it was corrected.

A correct bill was not issued by LCC (taking into account I was a student and had moved out of the property far earlier than the bill was for) until the end of September (after I had discussed the situation with LCC) at which point the bill was paid direct to LCC.

Are Jacobs suggesting that in order to avoid these additional fee's I should have paid an incorrect bill that was over 4X what the eventual bill was settled at?

This doesn't seem reasonable.

It would appear that LCC obtained a Liability Order for the original alleged amount then sent it to Jacobs and didn't appraise Jacobs of the debt now being lower than the Liability Order, and also didn't recall the debt leaving Jacobs to demand their legitimate fees. LCC need to sort it Jacobs are tenacious and will not go away unless LCC deal with them, the council messed up probably by not recalling the LO and the original debt from Jacobs.

Ok thanks for that, I have issued a formal complaint with the council and sent them an email detailing my complaint.

Should I let Jacobs know I have done this?

Is there anything else you'd recommend at this stage?

I would back up the email Complaint with a Hard Copy letter to Finance Director and CEO, copy in the elected leader also.

get a free proof of posting for the letters at the Post Office.

You could send it to Jacobs, but if the council has messed up they are also a victim they would be expecting their lawful fees.

Until the council deal with them they will continue to demand their fees and might even try to take your goods into control, they have an active Liability Order albeit for an incorrect sum and now apparently their fees only and will continue Enforcement until it is withdrawn or paid .

Others will be along with more and possibly better advice soon.

It would appear that LCC obtained a Liability Order for the original alleged amount then sent it to Jacobs and didn't appraise Jacobs of the debt now being lower than the Liability Order, and also didn't recall the debt leaving Jacobs to demand their legitimate fees. LCC need to sort it Jacobs are tenacious and will not go away unless LCC deal with them, the council messed up probably by not recalling the LO and the original debt from Jacobs.

Yes I agree. Jacobs did act correctly according to the information they had. Strictly speaking once a liability order is granted then that is the figure that is owed and cannot be altered without judicial intervention, but in your case I am sure common sense will prevail.

The problem here IMO is that so many EAs receive frivolous claims that fees are not due, they sometime disregard genuine cases like yours

Ok thanks for that, I have issued a formal complaint with the council and sent them an email detailing my complaint.

 

Should I let Jacobs know I have done this?

 

Is there anything else you'd recommend at this stage?

Without knowing more, I do not know what your complaint is about. From what I have read, you received a letter from Jacobs requesting approx £1,000 and you then contacted the council to provide evidence that you had been a student for a large part of the period. The council then amended your Liability Order and you paid the council direct (minis bailiff fees).

In the first instance, the obligation to apply for 'student' exemption would have been on you and the council therefore cannot be at fault.

What would be of interest would be to know what was stated in the response from the council (when they amended the figure to £240). Did the council inform you to contact Jacobs to make payment? Did the council provide their bank details for you to make payment to them direct?

What cannot be argued I believe is that you owe the Compliance fee of £75 which would have been outlined in the initial letter from Jacobs Ltd (called the Notice of Enforcement).

If common sense had of been applied, my personal opinion, is that when the council amended the Liability Order, a new Notice of Enforcement should have been provided to you.

Didn't the OP say that they received a revised bill, rather than an order.

It seems to me that the problem was the bailiff was still working under the incorrect LO, because there had been no steps made to stop enforcement for the wrong amount.

I do not think that a council can just alter the sum due on a liability order, as it is an order of the court. What they would have to do is withdraw it, and in my view they should, if it can be shown it was the authorities error.

Happy to be corrected.

That was how I saw it DB, council must sort it, and probably as per BA the Compliance fee may stillbe payable. Common Sense and Councils often don't go well together.

Hi guys

When I was discussing the bill with the council they told me to use their payment line. So I did.

I suppose my own opinion is that there is nothing I could have done to stop Jacobs contacting me. As soon as I knew about the debt I action'd it.

Are you suggesting that I should pay them?

Im just a bit worried about them coming round my house.

The length of time it takes the council to respond to anything doesn't help with Jacobs previous correspondence from Jacobs giving me a 7 day deadline and the possibilty of more fees being added or them coming round my house.

That was how I saw it DB, council must sort it, and probably as per BA the Compliance fee may stillbe payable. Common Sense and Councils often don't go well together.

Yes and legally of course BA is right, but you would think, given the circumstances.

Ok just so im on the right page.

As The bill was issued incorrectly and a new one issued for almost a quarter of the original amount the council should have amended the Liability Order and a new Notice of Enforcement should have been provided.

The fees over the £75 I could not have avoided as the timescale Jacobs gave me to pay the original incorrect bill was not long enough for the council to amend and re-issue to me so I could make the payment.

Unless it was expected that I pay an incorrect bill over 4X what was actually due.

Like I've said, as soon as I received the amended correct bill it was paid in good time.

Therefore the initial LO should have been rescinded.

Therefore I should not need to pay the £235 but may be liable for the original £75?

That looks like what is the situation.

However it should never have got to this stage.

Agreed. But such is life. I've contacted both the council and Jacobs explaining that.

Ill let you know how I get on. Thanks for the advice as always.

This to me is one of the great injustices with the system. Even though you may have a Liability Order for £1000 and you know it is incorrect then unfortunately that is the sum the Bailiffs will chase you for - it is not for them to correct it. Simply put you are supposed to pay that original sum and when it is later altered to the correct total you then have to apply for the balance to be paid back to you - otherwise it is held as a credit against any future sum.

Absolutely PT, the system stinks Jacobs will probably persue for the full £310 in fees unless LCC does something.

It is abhorrent that people who may not be able to afford the sum demanded have the debt increased by bailiff fees that often render the debt unpayable by the debtor on the terms demanded by the bailiff as in pay bailiff and miss rent, and don't eat.

Hi all, just to let you know that I contacted my local councillor and he was very helpful is sorting it out. I didn't have to pay anything in the end.

As always thanks for your help. Ill be sure to make a donation to the site.

This should be pinned as a sticky !

thread title amended well done

thanks for the donation