Marc Gander - The Consumer Survival Handbook


A 220 page introduction to all things consumer related by our own BankFodder.

Includes energy companies, mobile phone providers, retailers, banks, insurance companies,debt collection agencies, reclaim companies, secondhand car sellers, cowboy garages, cowboy builders and all the rest who put their own profits before you.

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Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

£19.99 + £1.50 (P&P)


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  1. #1
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    Default UKPC windscreen PCN - Parked in Roadway Stevenage Leisure Park -

    Hi Guys.
    So another week, another ticket.

    I was driving the Mrs car, parked in Stevenage Leisure park on Saturday 22/10/2017.
    I visited the Cineworld cinema for a few hours with her disabled brother.

    The disabled bays where full so i parked on the side, out of the way but not on marked areas (Yellow hatches / double yellows etc).

    I do park in the same spot when i come alone sometimes.
    I parked the car as the parking guy watched, but he didn't say anything.
    On returning I found a ticket on the windscreen from a company called UKPC.

    Reason stated was: Parked in a roadway.

    What to do?
    p.s. if you need photographic evidence I have downloaded it from UKPC website (even though they try to not let you!)


  2. #2
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    Default Re: UKPC windscreen PCN - Parked in Roadway Stevenage Leisure Park -

    please complete this:
    https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.u...Parking-Ticket

    await the NTK before you do anything other than going to get photos of the entrance
    its signs
    all the signs on the park
    where they are

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  3. #3
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    Default Re: UKPC windscreen PCN - Parked in Roadway Stevenage Leisure Park -

    First of all,
    DO NOT APPEAL THE NTD slapped on the car,
    wait for the NTK and then see if the service of that is POFA compliant.

    Secondly,
    I bet that there is no such breach of contract as "parked on roadway" in the list of do's and donts on the signage
    you cant be invoiced for a breach of a condition that does not exist.

    The signs may have wording about parking in a marked bay but often that comes with pictures of cars parked across the demarkation lines into another bay, not on a road so wouldnt be applicable.

    Also the siting of the signs relative to where you were parked is relevant as at the famous Brockholes car park hundreds of people got tickets for not parking in a car park because the anpr cameras covered a lane that wasnt part of the land question but as normal the parking co took a number of people to court and lost the defended claims an got booted out for incompetence by the landowner.

    So details of the signs there, especially where they are sited relative to the entrance to the land and where you parked


  4. #4
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    Default Re: UKPC windscreen PCN - Parked in Roadway Stevenage Leisure Park -

    Here is the location
    NOTE:
    The other areas you cannot parked are marked with hashes / double yellows.
    The vehicle is approximately to scale.
    The vehicle does not cause instruction to any vehicles
    There is no through path next to the vehicle
    The area no longer has shrubbery (graveled over)

    Quote Originally Posted by dx100uk View Post
    please complete this:
    https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.u...Parking-Ticket

    await the NTK before you do anything other than going to get photos of the entrance
    its signs
    all the signs on the park
    where they are
    Thanks Dx

    Answered:
    1 The date of infringement[s]? 21/10/2017

    2 Have you yet appealed to the parking company yet? [Y/N?] No

    if you have then please post up whatever you sent and how you sent it and the date you sent it,
    suitably redacted. [as a PDFicon- follow the uploadicon<<clickme guide] N/A

    has there been a response?
    please post it up as well, suitably redacted. [as a PDFicon- follow the upload guide]

    If you haven't appealed yet - ,.........

    have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK) [must be received by you between 29-56 days]
    what date is on it
    Did the NTK provide photographic evidence? No NTK (Just the screen ticket) - See attached for photo evidence taken from the companies website

    3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) [Y/N?] - Will Update if it arrives

    4 If you appealed after receiving the NTK,
    did the parking company give you any information regarding the further appeals process?
    [it is well known that parking companies will reject any appeal whatever the circumstances]

    5 Who is the parking company? UKPC - UK Parking Control Ltd

    6. where exactly [Carpark name and town] did you park? Stevenage Leisure Centre

    The only thing i am worried about is the "14 day" period. Although the ticket is totally illegible of the "discounted" rate - I read it as 00.00 hahaha


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    Default Re: UKPC windscreen PCN - Parked in Roadway Stevenage Leisure Park -

    As dx stated, do nothing until the NTK arrives and then post a redacted image of it here.

    Do not reply to it until you’ve been advised...


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    Default Re: UKPC windscreen PCN - Parked in Roadway Stevenage Leisure Park -

    Cool - Watch this space!


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    Default Re: UKPC windscreen PCN - Parked in Roadway Stevenage Leisure Park -

    we cant read the temrs on their picture of the sign and that doesnt indicate where the sign was o not much use as evidence for them anyway. Generally the wording is so poor as to be incomprehensible as an offer of a contract


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    Default Re: UKPC windscreen PCN - Parked in Roadway Stevenage Leisure Park -

    I haven't been back in the area since the event.
    I wont be back there for another few weeks.
    Shall i see if i can get someone to get me photos of the signage?


  9. #9
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    Default Re: UKPC windscreen PCN - Parked in Roadway Stevenage Leisure Park -

    If you can get photos yes, if not does it appear on Google street view?

    You do nothing until you get the NTK anyway.


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    Default Re: UKPC windscreen PCN - Parked in Roadway Stevenage Leisure Park -

    there is no hurry for this, they cant send out anything for a month and then you have another month to consider paying or dobbing in the driver so nearly 2 months to get the required pictures of the signs and where you were parked.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: UKPC windscreen PCN - Parked in Roadway Stevenage Leisure Park -

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer67 View Post
    If you can get photos yes, if not does it appear on Google street view?

    You do nothing until you get the NTK anyway.
    I dont think there is Streetview on it, i should be there next week so will take proper photos.

    Quote Originally Posted by ericsbrother View Post
    there is no hurry for this, they cant send out anything for a month and then you have another month to consider paying or dobbing in the driver so nearly 2 months to get the required pictures of the signs and where you were parked.
    Does this affect the whole pay within 14 days for discounted rate thing?


  12. #12
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    Default Re: UKPC windscreen PCN - Parked in Roadway Stevenage Leisure Park -

    forget their stupid dates..

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  13. #13
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    Default Re: UKPC windscreen PCN - Parked in Roadway Stevenage Leisure Park -

    Quote Originally Posted by dx100uk View Post
    forget their stupid dates..
    Cool, will do thanks.


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    Default Re: UKPC windscreen PCN - Parked in Roadway Stevenage Leisure Park -

    if you are going to pay within the discounted period why bother asking us for advice? we are here to help fight these unwarranted charges by pointing out why they are unwarranted. Discount period? if you arent pating it doesnt exist.


  15. #15
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    Default Re: UKPC windscreen PCN - Parked in Roadway Stevenage Leisure Park -

    Hi
    As the leisure/retail park is all on private land and with private roads, Google Streetview would not be able to drive around the site so no signs will be visible.

    There is good and bad news with UKPC. They are members of the BPA who offer an appeals service which is independant (as opposed to the IPC and IAS who are biased towards the companies) although in recent times they have been a bit more belligerent.
    The bad news is that unlike many other companies, the do take court action but compared to the amount of tickets issued to the amount of court cases taken, the figure is very low.

    On a personal note, I would be angry with UKPC if one of their 'wardens' saw me park and didn't alert me to the risk of doing so. He saw you park. He could have spoken to you and advised that you should move. Why didn't he do so?
    Commission pure and simple.

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  16. #16
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    Default Re: UKPC windscreen PCN - Parked in Roadway Stevenage Leisure Park -

    Hi Guys.

    So we have received the notice to keeper dated 21/11/2017.


    Thanks


  17. #17
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    Default Re: UKPC windscreen PCN - Parked in Roadway Stevenage Leisure Park -

    they mention the POFA but fail to send out an NTK that is compliant with it.
    What muppets.

    they say that it is ther clients land,
    well that means they arent collecting money on their own behalf and as they dont mention they are the creditor you have no reason to pay them.

    Now as they say the breach is parking on the roadway
    then talk about signs in the car park

    does this mean you drove through the car park to get to where your vehicle was photographed?
    If not then how can you have considered a contractual offer for a differnt place?

    That is 4 so far things that damage their claim,
    I bet tht when you get pictures of the landad its signage there will be others,

    not including what is called "mitigating their losses" by gtting their warden to get you to park properly and explaining the contract as the driver clealry didnt see it.

    For the moment dont bother appealing

    get some photos of
    where your car was,
    the entrance to the private land from the public highway
    the signage at the car park

    noting how far they are from where your car was
    what lighting is there enabling you to read them from a distance at night.

    Also note we refer to people in the third person

    the driver instead of I/my wife/son etc
    then the keeper when it comes to addressing points raised in the NTK


  18. #18
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    Default Re: UKPC windscreen PCN - Parked in Roadway Stevenage Leisure Park -

    Hi Guys,

    Finally managed to get to Stevenage and take the pics. I think i have everything we need.

    So points to note:

    1. The white car with redacted number plate (To make sure they don't get a ticket too) - It is where my car was parked.

    2. I am 5'10 and i found i had to stand really close to the sign and look quite high up to read the sign.

    3. There are no markings in that location, no double yellows, no hatches, no road markings.

    Thanks


  19. #19
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    Default Re: UKPC windscreen PCN - Parked in Roadway Stevenage Leisure Park -

    Confused or what! The signs say No Unauthorised Parking but then go on to say terms of parking apply at all times. Which is which? You are either authorised or not authorised. The signs are confusing.

    As you didn't follow the terms of parking then you must be unauthorised therefore a trespasser and only the landowner can take action.

    That's my take on it. Let others have their say as well

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  20. #20
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    Default Re: UKPC windscreen PCN - Parked in Roadway Stevenage Leisure Park -

    agree with silverfox,
    no unauthorised parking means a prohibition and thus not an offer of a contract so the rest of the sign is meaningless.

    If you do accept the sign's other terms then the phrase makes it confusing because of both the dichotomy and also who authorisies parking when you park in the bays for example and thus how is a contract formed?

    Is this a separate issue or can you be unauthorised to park there if the assumption is that somehow you are authorisd to park somewhre else.

    The pictures showing no roadway parking have white lines on the kerb so where you parked isnt a roadway according to the sign.
    Likelwise it isnt a marked bay so we are back to the unauthorised parking bit.

    Now their sign also has a no leaving site indicator.
    As this isnt lawful then it is an unfair term under the consumer contracts regs and you are entitled to reject the whole contract (or accept it if you wish)
    Again, the no unauthorised parking wording makes this haredr for the parking co so say you have decided to accept the Unfair terms because they arent offering you anything to start off with.

    Likewise their thrat to charge you 60 for passing it on to a debt collector.
    Not allowed in law, the main reason they are allowed to demand 100 is to cover such costs, the POFA and contract law doesnr allow this part form under certain conditions that will never be met so the charge becomes an unlawful penalty as it is clearly there to deter.

    The signage must be of a certain height above the ground so they can be seen from a distance.
    Why didnt you take a stepladder with you one could ask.

    Really though a big sign at the gate saying what parking conditions apply would make this point a secondary issue but they dont have that so you can argue that the signs are inadequate due to their positioning.

    I note there is a small sign near to the entrance that offers different terms to the signs you have detailed, that means they arent necessarily an offer of a contract anyway as you appear to ahve a choice of terms ( more confusing signage arguments there) or it could be considered an "invitation to treat" and thsu when you read the actual contract you dont have to accept it.

    so, all in all a lot wrong with this but dont forget, the majority of peopel will pay up becasue they dont know any better.

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