even the birds are getting their flu "This is the first time avian flu has been identified in the UK this winter ...', well h5ns whatever that means

https://www.farminguk.com/news/Seventeen-wild-birds-confirmed-with-bird-flu-in-Dorset_48346.html

at least '...The strain, however, is the European strain, as opposed to the Asian strain, which is not associated with humans...'

H5N6.

From that article: "Defra, via the World Organisation for Animal Health (OIE), has confirmed High Path Avian Influenza in Abbotsbury, Dorset."

I suspect they mean "HIGHLY PATHOGENIC" rather than "HIGH PATH".

" while the disease does not represent a threat to the public, it is highly infectious and deadly to birds.", so it is highly pathogenic to birds.

If it isn't a threat to the public, then it is either (or both!) of:

a) Not easily transmitted to humans from birds, (and/or)

b) Not likely to cause severe disease if it does get transmitted....

So, no concern for it causing a major problem in humans, just so long as it doesn't mutate (+/- co-infect with a more pathogenic strain, that then may swap genes, increasing the pathogenicity of the resulting strain).

hopefully they wont get the asian strain (which it infers could pose a risk to humans). though hasn't the asian strain been around in the uk for quite awhile before!

apparently japan are culling their chicks again re h5.

a bit off topic i know, but maybe it could be somehow related re a virus

Just look after yourselves, if you feel your body is struggling get to the GP. We battle on with paracetemols but there's a point where they are not the answer. We battle on but there's a point where you need more help. A friend of mine ended up in hosp with pleurisy thinking cough meds would help. I had a nasty cough couldn't eat bed ridden a couple of years ago. Rang docs said I was coming to surgery and would wait if no appointments. Just about drove there and explained to doc lets try antibiotics or next stop is hosp. Antibios worked thank goodness but I knew my body was going down.

imo, paracet are never the answer. just a mask.

it's the usual see how it is after a couple three weeks. take a placebo, if no joy, see a gp.

then when get there it is see how it goes for a couple of weeks.

hang on i've been like this for 4+ weeks!

damn those birds.

If you're bed ridden with birds get help!

If you're bed ridden with birds get help!

bedridden with birds sounds good, no help needed there. so long as they dont have h5

glad you're well:madgrin:

the banter, there should be more of it.

laughter, the best medicine.

Plenty of colds/flu and other things going around work, causing sickness.

Glad I was a sickly child, so my immune system was well developed before becoming an adult.

thats a fair point about developing a good immune system.

nowadays, its anti bacterial/virus this and that, sprays, wipes, etc. so childs now they may be less exposed to certain bacteria, and so may not develop certain natural immunity as a child.

but, the flu virus can't be killed can it?

what are the stats. is there more young/mid adults (rather than elderly/with other ill) suffering from flu now.

this is interesting;

'...In the UK the nasal flu spray has worked well in young people since it was introduced in 2013. It was used for many years in the US and has a good safety profile. Research from 2016 showed that the nasal flu vaccine was no longer working well in children in the US, and for this reason the vaccine is no longer recommended for use in the US. However, research in the UK shows the opposite...'

http://vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/nasal-flu-vaccine

didn't realise this; !'The 1918 flu epidemic is estimated to have affected half the world's population, and killed 40-50 million people worldwide. .....' above link.

thats a fair point about developing a good immune system.

nowadays, its anti bacterial/virus this and that, sprays, wipes, etc. so childs now they may be less exposed to certain bacteria, and so may not develop certain natural immunity as a child.

but, the flu virus can't be killed can it?

what are the stats. is there more young/mid adults (rather than elderly/with other ill) suffering from flu now.

this is interesting;

'...In the UK the nasal flu spray has worked well in young people since it was introduced in 2013. It was used for many years in the US and has a good safety profile. Research from 2016 showed that the nasal flu vaccine was no longer working well in children in the US, and for this reason the vaccine is no longer recommended for use in the US. However, research in the UK shows the opposite...'

http://vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/nasal-flu-vaccine

 

didn't realise this; !'The 1918 flu epidemic is estimated to have affected half the world's population, and killed 40-50 million people worldwide. .....' above link.

The flu viruses are easy enough to kill. They are “enveloped” viruses, so anything that disrupts the envelope (such as alcohol hand gel used to disinfect clean hands) will do it.

The difference in the effectiveness of the live attenuated vaccine for children observed between the US and the U.K. is that the guideline for children in the US also gives a dose of the inactivated vaccine (used here in adults) earlier. Hence less additional protection given by the subsequent live vaccine in the USA compared with the U.K.

A downside to this is that if the USA stop recommending the attenuated vaccine there will be less market for it, and the manufacturers might find it less profitable / stop producing it at all, as a result!

ok. at its source then it can be dealt with. but, when its developed in someone it can't be killed off as such, it's down to someones immune system (perhaps with a boost) to suppress it (but not actually kill it)?

i don't understand your second para atm, will have a look.

 

i don't understand your second para atm, will have a look.

I’ll paraphrase.

 

'...In the UK the nasal flu spray has worked well in young people since it was introduced in 2013. It was used for many years in the US and has a good safety profile. Research from 2016 showed that the nasal flu vaccine was no longer working well in children in the US, and for this reason the vaccine is no longer recommended for use in the US. However, research in the UK shows the opposite...'

http://vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/nasal-flu-vaccine

It is the same nasal vaccine in the US and U.K.

It is an attenuated live strain .... it gives you a mild ‘flu that gives you immunity.

(In the same way that the first polio vaccine (jab) was an inactivated vaccine, but the later Sabin vaccine was an attenuated live vaccine (taken orally, hence the ‘sugar lump’, which caused a minor infection in the gut, causing people to make immunity ....)

So why does it work less well in the US?.

Because the children in the US have already had a dose of the inactivated vaccine, so already have some immunity, so they “fight off” the vaccine strain before it can provoke as good a response as it does in the U.K., where children don’t get the inactivated vaccine (jab) before they get the nasal (attenuated, live) vaccine

Really interesting.

Anecdotal evidence. Younger people (under 40) at work getting flu and oldies (over 40) not getting it, when sat in close proximity.

Think Ford may have a point re immune system build when younger helping older generations, but younger people perhaps not had same experience.

bazza, you shld get in touch with them help them out.

they say in that link that '...It is not known why there is such a big difference between the US research and the UK and Finnish research, but the UK will continue to monitor this...'

bazza, you shld get in touch with them help them out.

they say in that link that '...It is not known why there is such a big difference between the US research and the UK and Finnish research, but the UK will continue to monitor this...'

I’m only going on a report I’ve read (of comments by Prof. Maria Zambon, when she was asked about this at a conference).

I guess they could always ask her .....

Yet again, folks, remember “there are lies, damned lies, and statistics”.

“Torture your data enough, and it’ll tell you what you want to hear”.

The experts are still discussing if they need to change from the current "2 different vaccines" approach to "3 different vaccines".

The inactivated vaccine (still used for adults in the UK) has been found not to give a good immune response in children, so they are given an attenuated vaccine instead (if it can be safely used ; if immunocompromised they would get the inactivated vaccine instead).

 

The upcoming possible change is because the inactivated vaccine has been found to give a poor response for the current strains in the over-65, the discussion being if they move to a (still inactivated) vaccine that also contains an adjuvant to boost immune response, for the over 65's.

You heard it here first, folks.

Now confirmed.

NHS to use new type of flu jab next winter

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-42964393

We ordered ours just before Christmas - hundreds of doses for the over 65’s of the new adjuvanted ‘fluad’ vaccine and the quadrivalent one for our u65 chronically ill patients and of course the live attenuated nasal spray for the nippers. It’s almost a military operation that’s planned out 10 months before it happens.

We ordered ours just before Christmas - hundreds of doses for the over 65’s of the new adjuvanted ‘fluad’ vaccine and the quadrivalent one for our u65 chronically ill patients and of course the live attenuated nasal spray for the nippers. It’s almost a military operation that’s planned out 10 months before it happens.

Sounds a bit like Christmas.

Sounds a bit like Christmas.

It happens predictably every year?

The Press make a fuss about it, as on a ‘slow news day’ they have a filler piece saying it is going to be the best / worst in years?

So, yes, sounds exactly like Xmas .......

It’s also extremely expensive, stressful and a massive anti-climax so yes, exactly like Christmas

Must confess I am one of those in the chronically ill category but I refuse offers of the flu jab as they do make me very ill - from past experiences.