I do not really want to go into depth about how things happened but will try my best.

A person was arrested for Criminal Damage sometime ago.

The complainant complained that there was damage to the tune of £xx000.00 .

Various statements were taken against the person who was accused.

It now turns out The statements made to police state that the complainant were on their own and there was no one else with them.

However the civil side of the claim claims that there were two other people who interacted in various ways.

However the police have no information regarding this.

Also a witness claims they have never had any dealings with the complainant but in their civil claim the complainant has produced a invoice from this other witness showing lots of work done by them.

I do not really want to identify this but a solicitor is involved .

How does the defendant bring this to the courts attention or polices attention ?

Is the defendant legally represented?. If so, they should bring this to the attention of their legal team, as being relevant to their defence (it bringing into doubt the credibility of prosecution witnesses).

Thanks bazzaS. This has been brought to the notice of the defendants team. How serious would this be in terms of crown court situation ?

Thanks bazzaS. This has been brought to the notice of the defendants team. How serious would this be in terms of crown court situation ?

You have not provided enough info. Criminal and civil cases will be totally separate. If someone has provided inaccurate info to a court, evidenced by a Police report, then enter the Police report into evidence to show the inaccuracy. Then questions can be asked, seeking clarity and if necessary these witnesses can be asked to attend the court.

I do not really want to go into depth about how things happened but will try my best.

 

A person was arrested for Criminal Damage sometime ago.

The complainant complained that there was damage to the tune of £xx000.00 .

 

Various statements were taken against the person who was accused.

It now turns out The statements made to police state that the complainant were on their own and there was no one else with them.

 

However the civil side of the claim claims that there were two other people who interacted in various ways.

However the police have no information regarding this.

 

Also a witness claims they have never had any dealings with the complainant but in their civil claim the complainant has produced a invoice from this other witness showing lots of work done by them.

 

I do not really want to identify this but a solicitor is involved .

How does the defendant bring this to the courts attention or polices attention ?

How do you know the police never had no information on the other two? they may well had but not enough to arrest and charge.

Thanks bazzaS. This has been brought to the notice of the defendants team. How serious would this be in terms of crown court situation ?

Serious for whom?

How do you know the police never had no information on the other two? they may well had but not enough to arrest and charge.

The evidence is in the civil claim bunch of papers.

One claims they never worked with the other.

However they have provided a receipt under a company name

but the company is at the same address that they live at.

Police were only given a amount not a name or invoice.

Serious for whom?

People who have given incorrect statements to the police ?

This has been brought to the notice of the defendants team. How serious would this be in terms of crown court situation ?

Serious for whom?

People who have given incorrect statements to the police ?

If it is you or a friend who is the defendant in the criminal damage case, let the defendant’s legal team deal with it.

What do you care how serious it is for the people who gave the misleading statement(s)? Focus on the defence to the allegation first and foremost.

Let the miscreants get on with it. Once the proceedings for criminal damage are disposed with you can summarise the actions of the miscreants, and at that stage an assessment of the seriousness could be made.

It get's better, "What do you care how serious it is for the people who gave misleading statement/s, its perverting the course of justice and say that tomorrow morning when all them innocent people waking up in jail because of misleading statements or fabrication of bxll ****-e to commit someone innocent to jail, i'm sure they will be in full agreement with you Barry, not.

Don't rely on your defence, instruct and demand who is representing you to get the evidence and once they get that evidence instruct them to make an immediate application to the Courts to have the case immediately dismissed as there is clear evidence, be it from a Civil court, makes no difference that you are being subjected to perjury, in otherwords a load of lies.

Also make the point that if charges or proceedings are not immediately withdrawn, you will be clsaiming damages from both the police and CPS for what is known as a malicious prosecution, they will move, hope this helps, it should. SF

You misunderstand, (again! So one wonders if this is from either through deliberate ignorance or plain lack of clue).

The defendant focuses on getting the charges withdrawn, or a not guilty verdict if the prosecution continues to court.

The defence team may get the charges dropped or can question the witnesses under oath and highlight the discrepancies.

The defendant’s primary goal should be avoiding going to Court or avoiding a guilty verdict.

Once that has been achieved the groundwork for the secondary goal (prosecution of miscreants for perjury or conspiracy to pervert the course of justice) has been laid and can go ahead.

The defendant’s legal team are still those best placed to achieve this.

Please reassure everyone on here that you are not and never likely to be a defence solicitor/barrister??

You would have more clients serving sentences as for allowing to be openly framed giving the quite comical advice that you gave the OP in respect of false statements.

Please reassure everyone on here that you are not and never likely to be a defence solicitor/barrister??

 

You would have more clients serving sentences as for allowing to be openly framed giving the quite comical advice that you gave the OP in respect of false statements.

Where and why is the advice "comical"?

You (and your "I'm getting a judicial review" from your other thread) are all puff and bluster. When push comes to shove, you can't back up your assertions.

You shouldn't let your unwarranted suspicions of every solicitor colour your response to other people's criiminal cases.

Are you really suggesting the defendant should circumvent their defence team / legal advisors?. (Who are the people with the knowledge and experience to best make use of the information that casts doubt on the prosecution witnesses....)

Don't rely on your defence, instruct and demand who is representing you

Ohh, that'll be the defence team I've been suggesting, then....... "don't rely on your defence" makes about as much sense as the rest of your rants.

So, "put up" or "give up":

be clear on who you are saying should act, the defendant's legal team (as I've advised), or who else?

Be clear on WHY my advice is "comical" (and bear in mind, 'repetition isn't clarification'.... add some substance to your assertion)

Be clear, because at the moment you just appear confused as to what / who you are meaning .......

Back on track you told OP to ignore what?

the evidence that would prove his innocence.

Yes lets all see someone else become another victim of a miscarriage of justice, or at least wait to use the evidence that BazzaS feels is irrelevant when it comes to appear the conviction, brilliant advice.

letsmakeamark, evidence is important, but people or should I say others will not only play that down when it comes to getting it, they know every little trick in the book as a means of denying you your evidence.

Someone or a poster advising someone not to make that evidence aware and stating leave it to the defence, don't, that's where a lot of people go wrong, unduly influenced. Just some advice mate.

Back on track you told OP to ignore what? the evidence that would prove his innocence.

Where did I do that then?

I’m not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse, are deluded, or are just looking for an argument.

Either way, it makes it easy for the OP to decide whose advice they favour.

I was asking regarding someone elses case.

I was asking regarding someone elses case.

Indeed, hence:

If it is you or a friend who is the defendant in the criminal damage case, let the defendant’s legal team deal with it.

Indeed, hence:

Thanks Bazza

What has happened is that the defendant pleaded guilty earlier on the advice of counsel. At the final hearing for sentencing the defendant was told that as he had pleaded guilty the prosecution will not be interested in what he has to say. Therefore the defence did not notify the prosecution of what has happened. It has resulted in the defendant lodging an appeal themselves against this.

It is very hard to appeal against verdict for a guilty plea.

There can be an appeal against sentence.

If the accused wanted the evidence tested, why did they plead guilty??

They were advised by counsel that everything in the witness statements and evidence points towards their guilt. They only received their case file the afternoon before the ptph. They didnt have a chance to thoroughly read it. they did later on and discovered the things that were a miss and passed it on to their defence.

It would be usual when giving a guilty plea to be warned that it is:

a) an acceptance of guilt, and

b) irreversible once given.

Counsel usually only offers advice, not an obligation to do as they advise.

If the defendant felt they had insufficient time to read through the prosecution case they could (and should!) have discussed this with counsel, who could have aimed for:

a) an adjournment if the prosecution case was provided late, or

b) a ‘not guilty’ plea with an option for re-arraignment later for a change of plea (some of the credit for a guilty plea might then be lost, but if the reason was clear from the late presentation of prosecution case, not much would be lost)

Again, why did the defendant only get the prosecution case the day before the ptph?

Unless there are good reasons, 7 days minimum would be expected (more if on bail!).

If there were good reasons, the court wouldn’t usually adjourn, but a not guilty plea with a view to re-arraignment would be usual.....

From p.8 of : https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/criminal/docs/october-2015/cm007-eng.pdf

The usefulness of the PTPH depends on:

 The lodging no less than seven days prior to the PTPH of a

draft indictment; and

 service prior to the hearing of the principal parts of the

prosecution case then available. The summary required will, in police cases, usually be the MG5. The prosecution material is to be served:

 If the defendant is on bail – by the sending hearing in the Magistrates’ Court;

 If the defendant is in custody – no less than seven days before the PTPH.

Details of what is expected to be served are set out in the CrimPD 3A.12 and 3A.20 and a breakdown appears in the form so that compliance can be monitored.

There may be good reasons why the prosecution has not served all the materials listed prior to the PTPH but the court will usually expect to proceed with the hearing rather than adjourn it.

Got it wrong. at the ptph at the magistrates the defendant was handed witness statements before the hearing and the statements were taken back after the hearing where the defendant pleaded not guilty. Then the following hearing at the crown court the defendant recieved the mg5 the afternoon before the hearing and did not have a chance to read it as it was via email. However at the hearing he was told by counsel that all the staements etc point to them being guilty. He pleaded guilty and when he had a proper read he highlighted the below mentioned. However counsel nor his solicitor notified the prosecution as he had entered a guilty plea. when he told his solicitor he wanted to withdraw it he was told no.

Hi

Have you actually made a Formal Complaint to the solicitors about there actions?

Are the Solicitors Regulated by Solicitors Regulation Authority (SRA). (if the have a website check it)

SRA: https://www.sra.org.uk/home/home.page

SRA Check a solicitor's record: http://www.sra.org.uk/consumers/solicitor-check.page

SRA Handbook: https://www.sra.org.uk/solicitors/handbook/code/content.page

Got it wrong.

 

.........

 

However counsel nor his solicitor notified the prosecution as he had entered a guilty plea. when he told his solicitor he wanted to withdraw it he was told no.

That would be correct if he told them that after sentencing.

If prior to sentencing:

Again, once a guilt plea has been entered, it is almost impossible to “withdraw” it.

It can be done (up until the point where sentence is passed), but the “bar is set high”, and I’ve seen judges warn the defendant (as I previously mentioned) before accepting a guilty plea.

Did the solicitor say “No, it can’t be done” or “it is very unlikely withdrawal of the plea will be accepted”. When (in relation to sentencing) was the duscussion?