Before I go into the whole long story (and it is long!), does anyone have any experience with defending defamation claims?

My wife is being sued by our neighbour for defamation, following a statement she made on Facebook. The statement was made in anger following several years of what can only be described as torture from these people.

The complainant's partner has been the main instigator of the trouble we've had and she has been prosecuted and convicted twice, her daughter once, for their behaviour against us. The complainant mostly stays quiet, but it was he who committed the act which prompted the Facebook post.

They have made several attempts previously to accuse us via solicitors, police of things which we haven't done, which we have proved, so my feeling is that this claim is just vexatious; an attempt to "get us back".

My wife's post was shared by the complainant's partner and the abuse that my wife received following that was horrific, to a point where I asked her to take down the post, which she did. So I think it's safe to say that it hasn't damaged his reputation one single bit. The meaning of the post has been twisted in the particulars of claim.

Happy to go into further detail if someone thinks they can help, or give an opinion. The defence is due to be submitted by this Friday, 27th, but I'm not bad at putting things down on paper. I suppose I need someone's opinion on whether he has a chance. My wife has no assets and no income; the house was mine when we met and we have 3 small children together, so not sure how they expect to collect the aggravated damages should they win.

Thanks in advance.

I don't think we really have any experience in defending defamation cases here. Frankly things never normally get that far.

From what you say, a claim has already been filed and this means that you will have to file a defence.

You better start having a look on the Internet about defamation but you will find that the main element was that the defamatory statement was untrue. If you can show that it was true or substantially true – and also not motivated by malice then you have a good chance of success.

If you made a statement about the complainant but it was her husband who was responsible for the behaviour alluded to in the statement then it could be that the statement about the complainant is untrue.

I suppose we need to know more about it.

If your wife posted a statement about the complainant and it was picked up and reposted by the complainant's husband then his republication of the statement is itself capable of being defamatory and he will have contributed to the damage.

If you can show that the bulk of the damage was caused by his reposting then that will help you enormously because even if the statement is found to be defamatory, they will have to establish that it caused damage to her reputation and not only that that the damage caused some loss.

I think all the evidence that you are referring to in relation to their prosecutions and convictions for behaviour against you will certainly help to show the judge that the behaviour you are complaining about is possibly true – but I think you need to let us know a lot more about it.

No knowledge of this area of law or experience in dealing with such issues.

I did not think you could bring defamation claims via the MCOL process, as that is supposed to be for disputes over money e.g a debt, consumer issue. The reason is that the defamation damage amount cannot be quantified within such a process.

Can you type up the particulars of claim that you have received into your next post.

Did you acknowledge receiving the court saying you would defend in full ?

I think you should start off by posting up the claim form in PDF format please

No knowledge of this area of law or experience in dealing with such issues.

 

I did not think you could bring defamation claims via the MCOL process, as that is supposed to be for disputes over money e.g a debt, consumer issue. The reason is that the defamation damage amount cannot be quantified within such a process.

 

Can you type up the particulars of claim that you have received into your next post.

 

Did you acknowledge receiving the court saying you would defend in full ?

the County Court does have jurisdiction to hear defamation claims – but it would be quite rare.

the County Court does have jurisdiction to hear defamation claims – but it would be quite rare.

You would be more aware than i. I suppose it would not get very far, as once it is defended, the allocation process would ensure it was quite expensive for the claimant. There must be different CPR rules that apply to defamation cases.

… Only marginally more aware .

I'm quite sure you are right that it would be allocated at least to the fast track and so there is a big risk of costs for the claimant if they lose. However, they might be being assisted, they might have previous experience, or they might simply have an appetite for risk and they are confident about their position.

We really do need to know more.

Thanks BF for your swift response. I have done lots of reading about defamation, and am also aware that the behaviour of the complainant's partner is largely, if not totally irrelevant in this particular case. The complainant has not previously caused any major trouble. As I mentioned earlier, his partner has been a complete nightmare and is the one who has the convictions (public order offence and criminal damage to our property).

During the summer we spent a lot of evenings out in the garden in swimwear in our inflatable pool, with the children. We have a 5 year old who is autistic and strips off at the first opportunity, and 3 year old twins who also aren't too keen on clothes, especially in the pool in the warm weather. We had seen the complainant a number of times watching us. His partner had posted unpleasant things on Facebook about there being a "beached whale in next door's paddling pool" referring to my wife, who is a larger lady, among other unpleasant things. My view has always been to ignore such nonsense.

A couple of years ago they were asked by the police, following a complaint from us, to remove a camera from their back bedroom window which appeared to be trained on our back garden. When I've been walking the twins home from nursery, I've seen his partner standing at the front window, arms folded, watching me. They erected a large wooden fence between our back doors which initially had all the boards evenly spaced; those boards have now been repositioned to leave a large gap giving them a view straight into our kitchen if the back door is open. We have seen the complainant peering through the gap as he's made his way into their back yard. We have also seen the complainant standing on a bench looking over his wall at the other side, watching another scantily-clad neighbour as she dozed on her garden furniture. It just makes us a bit uncomfortable.

On the evening which prompted the Facebook post, we had been playing in the pool with the children and saw movement in their bedroom window so my wife glanced up. She nudged me to look and we saw the complainant crouched down (presumably to hide from view) apparently watching us. Bear in mind the children were running about starkers, enough was enough. We came inside. My partner made a rather angry statement on Facebook (I will have to post exact wording later) naming him, with a picture, saying something along the lines of being fed up of being watched by him and that we've had to bring the children inside again. No mention was made or implied that he had an "inappropriate" interest in our children, or any other children, or that he was a danger to children, yet his POC state that that's what was implied. It really goes on to embellish the hurt caused, as you would expect.

His partner shared the post, and unleashed a torrent of horrific abuse at my wife from what felt like the entire village. This led to vicious personal slurs against us, against our children and so on, people saying really nasty things about us which had nothing to do with the actual post. I had enough and asked my wife to remove it. She received private messages from supporters of the complainant making threats and calling her horrible things. The complainant's partner also sent a private message to one of my wife's Facebook contacts who had commented on the original post threatening her and saying that she has photographs showing we live like tramps. (Is that not in itself defamatory? And why has she got pictures of us?) His partner went on to post pictures of our family that she took from other people's Facebook accounts naming us and generally being nasty.

So, to summarise, we did bring the children in because we saw him watching us through the window. We didn't suggest he was a danger to children. There were lots of other parts of the POC which are untrue; for example they state that my wife "tagged" a number of local residents in the original post. That's not true and my wife is able to prove that. They stated that Facebook removed the post following complaints from his supporters. That's also not true, as my wife still has access to the post which she just made private (so only she can see it, but she still has all the comments.)

Anyway, we have been stared at and whispered about in the school playground. We are both afraid to walk out of the front door in case they're there.

What else do you need? I do understand the law around defamation, including the updated Act, but just wondered what kind of proof my wife can provide to show that we did bring the children in because he was watching. We didn't take a picture of him! But we do have other complementary evidence which tips the balance of probability, possibly. Any thoughts?

Thanks

Just to add, I think we have a much stronger defamation case against his partner than he does against my wife, but we just want to be left alone.

Just seen the other posts, sorry...

I will post up the redacted POC when I get home from work this evening, along with the offending post. The claim has been issued by the Queens Bench, High Court, which I believe is normal for defamation. She e-mailed AOS within the 14 days from service, and the 28 days (14+14) to file the defence is up this Friday. He is claiming £10k damages/aggravated damages. If it didn't need to be defended it would be laughable. I don't believe it's possible to sue for defamation on a no-win-no-fee basis, nor through house insurance, so goodness knows what they're even thinking! They will have had to shell out hard cash to get it this far.

High court is normal for defamation – but not essential. I think you would have a good argument for getting it transfer down the County Court and that would reduce the possibility of costs. If that the reduction of cost would be one of the reasons for requesting the transfer. How much are they claiming?

I'm getting rather confused about this couple. Is this a male couple? This seems to be a lot of his – and his – but no her. I'm only asking this because I don't understand who the parties are in the roles of the respective parties.

It seems to me that you have had a very unpleasant time at their hands. Have you taken screenshots of all posts, messages – et cetera? Anything at all on the Internet? Have you taken photographs of the fencing before and after? Have you got any other evidence such as photographs or statements? Have you got any official details of the prosecutions, convictions – police reports et cetera?

It's a male/female couple. The claimant is a man and his partner is a woman. My wife and I are both women.

He is claiming £10k damages/aggravated damages.

We do have a letter about the original prosecution of the woman, and the result - she pleaded guilty. We have video evidence of them carrying out the criminal damage. We have photos of the fence before and after. We have photos showing the camera positioned in their window which the police asked them to remove. The whole saga has gone on for over four years.

We have screenshots of it all, including the comments made by their friends, which shows that his reputation is fully intact. My wife's on the other hand, is in tatters, as is mine.

There will be police records of the other stuff. There is CCTV footage which we have provided to the police on USB which was never returned, showing the complainant standing on a bench peering over at his other next door neighbour. Note that our CCTV camera covers part of the rear of their property in its periphery which is absolutely above board - we have checked!

Here's a tip – never allow original evidence of anything to go out of your possession. Always hand out copies. If the police really insist on having the original then take a copy first. But you know that now don't you.

I should contact the police in all urgency and obtain copies of everything they have. You may need to do this as a subject access request or a Freedom of information request – send both off to them now and also if you go along with the police then go and have a friendly word with them about it and say that it is urgent that you get everything.

Assemble all the evidence you have and make sure that it is properly organised.

The evidence that you do have doesn't directly impact on the allegation of defamation – but on the other hand it will be useful to support full story of what you have been through and your suggestion that in fact this latest act by your neighbours is merely the next step in a campaign against you.

Have you ever received any homophobic remarks from them or from any of their friends?

I think we do need to see a copy of the POC. Is there any justification for the damages?

Make sure that all the screenshots you have are organised so they tell a story and not simply a random collection of photographs.

Finally, I'm sorry to seem a little bit obtuse but are still struggling with who is who.

I don't understand if the complainant is the man who apparently has caused very few problems in the past because it is the woman who has been prosecuted and convicted at least twice. You made the statement against her. The man – usually quiet – reposted your Facebook post and unleashed the trouble. Because of this, the woman – the person who has been prosecuted and convicted is now suing you for defamation. Is this right?

I'm sure I have a copy of the CCTV footage somewhere on a laptop, just trying to find it!

The man is the complainant. He has caused very few problems in the past, but it was he who we saw watching from the window and about whom my wife posted. Unfortunately in anger she included his name and a picture. It is the complainant on the CCTV footage watching another neighbour over the wall. I believe my wife snapped a picture of him watching through the fence as he came out to his garden, though he could argue that his eyes were just pointing that way (!) If the gap hadn't been enlarged, he wouldn't have had such a clear view!

The woman, his partner, is the one who has caused the majority of the trouble. Her original conviction included a homophobic element so was considered a hate crime. Their friends, when commenting on anything that she has posted about us, make regular, vile homophobic comments about us.

The post which has given cause to the claim was the first thing in all of that time that my wife had posted about either of them, and it was a truthful statement, made in anger, with none of the intent or innuendo implied in the POC. I have never posted anything about them, naming them, and my Facebook profile is about as private as I can make it. The woman (complainant's partner) has posted lots of horrible things about both of us, naming us, with pictures, inciting what feels like an entire village on the attack. We have screenshots of all of it that we've seen.

ETA for clarity - My wife's FB statement was made about the man, the complainant, as he was the one watching from the window, yet he is the one who has not really caused any major trouble, just made us uncomfortable.

Well if you don't mind me saying so, it's all a bit too serious simply to be "sure" that there is footage "somewhere" on a laptop. All of this should be sorted out, found, isolated, backed up, and ordered.

Presumably your wife still has this picture? Presumably he has referred to the picture in his POC?

We still need to see the wording of the POC but it sounds to me that you have evidence to show that what you are saying is true or substantially true.

Have you got pictures of the fence? I asked this before? Have you taken measurements of the gaps between the fence slats? Do you have to have any photographic evidence of the fence before the gaps were introduced into the fence?

We do have pictures of the fence, both before and after, and will measure the gaps later.

I am in the process of getting together all of the evidence, and am working through writing the initial defence. Once that's in, I know that he will then have to make a decision on whether to proceed. The objective at this stage is to show that the evidence we have has merit to support a truth defence in the hope that he will drop the action. The campaign of terror evidence I suppose is supplementary?

Well before you finalise a defence, let us see the POC.

It seems to me that you have evidence for saying that if it is not wholly true then it is substantially true.

I would set about sending all your evidence now – especially retrieving any video footage that you might have anywhere. Take copies of everything – meaning copies should be on independent USB sticks and in the cloud – and not on the computer. All you need now is for your laptop to go down and you have a real problem.

I should stop referring to this is a campaign of terror. That has an entirely different connotation nowadays. I should refer to it as a campaign of harassment, which is what it appears to be. You haven't told us anything about the prosecutions. Has there ever been any allegations or findings of harassment against these people.

When you measure the fence, I suggest that not only do take measurements but also you take photographs with a ruler across the fence so that it is clear that the measurements which you are referring to are correct.

If you have to go to court then at some point it might be worth considering constructing a model of the fence say, about five slats across showing four gaps and maybe three or 4 foot high. The judge will probably give you permission to show it in evidence to demonstrate the extent of the problem. Evidence works much better that way.

It's one of those things that we never thought we'd need any of that footage to defend anything; it was given to the police to show what we were going through with regards to harassment. I do have most things in the cloud now (all the other evidence for example) but just need to track down that footage.

There have been allegations of harassment but with police resources being what they are we have had difficulty getting any action taken unless a more serious act has taken place. The cumulative effect doesn't seem worth the police's time! The original public order offence took place summer 2013. At the time we had one toddler, the weather was lovely, so my wife was spending time in the garden with him while I was at work. Next door neighbour (woman) was smoking cannabis in her garden and the smell was unpleasant, so my wife asked her politely if she would mind not smoking it out there while our child was playing. She received a grunt in response.

Later that evening, my older daughter (then 15) was sat in the garden with me, and complained that the smell was making her sick, so we went inside. I'd had enough of the smell - it's always been an issue for us - so called the police to report it. The police attended, and we heard no more from them on what happened with that report.

Shortly after the police visit, the woman came out to the fence and was ranting and raving, swearing, etc. We didn't respond. It carried on late into the night, with the abuse becoming more vile. My wife placed her phone near the back door to record it. We called the police back. The abuse carried on in the following days, loud music playing, songs like Chubby Brown's "You Fat Barsteward". Shouting things about our son and that he needed a father (he was conceived in our marriage, as were the twins, using a donor, not that that's anyone's business) and that they should start a campaign to get him taken away from us, etc.

Anyway, the outcome of that, with the recorded audio evidence, was that the woman pleaded guilty and was ordered to pay costs and compensation. Section 5 public order offence I think it was.

There have been lots of smaller things over the years. The police attended our home because they'd accused us of hanging a windchime (yes, really), their complaint being that the bracket had been drilled into their property. The bracket in question was attached when I bought the house, so all I'd done was stick a windchime on it. When the police didn't take them seriously, they had a solicitor send us a letter saying that unless we removed said bracket and made good the damage (which we didn't do) then they would remove it themselves. The windchime is a sensory thing for our autistic son. Cue criminal damage fixed penalty when they removed part of the fence to rip out the bracket, smash the windchime, and rip up a self-supported climbing plant from our property, causing massive distress to my wife and our son. She has all of that on video.

They have complained to the council about loud music, with times and dates. On at least one of those dates/times I was working from home and attending a videoconference from my living room on the laptop, with proof, so another ridiculous, vexatious allegation. It seems that they have been looking all this time for something, anything that they can get us on.

They have accused me of scratching their cars, and she has recently posted a blurry CCTV image of what may or may not be me, walking past the car. In her post she named me, referred to me as wife of the incredible hulk, saying that now they have me on CCTV scratching the car. Absolutely untrue. Once again, the village up in arms about what horrible people we are. Whose reputation is suffering here? Sorry, I'm becoming emotional now. The comments on her most recent post were absolutely vile. One of their friends saying that they should sew my wife's vagina shut while she sleeps; that they should send us round to him for some 100% British beef, none of your carpet-munching nonsense. I feel sick.

Well you're certainly right that it's no business of theirs how the child came into your family – and I don't think that you should take the trouble to tell us about it here. As long as you are all happy and the children are well cared for then that's all that counts. Of course it's concerning that all of this might affect the children as well.

You may feel that you're not a quitter but frankly it looks to me as if you might have the whole community against you and you might think that the best thing to do is to get out and go and start somewhere else. Quality of life and happiness of children is much more important than principles. However, that's completely off topic.

Contact the police and start trying to get the evidence. Don't imagine it will be easy. If they really start being obstructive then you might need to suggest them that you may ask the court to order it. However, better not start using that kind of language the police until it's a past resort

Meanwhile, you could feasibly counterclaim against them for the harassment – but it might be better just to concentrate on the defamation for the moment. However, I think you should be complaining to the police in writing about their apparent lack of resources and I think that you should be quick to describe this as a hate crime and now that they have previous for this surely, it shouldn't be too difficult to get further action against them. I'm thinking eventually of an ASBO.

I think you're absolutely right to have a recorder on hand at all times. I would suggest that you look Amazon and buy a dedicated one which you can probably get for less than 50 quid. Have it at hand all the time. Video anything you can if possible – but surreptitiously. You certainly don't want to appear to be provoking anyone.

As for the obscene threats made by their friends, are these made in writing? Haven't you acted on any of them?

I think you should be leveraging all of this now to give yourself maximum credibility. However, don't imagine that it's all going to go away. Once you got a crowd against you then believe me these people have nothing better to do than to fester and the stress on you, your partner and the kids certainly won't get better

You may find the following useful......

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/protocol/prot_def

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part53/pd_part53

Regards

Andy

Let’s just step back a moment and go back to basics regarding defamation?

What exactly was said that he is claiming defamed him?

(If he isn’t identifiable from the posting you are safe to repeat it here for the purpose of a discussion of litigation ......)

Was it:

a) provably “substantially true”?, or

b) a reasonably held honest belief? (Both of which are defences!).

c) Was whatever was said, if not true or a reasonably held belief, likely to cause his reputation actual or likely SERIOUS harm?

Even if you couldn’t use one or both of the defences at a) and b), he’d have to show c).....

So, if you said he was watching you and you felt you had to take the kids back into the house, then

a) applies.... it is a true description of events

b) you reasonable felt that way, so it was an honest belief

c) provided you didn’t say “he was acting like a paedo” or suchlike .... where is the serious harm?

High court is normal for defamation – but not essential. I think you would have a good argument for getting it transfer down the County Court and that would reduce the possibility of costs. If that the reduction of cost would be one of the reasons for requesting the transfer. How much are they claiming?

 

Defamation claims cannot be heard in the County Court unless there is the written agreement of both parties - Practice Direction 7A CPR 2.9.1.

Thank you. Well I didn't know that. (Clearly)

I think it might be a very good tactic in that case to write formally to the complainant and to suggest that in the interests of saving costs that they agree that the matter be heard in the local County Court.

If they agree then that is a good thing because it could reduce costs. If they disagree then in the event of a defeat it could make a High Court judge look more carefully at the costs which the complainants have incurred and the reason for it.

Thank you. Well I didn't know that. (Clearly)

 

I think it might be a very good tactic in that case to write formally to the complainant and to suggest that in the interests of saving costs that they agree that the matter be heard in the local County Court.

 

If they agree then that is a good thing because it could reduce costs. If they disagree then in the event of a defeat it could make a High Court judge look more carefully at the costs which the complainants have incurred and the reason for it.

Surely, if there has been no proper pre action protocols followed i.e the claimant has not sent a letter before claim to the OP stating that unless actions a,b,c etc were taken, then a court claim for defamation would be issued. Also explaining that should they wish to have the matter heard in court, that they would need to consent to the County Court process, as if they refused to provided this consent, such an action in the High Court would have severe cost implications on either side.

Might it be a better move to first state in defence the CPR that has been quoted that the County Court cannot be used for defamation cases, without the consent of both parties. And to then advise that the claimant has not followed CPRxxxx in regard to pre action protocols, as no letter before action has been received by the defendant explaining the complaint and consequences of not coming to agreement. Without the defendant being given opportunity by the claimant following pre action protocols, the defendant is not in a position to consent.

Just a thought. I only pick up bits of knowledge reading and hearing about cases ongoing.

If the OP agreed to the County Court process, then if the claimant has not followed pre action protocols, the OP is accepting this error ( possibly ?) and would need to defend against the POC stated.

If this complainant neighbour does not have the funds to take it to the high court and follow the correct process, then i should imagine it would be the end of the matter.