Marc Gander - The Consumer Survival Handbook


A 220 page introduction to all things consumer related by our own BankFodder.

Includes energy companies, mobile phone providers, retailers, banks, insurance companies,debt collection agencies, reclaim companies, secondhand car sellers, cowboy garages, cowboy builders and all the rest who put their own profits before you.

£6.99



Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

£19.99 + £1.50 (P&P)


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  1. #141
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    Default Re: Cabot/Shoos SPC claim - old Lloyds TSB loan.

    resit please

    can I have the original text of box D4 from the original claimformicon
    if this contain pers info then I wish to see it and therefore send via PM please

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  2. #142
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    Default Re: Cabot/Shoos SPC claim - old Lloyds TSB loan.

    work in progress

    with regard to the amended plea by the claimant:
    .
    1. the respondent has never entered into any agreement with the claimant whether this be under or outside of the consumer crediticon act regulations under account number XXXX quoted on the Form 9D.
    .
    2.as detailed by the respondent at the previous CMD of [DATE], the account number quoted relates to a bank account [sort code XXX account number xxx] which i admit i did have with lloyds bank.
    .
    this account was closed on 25th November 2007, it did not have an overdraft facility.
    .
    3.Having checked with Lloyds numerous times since the original court claim dated xxxx, they repeatedly state there was no outstanding balance.
    .
    3.The account xxxx has had zero transactions since 25/11/2007, the claimant has failed to show any payments relating to nor has produced any paperwork relating to the specific account number under litigation.

    4. it is averred by the respondent any claim against account number XXXX is now statute barredicon pursuant to the provisions of The Prescription and Limitation (Scotland) Act 1973, Section 6
    .
    If, which is denied, the claimant contends that the respondent is in breach of the alleged contract, in excess of 5 years have elapsed since the date on which any cause of action for breach accrued for the benefit of the Claimant. under Scottish laws the debt is now extinguished
    .
    4. The Claimant's claim to be entitled to payment of x or any other sum, or relief of any kind is denied.

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  3. #143
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    Default Re: Cabot/Shoos SPC claim - old Lloyds TSB loan.

    as they are free I would be sending 3 SARicon s

    one to Lloyds
    one to Apex
    one to Prime

    undoubtedly they will raise a new claim under the correct account number.
    you need to prepare for that.

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  4. #144
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    Default Re: Cabot/Shoos SPC claim - old Lloyds TSB loan.

    regarding the above
    these payments that were made
    would they have been from a Lloyds bank account [the payments to prime/apex]

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  5. #145
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    Default Re: Cabot/Shoos SPC claim - old Lloyds TSB loan.

    reqork two.

    ith regard to the amended plea by the claimant:
    .
    1.as detailed by the respondent at the CMD of DATE, the account number quoted appears to relate to a bank account [sort code xx-xx-xx account number xxxxxxxx] which i admit i did have with Lloyds bank.

    this account was defaulted on 30th Aug 2007 though the claimant has failed to date to produce this said default notice nor any written evidence from the original creditor , Lloyds, that this was ever sent.

    The account was closed by Lloyds on 25th November 2007.
    this is further supported by the direct debiticon Mandate Produced by the Claimant themselves as Part of Their C1 List of documents.

    This shows the bank account number they are using in this litigate being the funding account for a separately numbered loan which the claimant has further under produced a signed consumer crediticon agreement for. What relevance this has to the claimants claim for a sun outstanding on a bank account is somewhat puzzling.
    .
    There is no evidence produced relating to any outstanding balance at that time of the bank account closure, though the claimant under their revised D4 references a figure of some 22,440.46 as at the alleged assignation to Prime Credit on 27th November 2007, but has failed to produce any notice of assignment to prove this fact nor the balance quoted.

    For want of trying to clarify this +22k figure, it is to be noted that this far exceeds the total of any loan, even though this is not what is being litigated over.

    However, the loan was 306.26 X 60mts = 18,135.60, and signed on 8th October 2001.
    Even if we assume a mistaken number that the claimant has used twice now in their court forms, there would have been 57 payments of 17,456.82 made till the date of the Lloyds default, so only some 678.78 short, if the default/assignment were for the loan, not +22k the claimant states.

    3.Having checked with Lloyds numerous times since the original court claim dated xxxx, they state there was no outstanding balance on the bank account quoted as the ltigated account number.
    .
    3.The claimant has produced no evidence of any payments by myself till their statements in evidenced in documents C5 and C6.

    thus a period of 5yrs had accrued before
    1. the closing of the account/assignation to prime credit and
    2. the first payment to the claimant cabot.

    I aver that the account was already statute barredicon pursuant to the provisions of The Prescription and Limitation (Scotland) Act 1973, Section 6 when i mistakenly was duped under duress to make payments to the claimant.
    .
    If, which is denied, the claimant contends that the respondent is in breach of the alleged contract, in excess of 5 years had elapsed since the date on which any cause of action for breach accrued for the benefit of the Claimant. under Scottish laws the debt is now extinguished
    .
    4. The Claimant's claim to be entitled to payment of x or any other sum, or relief of any kind is denied.

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  6. #146
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    Default Re: Cabot/Shoos SPC claim - old Lloyds TSB loan.

    Quote Originally Posted by dx100uk View Post
    reqork two.

    ith regard to the amended plea by the claimant:
    .
    1.as detailed by the respondent at the CMD of DATE, the account number quoted appears to relate to a bank account [sort code xx-xx-xx account number xxxxxxxx] which i admit i did have with Lloyds bank.

    this account was defaulted on 30th Aug 2007 though the claimant has failed to date to produce this said default notice nor any written evidence from the original creditor , Lloyds, that this was ever sent.

    The account was closed by Lloyds on 25th November 2007.
    this is further supported by the direct debiticon Mandate Produced by the Claimant themselves as Part of Their C1 List of documents.

    This shows the bank account number they are using in this litigation being the funding account for a separately numbered loan which the claimant has further under produced a signed consumer crediticon agreement for. What relevance this has to the claimants claim for a sum outstanding on a current account is somewhat puzzling.
    .
    There is no evidence produced relating to any outstanding balance at that time of the bank account closure, though the claimant under their revised D4 references a figure of some 22,440.46 as at the alleged assignation to Prime Credit on 27th November 2007, but has failed to produce any notice of assignment to prove this fact nor the balance quoted.

    For want of trying to clarify this +22k figure, it is to be noted that this far exceeds the total of any loan, even though this is not what is being litigated over. - I was thinking it's enough for us to show the loan amount being nothing like the amount they say was assigned.

    However, the loan was 306.26 X 60mts = 18,135.60, and signed on 8th October 2001.
    Even if we assume a mistaken number that the claimant has used twice now in their court forms, there would have been 57 payments of 17,456.82 made till the date of the Lloyds default, so only some 678.78 short, if the default/assignment were for the loan, not +22k the claimant states. - I'm reluctant to say too much on this as it might highlight to cabot there are additional sums they could be suing for

    3.Having checked with Lloyds numerous times since the original court claim dated xxxx, they state there was no outstanding balance on the bank account quoted as the litigated account number. [COLOR="red"]They weren't actually able to confirm whtehr and what balance was on teh current account at the end, only that an overdraft an dloans were consolidated.
    .
    3.The claimant has produced no evidence of any payments by myself between the date of deafult and the dates contained withintheir statements in documents C5 and C6.

    thus a period of 5yrs had accrued before
    1. the closing of the account and alleged assignation to prime credit and
    2. the first payment to the claimant cabot.

    I aver that at the time these payments were made the account was already statute barredicon pursuant to the provisions of The Prescription and Limitation (Scotland) Act 1973, Section 6 when i mistakenly was duped under duress to make payments to the claimant.
    .
    If, which is denied, the claimant contends that the respondent is in breach of the alleged contract, in excess of 5 years had elapsed since the date on which any cause of action for breach accrued for the benefit of the Claimant. under Scottish laws the debt is now extinguished
    .
    4. The Claimant's claim to be entitled to payment of x or any other sum, or relief of any kind is denied.
    Thanks for doing all that dx, I will try and comment on your amendments in red.

    You'll see Im' suggesting taking out some detail, purely because the sheriff, when I asked fo rtime to amend in response to their amendmenticon, said to be careful what I wished for, which to me was alluding to the fact that I'm already on solid ground so don't try and fix what's broken sort of thing. Maybe I misinterpreted taht, but if as you say they try and raise additional actions after this case, I don't want to make things easier for them by breaking down any numbers, or giving suggestions as to where their figure of22k+ came from since at the moment they seem to be working under the assumpion that the difference between that and the 3.7k they are suing for was paid off. I hop ethat makes sense to you.

    So I was thinking that if they can only win or fail on the account they are chasing for, the current account, on which they should fail for the reason you discuss above re no CCA (because their won't be for a current account), timebar, no asssignation chain etc.

    Can I ask, what did you mean by the assignation chain in Scotland twaddle? I'm on the wrong track with that? The first sheriff seemed to think there needs to be a chain of assignation. Or were you meaning twaddle on their part in their explanation re buying from prime credit etc?

    Re your query about the payments being made from a lloyds account, thos epaid to the loan while it was running were made from the current account they are suing for as you point out, but after that was closed, I have no idea what if any payments were made. The ones they mention in the statements of account from 2014-2017 woudl not have come from a LLoyds account. They would have come from a current account i have with another bank and made simply to try and keep a DCAicon off my back sort of thing, before I realised how toothless they are.

    If they do try and raise new claims for the other loans, all of which must have defaulted and were closed in 2007, they will have still have the same time bar issue to overcome, assuming they don't have record of payments I made to them or anyone else towards actual loan accounts in the period 2007 to 2014 when they made contact with me. I ftehy have been recording any payments as being for "orignial account" being my current account, as they have done here, any payments made that they haven't mentioned/discovered yet might also have the wrong account on them.


  7. #147
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    Default Re: Cabot/Shoos SPC claim - old Lloyds TSB loan.

    I hope you don't think it rude of me trying to cut out some of those details - if you think they need to go in then i will absolutely put them in. I'm just trying down the amount of info I throw their way so that it's enough to let me lead evidence sufficent to win the current case, but no so much as to help them help working out what it is they have bought from LLoyds, not that it's even clear to us.

    I'll PM you a copy of their original section D4

    Do I need to make any averments about the info I got from lloyds, ie the dates of selling to cabot in sep 2012 and it then being resold by them to apex in 2013? Or can I just submit by own verbal evidence on that as being what they told me over the phone?


  8. #148
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    Default Re: Cabot/Shoos SPC claim - old Lloyds TSB loan.

    Original section D4

    Attachments Pending Approval

  9. #149
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    Default Re: Cabot/Shoos SPC claim - old Lloyds TSB loan.

    what im doing is getting it all down to cover all bases
    then well go thru it and cut out what is obv unnecessary

    yes it might well be we simply go with the SB statement with a bit of fluff around it
    thus not going down the line of introducing why it cant be the loan etc etc
    but that needs carefully deliberation using the info they have to rely upon

    as it stands they ref the loan, so at present I think its usage and explanation is needed at present.

    dx

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  10. #150
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    Default Re: Cabot/Shoos SPC claim - old Lloyds TSB loan.

    OK that makes sense, thanks.

    BTW my comments in post above to your amendments, the line @They weren't actually able to confirm whether and what balance was on the current account at the end, only that an overdraft and loans were consolidated" should be in red but isn't.

    They weren't able to confirm whether there was an overdraft on it or not when closed, only that the debt sold was a consolidation of loans and overdraft. It's possible that I had a loan which consolidated other loans (including the 2001 one) and an overdraft, but if that's what happened then I don't know the details and so far at least, neither do cabot.

    Do they need both a relevant CCA and proof of assignation chain to be successful in claiming for a debt, specifically a loan? (obviously they can't for the current account they're claiming for but I'm thinking of future cases and back up in this case if timebar were to fail)? You'd think if they could show the assignation chain they would have by now.


  11. #151
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    Default Re: Cabot/Shoos SPC claim - old Lloyds TSB loan.

    I will get those SARicon's sent on Monday.

    Actually I'm just thinking, if they don't have to respond for 40 days, which takes it beyond the proof date for this case, is it worth requesting it now and risking LLoyds digging even deeper and finding info that Cabot can then use in this case? I mean, cabot obtained the CCA they lodged on the day before the last CMD, so unless they lodge anything else before the proof, they have all they are getting from Lloyds to date. Given their laziness throughout the whole process (leaving contacting lloyds until the last minute before the CMD) they might not go back to LLoyds, but if LLoyds do more digging because I SAR them they could end up finding more info that helps cabot and I get ambushed with it again near the proof/the proof postponed.

    It made me think that it's better sending the SARs after the proof has been decided, though I'm probably just overthinking things again


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    Default Re: Cabot/Shoos SPC claim - old Lloyds TSB loan.

    LLoyds have already confirmed that their loyalties lie with cabot by refusing to write to me with proof of the debt-selling dates they have, so I'd expect any info they find would be forwarded to cabot before me, especially if LLoyds are realising now that they gave cabot the wrong acc details when they sold it.


  13. #153
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    Default Re: Cabot/Shoos SPC claim - old Lloyds TSB loan.

    SARicon will prove or disprove time bar..me thinks all it is..

    one last q..

    all of these accounts were taken out whilst resident in Scotland?

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  14. #154
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    Default Re: Cabot/Shoos SPC claim - old Lloyds TSB loan.

    Quote Originally Posted by fuzzel View Post
    LLoyds have already confirmed that their loyalties lie with cabot by refusing to write to me with proof of the debt-selling dates they have, so I'd expect any info they find would be forwarded to cabot before me, especially if LLoyds are realising now that they gave cabot the wrong acc details when they sold it.
    doubt that's true
    they would care. oneway or the other. they got paid and wrote it all off

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  15. #155
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    Default Re: Cabot/Shoos SPC claim - old Lloyds TSB loan.

    OK great, I just felt that because they refused to write to me because of cabot now owning the debt, even just to say "you had this acc number and it was a current account closed on x date" that they were not wanting to step on cabot's toes.

    I will get those sent on monday then.

    Yes all loans and debts I ever had were taken out in scotland.


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    Default Re: Cabot/Shoos SPC claim - old Lloyds TSB loan.

    good brilliant.

    forgetting literally everything you and I have written.

    I would 99% suspect this is like most cabot Scottish claims here with shoos or nolans whereby they run to the English rules of 6yrs SB
    so have automactically issued this claim to get in before that date regardless of the outcome to halt the SB clock..

    ...they always forget it Scotland or don't realise, and its 5yrs so 9/10 they are already too later then try to back peddle, divert away from the fact by using anything they can to overwhelm the judge/respondent, typically this is with a whole load of twaddle like statements etc
    they hope the weight of their evidence clouds the real issue...its already SB/extinguished and dead in the water.

    yours is looking the same

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    Default Re: Cabot/Shoos SPC claim - old Lloyds TSB loan.

    Yes it definitely looks that way that way.


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    Default Re: Cabot/Shoos SPC claim - old Lloyds TSB loan.

    Quote Originally Posted by fuzzel View Post
    OK that makes sense, thanks.

    BTW my comments in post above to your amendments, the line @They weren't actually able to confirm whether and what balance was on the current account at the end, only that an overdraft and loans were consolidated" should be in red but isn't.

    They weren't able to confirm whether there was an overdraft on it or not when closed, only that the debt sold was a consolidation of loans and overdraft. It's possible that I had a loan which consolidated other loans (including the 2001 one) and an overdraft, but if that's what happened then I don't know the details and so far at least, neither do cabot.

    Do they need both a relevant CCA and proof of assignation chain to be successful in claiming for a debt, specifically a loan? (obviously they can't for the current account they're claiming for but I'm thinking of future cases and back up in this case if timebar were to fail)? You'd think if they could show the assignation chain they would have by now.
    Can you confirm your thoughts on that bottom line please dx, just so I don't go in saying they can't win because the don't have CCA or assignation chain. Just so I don't look a fool by saying they must show both, if that's not correct.


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    Default Re: Cabot/Shoos SPC claim - old Lloyds TSB loan.

    I know timebar is the main argument but the more arguments for absolvitor I can give the better?


  20. #160
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    Default Re: Cabot/Shoos SPC claim - old Lloyds TSB loan.

    Well no
    You are rubbishing their total claim

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Reclaim the Right Ltd. - reg.05783665 in the UK reg. office:- 923 Finchley Road London NW11 7PE
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