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    • One other point to note, the more I read, the more I study, the more proficient I feel I am becoming in this area. Make no mistake DBCL if you are reading this, when I win in court, if I have the grounds to make any claims against you, such as breach of GDPR, I shall be doing so.
    • Yep, I read that and thought about trying to find out what the consideration and grace period is at Riverside but not sure I can. I know they say "You must tell us the specific consideration/grace period at a site if our compliance team or our agents ask what it is"  but I doubt they would disclose it to the public, maybe I should have asked in my CPR 31.14 letter? Yes, I think I can get rid of 5 minutes. I am also going to include a point about BPA CoP: 13.2 The reference to a consideration period in 13.1 shall not apply where a parking event takes place. I think that is Deception .... They giveth with one hand and taketh away with the other!
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    • the Town and Country [advertisments ] Regulations 2007 are not easy to understand. Most Council planing officials don't so it's good that you found one who knows. Although he may not have been right if the rogues have not been "controlling" in the car park for that long. The time only starts when the ANPR signs go up, not how long the area has been used as a car park.   Sadly I have checked Highview out and they have been there since at least 2014 . I have looked at the BPA Code of Practice version 8 which covers 2023 and that states Re Consideration and Grace Periods 13.3 Where a parking location is one where a limited period of parking is permitted, or where drivers contract to park for a defined period and pay for that service in advance (Pay & Display), this would be considered as a parking event and a Grace Period of at least 10 minutes must be added to the end of a parking event before you issue a PCN. It then goes on to explain a bit more further down 13.5 You must tell us the specific consideration/grace period at a site if our compliance team or our agents ask what it is. 13.6 Neither a consideration period or a grace period are periods of free parking and there is no requirement for you to offer an additional allowance on top of a consideration or grace period. _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________So you have  now only overstayed 5 minutes maximum since BPA quote a minimum of 10 minutes. And it may be that the Riverside does have a longer period perhaps because of the size of the car park? So it becomes even more incumbent on you to remember where the extra 5 minutes could be.  Were you travelling as a family with children or a disabled person where getting them in and out of the car would take longer. Was there difficulty finding a space, or having to queue to get out of the car park . Or anything else that could account for another 5 minutes  without having to claim the difference between the ANPR times and the actual times.
    • Regarding a driver, that HAS paid for parking but input an incorrect Vehicle Registration Number.   This is an easy mistake to make, especially if a driver has access to more than one vehicle. First of all, upon receiving an NTK/PCN it is important to check that the Notice fully complies with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 before deciding how to respond of course. The general advice is NOT to appeal to the Private Parking Company as, for example, you may identify yourself as driver and in certain circumstances that could harm your defence at a later stage. However, after following a recent thread on this subject, I have come to the conclusion that, in the case of inputting an incorrect Vehicle Registration Number, which is covered by “de minimis” it may actually HARM your defence at a later stage if you have not appealed to the PPC at the first appeal stage and explained that you DID pay for parking and CAN provide proof of parking, it was just that an incorrect VRN was input in error. Now, we all know that the BPA Code of Practice are guidelines from one bunch of charlatans for another bunch of charlatans to follow, but my thoughts are that there could be problems in court if a judge decides that a motorist has not followed these guidelines and has not made an appeal at the first appeal stage, therefore attempting to resolve the situation before it reaches court. From BPA Code of Practice: Section 17:  Keying Errors B) Major Keying Errors Examples of a major keying error could include: • Motorist entered their spouse’s car registration • Motorist entered something completely unrelated to their registration • Motorist made multiple keying errors (beyond one character being entered incorrectly) • Motorist has only entered a small part of their VRM, for example the first three digits In these instances we would expect that such errors are dealt with appropriately at the first appeal stage, especially if it can be proven that the motorist has paid for the parking event or that the motorist attempted to enter their VRM or were a legitimate user of the car park (eg a hospital patient or a patron of a restaurant). It is appreciated that in issuing a PCN in these instances, the operator will have incurred charges including but not limited to the DVLA fee and other processing costs therefore we believe that it is reasonable to seek to recover some of these costs by making a modest charge to the motorist of no more than £20 for a 14-day period from when the keying error was identified before reverting to the charge amount at the point of appeal. Now, we know that the "modest charge" is unenforceable in law, however, it would be up to the individual if they wanted to pay and make the problem go away or in fact if they wanted to contest the issue in court. If the motorist DOES appeal to the PPC explaining the error and the PPC rejects the appeal and the appeal fails, the motorist can use that in his favour at court.   Defence: "I entered the wrong VRN by mistake Judge, I explained this and I also submitted proof of payment for the relevant parking period in my appeal but the PPC wouldn't accept that"   If the motorist DOES NOT appeal to the PPC in the first instance the judge may well use that as a reason to dismiss the case in the claimant's favour because they may decide that they had the opportunity to resolve the matter at a much earlier stage in the proceedings. It is my humble opinion that a motorist, having paid and having proof of payment but entering the wrong VRN, should make an appeal at the first appeal stage in order to prevent problems at a later stage. In this instance, I think there is nothing to be gained by concealing the identity of the driver, especially if at a later stage, perhaps in court, it is said: “I (the driver) entered the wrong VRN.” Whether you agree or not, it is up to the individual to decide …. but worth thinking about. Any feedback, especially if you can prove to the contrary, gratefully received.
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Speeding fine-address not updated at DVLA


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Hi all,

 

I have received a notice 01/09/17 about driving with 35mph in the 30 zone on 14/07/17 ,taken by camera.

I confirmed it was me and was just about to book the speed awareness course.

 

On 21/10/17 I received another one taken at the same place,by same camera saying I drove 36mph.The date of the offence is 06/07/17!!!!!I accept the fact I drove that fast probably as it's a tricky place after a hill.

But...they are sending it 14 weeks after the offence!!!Even if I did not update DVLA when changed address,they have found me with the other notice 8 weeks ago which took place later than this one.

 

Can I contest both or one of them on the basis of late notificitation.They are way out of the 14 day time frame.Or not updating DVLA means it's my fault and I couldn't contest?

 

I am running out of time as the course should be booked very soon.

These fines mean I will struggle immensely with Christmas,so looking forward to your wise advice!Thanks

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How long before these events did you change address without updating the registered address for the vehicle with DVLA ?

 

It would be your fault, if you moved ages before these events. The notifications would have gone to your old address first of all and then returned undelivered. They have tracked you down and resent them.

 

Take the speed awareness course anyway and that should deal with one of them.

 

You will just have to accept and deal with these. Remember that DVLA can report you for not updating your address within reasonable time.

 

Do you have any other points on your licence ? How old are you ?

We could do with some help from you.

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They are out of time in respect of the NTKs but of course you haven’t told the DVLA you’ve moved. This can attract a £1000 fine and technically means you are driving without a valid licence.

 

I suggest redacting the NTKs and posting them here for more knowledgable advice....

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Are the NIPs necessarily out of date so long as they have been served on the OP's last known address as per DVLA? I would feel sure that the law would allow for such aloophole to be closed.

 

By virtue of not updating DVLA then I believe the timeframe would be rightly ignored. I’d be very nervous about appealing...

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Is there any way to gather information from police about the dates of posting them to me before appealing?

 

It is quite a complicated situation as I used to live in a shelter.

My post went through staff.

What if they mixed something up and the letters were on time?

 

I had to sign for all the letters I took from my box though.

 

I could write to them maybe to check their book at shelter.

But that could take time and it does not help that I made a complaint against them...

 

I am not a tech savvy but try and post them,

thanks.

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Ok, let’s break this down into simpler chunks to deal with.

 

You state you had two letters from the Police regarding two speeding offences.

If you are the registered keeper of the car then you should have received one NIP (notice of intended prosecution) for each offence.

 

These letters are usually a two sided affair that shows the offence date, location, and time.

It requires the keeper to either identify the driver or admit to being the driver.

 

Can you please check these two letters and in each case give us the date of offence and the date the NIP was produced.

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Don't think you can upload any documents to a thread until you have made 10 posts or more to this site.

 

In this situation, given that you have moved soon after these offences, i think you should respond to the address shown on the letters. If there is a telephone number, give them a call to ask for more information after explaining what has happened.

 

Given that you don't deny the speeding offences, it is case of sorting out a way to minimise the cost/penalty.

We could do with some help from you.

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Sorry,I try my best.Thanks for your patience.

 

First notice I cannot find,typical.

But the date of offence is confirmed on speed awareness workshop offer.14/07/17.

The NIP came by post on 02/09/17.

 

(For some reason I have until 21/12/17 to complete the course in spite of stating in letter that the expiry date for completing is four months from the date of offence.)

 

Second notice says it was issued on 20/10/17.

Date of offence is 08/07/17.

I did not reply on this one yet.

 

I called the Police and found out that it was sent to my oldest addressed first on 13/07/17 and then to the shelter as I never filled in the V5 document.

 

The lady on the phone said I could appeal against the 2nd notice on the grounds of my financial situation and could probably get the chance of paying in parts.

 

Any experience with that?

Or should I start a new thread for that?

 

I will do the course for the first one to avoid more points on licence.

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This is exactly why one needs to update all agencies and creditors with the latest address.

 

If you take the Police’ word for it and are happy that you were indeed speeding on both occasions and that both NIPS were originally served correctly then the best thing to do would most likely be take the speed awareness course and ask for time to pay the fine for the second offence.

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Thanks for the advice.

To be honest I have been through a lot recently and I never had to deal with things like that before.Learning my lessons now.

It would mean quite a lot of stress for me to appeal this.I believe I would qualify as my situation is not too bright.

Still I hoped that someone might have been through this process to advise me what to expect.

 

I am very grateful for this forum.I came across it browsing Google about speeding fines.Great place,much appreciated!

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