Marc Gander - The Consumer Survival Handbook


A 220 page introduction to all things consumer related by our own BankFodder.

Includes energy companies, mobile phone providers, retailers, banks, insurance companies,debt collection agencies, reclaim companies, secondhand car sellers, cowboy garages, cowboy builders and all the rest who put their own profits before you.

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Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

£19.99 + £1.50 (P&P)


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  1. #81
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    What I've written down in that summary above is pretty much word for word what was said, it didn't last very long.

    I'm not sure what you mean when you say "Would you mind comment is not clear to what it referred too ....
    As an example"?

    This is the sheriff who heard my case https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...tland-33095446

    I wore smart jeans, smart shoes and a T-shirt but perhaps I should have worn a suit after all!

    I'm just preparing for the next hearing and wanted to make sure my understanding of the time bar issue is correct, in case they end having documents that give them a case and I need to use that defence.

    From researching it a bit, am I right in thinking the following:-

    1. The debt was defaulted on 27th Nov 2007, but the date from which time bar would run would be the date on which they COULD have defaulted the account under the terms of the loan, so it could be even earlier than 27th Nov 2007.

    2. It falls on the claimant to prove that the case is not time-barred, by showing that the debt was revived sometime after it could have been defaulted, either my admission to the creditor etc, or more relevantly in my case, payments to the bank or a DCAicon? Do payments to a DCA count where the DCA has no legal right of recovery but has held themselve sout as having a right to recovery, eg by threatening court action etc

    3. If payments to a DCA do count for reviving the debt (whether debt assigned to that DCA or not) then they have to show that payments were made within 5 years of the earliest default date by providing a schedule of payments (a case you linked me to referred to that I think dx, in that it has to be a proper statement of account, not just a date and payment amount.).

    3. Even if they can show that the debt was revived after earliest default date with payments towards the debt, they also have to show that the last such payment was made less than 5 years prior to the claim being raised, otherwise it would also be time-barred.

    4. Any payments I made once time-barred would not count to revive the debt and would actually be recoverable (not that I'd push my luck and go there).

    I know I might not need to mention the timebar issue if they can't produce the agreement etc, but thought I'd better prepare for the worst just in case, so I'd appreciate it if anyone can tell me i'm barking up the wrong tree with any of that,

    in particular whether payments to a DCA count, even if they haven't been assigned the debt (ie any payments before lloyds sold it in April 2013, before which i assume it couldn't have been assigned).

    If you see what I'm getting at, I might have paid a DCA within the last however many years that had they been made to lloyds would have kept the debt alive, but if they were made a to a DCA who pretended to have the right to recover when they didn't (because not assigned to them), do the payments still count for reviving the debt? Or am I clutching at straws.


  2. #82

    Default

    statute barring is 5yrs in Scotland from last payment or use by you
    doesn't matter who you paid and if or if not its enforceable/paperwork.

    but yes they would have to provide written proof of payment and who made it etc

    so when was the last payment?

    By saying "would you mind" maybe he was alluding to the fact that if I asked for dismissal I wouldn't have to, but he'd like me to, I don't know what you guys think. Hopefully i did the right thing?).

    Quote Originally Posted by fuzzel View Post
    I didn't think I'd be nervous but I was a little, mainly because it was a tiny court and I was shouted in and had to stand in the witness box when I went in with nowhere to put to put down my paperwork etc, while the local agent was all ready to go.

    So it was around 12 solicitors plus me standing in the witness box, it just put me on the back foot a bit to start with, as if it was a trial rather than an informal hearing. I'll feel better about it next time now that i know what to expect.

    Yes, it would be great if he were to make an example of them in this case and specifically mention that he wants to discourage such spurious cases or such like, so that it could be referred to by other people down the line who are sued by them. It's one thing having to deal with DCAicon letters, you get used to that and the idea of ignoring them, but like me it must give people a real fright and a lot of worry when they receive a court claim and not just nasty letters.

    shouted in?

    there were not 12 solicitors
    court staff, mostly nothing to do with your case

    probably there for cases to come after yours
    most court rum an en-masse system
    all be there at the start..await their case

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  3. #83
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    I honestly have no idea when the last payment would have been as I was paying token amounts to a number of different DCAs for a number of different debts until around 2014 when I stopped paying due to a combination of financial difficulty and realising from CAGicon that I was probably making payments to people who weren't entitled to it.

    Most of the debts had been paid off by that stage or as good as.
    So it is possible that I was making a payment to them of some sort, although of all thedebts I had, that one is the one I was least likely to be paying as they informed me in 2007 that they were writing off the debt and I don't recall hearing anymore about it until letters from Cabot years later.

    It's probably safer to assume in the meantime that I did though, just in case.
    So really I need them to fail to produce the CCA documents and/or fail to show a chain of assignation from the OC>

    Ah got you - yes the note above contains all the details of what was said. I was trying to be as detailed as I could for that reason - in case there's something in what he said that would be obviously relevant to you guys but not picked up on by me.

    Yes shouted in - the court room was so small that there was only room for the solictors with cases calling and the sheriff clerk/sheriff, so all parties were gathered in the hallway and shouted in by the court officer when their case called.

    It would have been fine had i been able to sit in the room and get a feel for it, but I was bussled in and then there were around 12 solicitors looking me up and down and the court officer told me to stand in what would be the witness box.
    A little intimidating but i'll know what to expect next time.

    You're legal advice was solid DX as when I went through the aspects of "original owner" being stated and not "original creditor" a couple of the solicitors looked at each other and nodded at each other as if they were impressed with my argument, which gave me a wee bit confidence so thanks for that!

    I won't get too carried away though as obviously the sheriff isn't happy with Shoos and wants to stand up for the little guy here, so I'm probably better being careful to avoid coming across as a smart a**e/not needing his help.

    Quote Originally Posted by dx100uk View Post
    By saying "would you mind" maybe he was alluding to the fact that if I asked for dismissal I wouldn't have to, but he'd like me to, I don't know what you guys think. Hopefully i did the right thing?).
    Sorry just read this again and realise it doesn't make sense - I meant that by asking if I minded coming back in 2 weeks, maybe he was alluding to the fact that I could have asked for a dismissal and he'd have given it, but he'd prefer me to agree to continue it the two weeks to allow him to put them on the spot. I might be reading too much into it but that was the impression I got.


  4. #84

    Default Re: Cabot/Shoos SPC claim - old Lloyds TSB loan.

    p'haps the resounding answer would have been...well they have already had xxx months sir...

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  5. #85
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    Default Re: Cabot/Shoos SPC claim - old Lloyds TSB loan.

    Yes, exactly, that's what I was ready to say had the claimant asked for more time, but with him asking the way he did and indicating he was on my side
    , I thought I'd just go with it.

    Hopefully it will work out better in the long run, I'll find out next week. Maybe if they can't produce anything and he's annoyed enough he'll dismiss with decree of absolvitor, or at least advise them that he doesn't want to see them trying again, or any other spurious debt claims.

    I'd have slept better with a dismissal but I suppose they can either produce the docs or they can't. If they do produce the docs they would eventually have raised a fresh action anyway after a dismissal so it would only have bought some time (and some satisfaction of course).

    If they don't I can then point out that they've mislead both myself and the court by saying in the claim that the docs "will be produced in any defended process to follow hereon" which to anyone reading it implies that they already had them to produce.


  6. #86
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    Default Re: Cabot/Shoos SPC claim - old Lloyds TSB loan.

    Morning guys.

    This case calls again on wednesday and I still haven't received anything in response to the CCA Requesticon (now 4 weeks old) and as per the Sheriff saying he wants to see the original agreement.

    Is that a good sign do you think or if they have it will they get away with just producing it on the day?

    I'll be shocked if they have it, but if they do and produce it, and if they can also show a chain of assignation, their case as currently stated would still not allow them to recover anything unless they edited it.

    Is this something the sheriff would allow them to do?
    To go and edit their case?

    I see from the rules there is provision for that in higher value cases but no specific mention of it in the simple rules.

    Sorry for all the hypothetical questions,
    I'm just trying to be prepared so that I'm not caught on the back foot on the day.
    If you can think of anything else I need to be prepared for then please let me know.

    If they don't produce the necessary documents I'll obviously be asking for decree of absolvitor with expenses, failing that a dismissal with expenses which might be more likely.

    Maybe if they produce nothing and I'm lucky he will be so annoyed at them for raising a spurious claim with no supporting documentation that he'll go down the absolvitor route.

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  7. #87

    Default Re: Cabot/Shoos SPC claim - old Lloyds TSB loan.

    Already explained in earlier posts
    Go ring the clerk tell them they have failed the sheriff s orders

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  8. #88
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    Default Re: Cabot/Shoos SPC claim - old Lloyds TSB loan.

    I think this is different as he didn't instruct them to lodge the document before the next hearing, in which case you're right i could phone the court and tell them, but he only told them that he wanted to see the principal agent at the next hearing and that he wanted them to have the original agreement. i.e. He's told them to have it when they turn up on wed.


  9. #89

    Default Re: Cabot/Shoos SPC claim - old Lloyds TSB loan.

    Is this another cmd?

    Well if they do rock up with anything
    It cant be used as you must have a good f ew weeks notice

    Youll be ok

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  10. #90
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    Default Re: Cabot/Shoos SPC claim - old Lloyds TSB loan.

    Quote Originally Posted by dx100uk View Post
    Already explained in another post

    Go ring the clerk tell them they have failed the sheriff s orders
    I think this is different as he didn't instruct them to lodge the document before the next hearing, in which case you're right i could phone the court and tell them, but he only told them that he wanted to see the principal agent at the next hearing and that he wanted them to have the original agreement. i.e. He's told them to have it when they turn up on wed.


  11. #91
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    Default Re: Cabot/Shoos SPC claim - old Lloyds TSB loan.

    Thanks dx and sorry for the double post.

    Yes it's a second cmd, the sheriff having continued with instruction that he wants to see the prinicipal solicitor (rather than a local agent) and the original credit agreement.


  12. #92
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    Just back from court and it was a visiting sheriff (not the same one who was angry at the claimant last time) who heard the continued CMD.

    The principal agent failed to attend as instructed by the original sheriff and just prior to the case calling I was issued with a list of production the claimant apparently lodged yesterday.
    They also submitted an amendmenticon to their claim.
    Shall I uploadicon in a PDFicon the items they have produced?

    I asked for dismissal but the sheriff fixed a proof for 4 weeks from today, allowed parties 2 weeks to lodge productions and allowed me 10 days to respond with my own amendments to my pleadings if, in response to what they are now saying.
    Shall I upload in PDFicon format the amendment and the productions?.

    They are now saying that prime credit were assigned the debt from Lloyds TSB on 27th November 2007 and then assigned from prime credit to Cabot on 29th July 2014.

    They are still referring to a current account in their claim but have lodged a photocopy of a loan agreement from 2001 containing a valid loan account number, but the loan is for 10k and they say that when the debt was assigned to prime in 2007, it had 22,440.64 outstanding, which of course doesn't add up as there is no way even with fines and interest that it could have reached that high, plus I was paying off my debts in the period up until 2007 so I doubt the debt could have grown that far.

    I phoned Lloyds TSB again and spoke to one guy then someone else later this afternoon to try and get more info.

    They are saying that I defaulted on 27th November 2001 (the day Cabot say it was assigned to prime) and he also said that Lloyds definitely owned the debt for this account number until 12th Sep 2012 when they sold it to Cabot.

    They said it was subsequently sold by Cabot onto Apex credit management on 26th April 2013.

    It doesn't make sense that
    (a) cabot are saying Prime credit were assigned the debt from LLoyds on the very day it was defaulted in 2007 and

    (b) that Lloyds have no record of prime credit on their files let alone that it was sold to them in 2007 as claimed.

    It also means that showing I made payments in 2014 onwards doens't solve their time-bar issue because if the payments I made in 2014 onwards are for (according to their document) the account mentioned in the claim (current account) which isn't the one in the credit agreement lodged) then they haven't shown any payments made to revive the time bar clock that would have started sometime before 2007 when it was defaulted..

    I don't know what I thought i was paying them for at that time because as I say I had a few loans and overdrafts with them over the years.

    LLoyds say the loan account in the CCA was a "consolidated loan and overdraft" acc.
    But again that's not the account they're referring to in the claim and also not the account in the CCA which is dated 2001 and had to have been one of the earlier loans I had with them.

    if I defaulted in Aug 2007 and the debt wasn't sold by LLoyds until sep 2012 the case would be timebarredicon when sold, unless they show I made payments in that period to LLoyds (who according to LLoyds owned it for the 5 years after default to 12/9/2012. ( i think that's correct for timebar?).

    As is, they only show payments made from 2014 onwards, after Lloyds say it was sold to apex in april 2014 (even though letters sent since have come from cabot) and those payments are not to an account in the CCA.

    Both Lloyds agents were very clear that they owned the debt until it was sold in 2012 to Cabot, who then sold to Apex in 2013. . (though one agent didn't seem to notice it had been sold to cabot in 2012 before they sold to apex in 2013).

    Here's what cabot produced today and I'll upload if you're happy for me to do that.
    There are quite a few pages to it.

    1. A loan agreement dated 8/10/2001 that matches the loan account the guy at Lloyds was talking to me about aswell as a direct debiticon mandate from my then Lloyds current account to that loan account.

    2. A letter to me dated 18/7/16 from Cabot saying
    "we are part of Cabot Credit management group, which as recently bought the account you held with Lloyds bank -loan.
    We are now responsible for managing your account and receiving your future payments".

    It also has a page two which says it appoints a list of companies as appointed representatives (one of which is Apex credit management ltd who LLoyds say they sold the loan to in 2013) and says I will receive notice as to which one will be administering my account.

    It makes no mention of prime credit or any assignations from LLoyds to prime, or prime to them (which is what they are now saying has happened).

    3. A letter from Cabot dated 24/7/16 in which they refer to a balance of 3835.95 that is waiting to be paid. PLease set up a plan etc.

    4. A letter dated 11th August 2016 saying "you need to make a new plan".

    5. A letter dated 22nd August 2016 showing payments made from an opening balance of 1st Aug 2014 to 31st Jul 2015, showing 4 payment sof 25. BUT, the letter refers to the current account number that is actually my old current account, despite calling it a loan. It also says that "date agreement became an executed agreement 23rd Jan 2014"

    6. A letter dated 31st July showing four payments of 25 made between 12th Aug 2016 and 13th MAr 2017.

    7. A letter dated 23rd Aug 2017 which is a "notice of sums in arrears" and still shows the wrong account number, referring to a date of agreement of 23rd Jan 2009 and three payments of 25 made on 11th Nov 2016 to 13th Mar 2017.

    to summarise,
    they have produced a CCA for a loan taken out in 2001 with an account number matching the account LLoyds say they didn't sell until 26th April 2013,

    They are claiming for an account number that doesn't match that CCA account number and have provided statements of payment to an account which doesn't match that account CCA account number (and which was in fact my current account).

    Their letter saying they have bought the debt also mentions no account number, just their own reference which doesn't match up, plus it doesn't say who they bought it from.

    the whole thing is a bit of a mess now and I'm left with a proof date while still not knowing which of the various debts I had with Lloyds I'm being chased for, or which company or branch of cabot possibly, has had the debt and when.

    I recorded the conversation with the agents at LLoyds recoveries dept but I'm not sure how admissable that would be at the proof?

    They refused to send me anything in writing saying that it's up to the current debt owner and they're not allowed to send me anything.

    What they did say was that they were only asked for a copy of the credit agreement by Cabot on 11th Spetember by telephone and they emailed a copy of the CCA to them, which is the one they have lodged today.

    They have letters showing payments here and there for 25, but to account number that was a current account, not a loan acc, and therefore aren't showing any payments made to the loan account they have the CCA for.

    There are so many parts of the claim that make no sense, and therefore can be attacked, that I'm not sure where to start, or more importantly what I'd be allowed to lead evidence on/what they are allowed to lead evidence on.

    For example, will the sheriff allow me to play the 20 minute voice recording of my call with Lloyds from today that confirms that they owned the debt until sep 2012?

    My first thoughts are that whatever debt they have for the CCA loan from 2001, they have nothing to show I made payments to it after defaulting in 2007 (the relevant date being my last payment anyway, not the default date", only payments of 25 to an account with a different acc number ending 896.

    It's that account number ending 896 that they say they are pursuing in their claim, so the CCA lodged doesn't give any evidence to support their claim, just that I had another loan with Lloyds by a different account number.

    They also still haven't shown any chain of assignation and given the conflicting info from lloyds which says it was lloyds debt until 2012, they would have to show that if they are saying it was assigned in 2007.

    Im just gutted that the original sheriff wasn't there as I'm sure he'd have dismissed it with the agent not showing up and the fact the CCA lodged doesn't show the account claimed for. I asked for a continuation but this sheriff wanted to fix a proof.

    I wondered whether I should issue a CCA ASAP to LLoyds TSB to try and get something showing the selling date they are giving me over the phone, to confirm it is in fact 2012 to cabot, and not 2007 to prime (I'm assuming the sheriff won't let me play a 20 minute conversation on my phone to prove that?).

    Will I need to amend my response now to state that I want to rely on timebar as a defence?
    do i need to add in these facts I'm sharing with you about these alternative dates for selling of the debt according to Lloyds? ( I would if mentioning timebar I assume as it's relevant).

    Or would I get away with bringing up all this info at the proof itself?
    I don't want to help make their case for them but I also want to able to lead evidence on all these points and no to be refused to give that evidence because I haven't mentioned it in my response.

    Thanks again.

    **** please note that it's 27th Nov 2007 that Lloyds are saying I defaulted, not 2011 as I wrote above. Sorry if the post is a bit disjointed, I typed it once before and lost it all when I was logged out, so had to start over.

    Having read over the rules again regarding the proof/hearing,
    it looks like I would have to make a recovery of documents application to the court to recover anything I can from Lloyds showing the dates they sold the debt referred to in the CCA, and also call someone from Lloyds to court as a witness to speak to those documents?

    It definitely seems like a crucial issue in relation to timebar,

    especially if they amend their pleadings again to pursue me for the loan acc number in the CCA and not the current account one. They'd still have the issue of the statements showing payments to an account other than the one in the CCA, but if they have someone from Cabot there saying they bought the debt in 2007 as claimed, I'd have no answer to it without someone from Lloyds there to confirm otherwise.

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  13. #93

    Default Re: Cabot/Shoos SPC claim - old Lloyds TSB loan.

    yes scan everything up one multipage PDFicon please
    read uploadicon.

    I don't think prime existed in 2007 either

    apex are now part of cabot group.

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  14. #94
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    Default Re: Cabot/Shoos SPC claim - old Lloyds TSB loan.

    Thanks DX, I'll go and uploadicon those now.

    What are your thoughts re Lloyds document recovery/witness calling? With only two weeks allowed for lodging documents, I'd have to get moving quickly on those to get them lodged in time, or I'd have to ask for them to be accepted late if Lloyds were slow at getting back to me.


  15. #95

    Default Re: Cabot/Shoos SPC claim - old Lloyds TSB loan.

    you wont need Lloyds nor can you use the tapes
    wont need too

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  16. #96
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    Default Re: Cabot/Shoos SPC claim - old Lloyds TSB loan.

    Sorry for the delay, here are the amendments and list of evidence again. The mailed copies were still coming out faint when scanned but I increased the contrast this time so it's much clearer. The 2 pages of amendmenticon are still in small text but fine when you zoom in.

    Thanks.

    Attachments Pending Approval Attachments Pending Approval

  17. #97

    Default Re: Cabot/Shoos SPC claim - old Lloyds TSB loan.

    you forgot to redact them
    quick observation - you have NEVER HAD NOR SIGNED
    any agreement with the CLAIMANT...MUPPETS!!

    shoos as usual
    they haven't a clue what they are doing!!

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    Fantastic, thank you. Would you still like me to go ahead and repost a redacted version now? I'm at the PC anyway.

    And yes, their written case is a mess but I just worry how much leaway they will be given when it comes to presenting the evidence.

    I mean, if they prove what they have written down, they can't win the case because the loan account number they are saying was bought (and their only evidence for that is a letter to me saying "we bought this debt", not even saying who from) is not the account they have a CCA for in evidence.

    I hope they're not allowed to change that at the hearing and insert the correct account number?
    Or edit saying that they had a contract with me to saying that I had a contract with LLoyds etc?

    I'm surprised the sheriff let it go to a hearing actually as when I read about my understanding was that they can only lead evidence to support what they have written down, which in this case would mean they lose because proving what they have claimed wouldn't provide a basis for recovery (ie that they bought my old current account).

    I thought that was a general legal principle, but now I'm not sure it applies to these simple procedure rules, otherwise the sheriff ought to have dismissed it as I asked.

    I did wonder whether that is the case in these rules but the sheriff is happy for them to try and prove their non-sensical claims, but it would seem a waste of court time if that's how he was seeing it.

    At the continued cmd on Wednesday,
    I informed the court that the account sued for is not the account they have provided a CCA for and the account they have provided the CCA for is not the account their statements of accounts relate to, in order to argue that the case still gave no basis for recovery should be dismissed.

    I suppose it's now possible that they try and amend in different details again so in that sense trying to get a dismissal has backfired a bit as it has given them a heads up on where their case is falling down (which they should have noticed themselves of course anyway if they even bothered to check the documents they lodged against their written claim and the amendmenticon)

    Sorry if I'm not making sense in that paragraph above.

    What I was trying to say is that I was under the impression that the claim details they have written down has to provide, if proven, a legal basis for recovery otherwise the case should be dismissed.

    Also, I thought that at the evidential hearing/proof they would only be allowed to lead evidence that is relevant to the details of their claim,
    ie they can't go leading evidence about how they have a legal basis for recovery of the loan account in the CCA agreement, if what their claims details say is that they are claiming for a different account number.

    Sorry if I'm getting a bit confused but the way sheriff dealt with it last week seemed to go against those ideas/principles.


  19. #99

    Default

    the truth is they don't actuall know what they are litigating over
    they never expected the claim to be defended anyway...default Decree.

    take only what THEY have provided to date actual evidence...
    and pull it apart using their OWN documentation.

    yes they can change the pleading
    but no, they cant do that at a CMD.

    only two things can happen.

    the sheriff dismisses the case.

    it moved to a proof hearing.

    nothing else.

    PLEASE REFRAIN FROM HITTING 'REPLY WITH QUOTE' IF YOU ARE SIMPLY REPLYING TO THE LAST POST IN A THREAD..JUST TYPE!!
    it makes a thread twice as long to scroll through..save data download times and costs
    If you want advice please PM me a link to your thread. PM advice is not allowed!!
    DX
    RIP Martin3030

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  20. #100
    Basic Account Holder
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    You'll regret it if you don't.




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    What they did at the cmd was lodge the amendmenticon and the list of evidence, so both were only accepted at the cmd.

    "the truth is they don't actuall know what they are litigating over
    they never expected the claim to be defended anyway...default Decree."

    ..... yes I totally agree, which is why I was suprised that it wasn't dismissed at the cmd.

    So, as it stands, I have until a week on Wednesday to make my own amendments in response to them having amended and also to lodge any documents of my own. That gives rise to a couple of questions I'm not sure about:-

    1. Do I need to lodge my own amendment in response to theirs to say anything specific (eg about the facts as I know them to be about wrong account etc).

    I don't want to do that as it will show them my hand to some extent, but I also don't want to not have said enough in my response as it stands to let me say all these things that I have in mind. Or, can I say all these things mentioned above in defence without having to?

    In particular I'm thinking of wanting to say what LLyds told me, ie the dates I called them and what they said about selling the debt in 2012 to cabot, then being resold to apex in 2013.
    Can I say those things without amending them in to my response and would the sheriff be annoyed at me for not doing that if I go into detail about it at the hearing and I could have amended it in?

    2. Do I need to amend to add in a time-bar argument, which is relevant assuming the sheriff doesn't accept the statements of account because they have the wrong acc number on them (not the loan on the CCA they lodged),

    OR, can I argue that the case was sold to cabot originally in 2012 and that it was time barredicon at that point due to it being more than 5 years after the default date?

    Can the clock be restarted by me paying cabot in 2014-2017 (despite their records showing the payments being to the current account number and not a loan).

    I assume they woud argue if I start talking about my calls with LLoyds that they ought to have been made aware that I would give evidence on that?

    3. Is there anything I need to lodge/witnesses I need to call?
    I've no idea how I would get someone from LLoyds to speak to my phone callsicon with them and the debt being sold in 2012 to cabot.

    So I guess that's just my word against cabot's given that they have no evidence for Credit 1 having bought it in 2007 (which was impossible).

    4. Where is the best place to find evidence that credit 1 weren't around in 2007 (as you mentioned dx) and should I lodge something to that effect as an item of evidence between now and a week on wednesday.

    5. Am I right in thinking that my main lines of defence are :-

    (a) Why fundamentally, their case can't win because it shows no legal basis for recovery - The account they are saying they bought was not a loan account and is not the account on the CCA they lodged.

    There is no evidence they bought that loan account (or the current account for that matter, other than their letter to me.)
    And no evidence for any debt outstanding to the account they are claiming for.

    Therefore the statements to account they are claiming for are irrelevant because the account paid was the current account and not the one on the CCA, and the CCA is irrelevant because it's not the account they are claiming for and with no payments to account for it, would be time barred in any case.

    (b) Because even their case as stated is factually incorrect/impossible
    - The loan account in the CCA was owned by lloyds (per their phonecalls with me) until 12th September 2012 when it was sold to cabot, and then onto apex in 2013 and therefore could not have been bought by credit 1 in 2007 (the date of default).
    PLus credit 1 did not exist then.

    So even if they change their pleadings to sue for the loan account and not the current account, the dates given by lloyds mean the case was time barred when sold in 2012 to cabot (by at least a month) and the payments to the account in their statements could not have restarted the clock even had they been made to a loan account (is that correct)?.

    (c) Because there was no contract between myself and cabot or myself and credit 1 and no evidence of such. (does their letter to me prove any assigantion? It certainly doens't proive a chain of assignation from lloyds and tehy have no letter produced showing that lloyds sold it to credit 1 in 2007).

    I know it's most likely as you say that they didn't expect it to be defended, but unless they drop the case before the proof, I'm assuming I need to prepare as if they will appear and try and win it, given that they've come this far and produced documents.

    Sorry one more question
    - should I make comments at the start of the proof about how they have behaved in this case - they only asked lloyds for a CCA the day before the last cmd having already failed to respond to the CCA Requesticon, plus the case was continued for their principal agent to appear and they didn't show up, therefore couldn't answer the sheriff's questions at the last CMD. Or is that in the past now and best left alone?


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