My on-going battle with Dart Charge continues as once again

I made the crossing on a Sunday

when I got back the local Paypoint shop was closed.

I tried 3 others in town and the surrounding area only to be told they had got rid of the PayPoint machines or they weren't working.

Subsequently I forgot all about it until the Tuesday when I called Dart charge and told them I'd forgot and they said 'tough, you'll get fined now even if you pay'.

I appealed on line after calling them today to ask if I could pay and avoid the fine

(I knew it was hopeless but others tell me this has worked for them),

only to be told there's no other way to do it,

which is wrong as you can appeal by post.

I can't understand how it is legal for a private company (Le Crossing) to issue fines,

I thought only court, plod and LA's could do that?

For what it's worth my appeal is below,

I know it will get laughed at by Dart Charge but I'm making them work for their highway robbery:

Once again I had to use the crossing on a Sunday and on returning I found that all the local pay points were either not working or closed, I tried 4 shops.

Your call centre was down on the Sunday so I couldn't make payment until the next day.

I work for the NHS so I am extremely busy and I am not allowed to leave the medical area while I'm at work and our phones can't dial your number.

When I remembered I hadn't paid, I called your call centre on Tuesday to make a payment and was advised that I would still be fined.

I believe there should be a longer period to make a payment and there should be easier ways to pay, as I do not have access to a computer (I'm in the library now) and if paypoints are not working and your call centre is down, how can I pay the charge?

Also why does each crossing incur a separate fine?

A journey consists of outbound and inbound, that's one journey so it should be one fine per day.

I also question the legality of a private company imposing fines on the general public, I'm sure that only Local Authorities, Police and Courts can issue fines, what right does Le Crossing Company Limited (Limited means it is a private company) have to issue fines?

It is a penalty charge notice not a fine and you'll get bailiffs soon if you don't sort it

What is to stop you appealing by post ?.

Hmm... I think you're missing the point of my post,

I have 'sorted it' as I've appealed with the rather pointless appeal above to make them work for their money, when that gets rejected I'll cough up, my mistake and it hits me in the pocket because I'm a bad person for having a car and needing to cross the river to take my stepson to Uni which I'm paying for as we don't qualify for any type of grant as we are just over the threshold income wise.

Sometimes a rant helps the bad taste go away.

Overall the point I was making for the sake of discussion was that 'Le Crossing' is a limited company and therefore a private entity - so how can a private company enforce a fine?

What is to stop you appealing by post ?.

Nothing and I could have, but that's not what the Dart Charge Call Centre Customer Services told me - my point is that the organiastion is in disarry and it is a rip off charge as all other crossings are paid for by the Government.

The original twin tunnel Dartford Crossing was owned by the Port of London Authority who promised they would stop charging a toll when the crossing was paid for, then it got sold to a private company (probably illegally but what government has any morals) and it is now a money making exercise with the most difficult payment system for a toll known to man.

I know an eighty year old man who has no idea what a computer is and quiite frankly why should he have to learn now? Also do you think he can afford a PC, an internet subscription and software to be able to pay this charge?

No, he needs to rely on a local pay point which there are now none of, or the Dart Charge Call Centre which was broken down at the time.

Any other private company managed in this manner would be bankrupt in months, it's funny how a French company own the crossing, yet French motorists would not tolerate such a charge.

At least Dick Turpin wore a mask when he committed highway robbery.

I can sympathise with the points you make up to a point, but none of those arguments have any legal standing. It is the same with the London Congestion Charge - there are ways and means of avoiding the penalties and whilst it may be inconvenient when some of them are unavailable, that doesn't render any resulting penalty unlawful. Why not set up a Dart account to avoid having to pay 'per journey'?

I too agree that the charges were meant to have been creased when the crossing was paid for, but you and I can't do anything about the fact that they are still there. Same with the power to issue and enforce penalties - they have been given the proper authority to do so, so we are stuck with it

Nothing and I could have, but that's not what the Dart Charge Call Centre Customer Services told me - my point is that the organiastion is in disarry and it is a rip off charge as all other crossings are paid for by the Government.

 

The original twin tunnel Dartford Crossing was owned by the Port of London Authority who promised they would stop charging a toll when the crossing was paid for, then it got sold to a private company (probably illegally but what government has any morals) and it is now a money making exercise with the most difficult payment system for a toll known to man.

 

I know an eighty year old man who has no idea what a computer is and quiite frankly why should he have to learn now? Also do you think he can afford a PC, an internet subscription and software to be able to pay this charge?

 

No, he needs to rely on a local pay point which there are now none of, or the Dart Charge Call Centre which was broken down at the time.

 

Any other private company managed in this manner would be bankrupt in months, it's funny how a French company own the crossing, yet French motorists would not tolerate such a charge.

 

At least Dick Turpin wore a mask when he committed highway robbery.

I'm glad I asked the question for it has bought the best out of you and hey I'm on your side.

I can sympathise with the points you make up to a point, but none of those arguments have any legal standing. It is the same with the London Congestion Charge - there are ways and means of avoiding the penalties and whilst it may be inconvenient when some of them are unavailable, that doesn't render any resulting penalty unlawful. Why not set up a Dart account to avoid having to pay 'per journey'?

 

I too agree that the charges were meant to have been creased when the crossing was paid for, but you and I can't do anything about the fact that they are still there. Same with the power to issue and enforce penalties - they have been given the proper authority to do so, so we are stuck with it

Laws are meant to be broken if they are so obviously wrong.

I'm sure that only Local Authorities, Police and Courts can issue fines,…

You are, strictly speaking, incorrect. Only courts can issue fines. Charges levied by other authorities and private concerns are properly “Penalty Charges”.

I understand your frustration but life is how it is not how we’d like it to be.

None of your arguments hold any water legally (though morally I agree with many of them).

With that in mind and since you obviously lead a busy life why don’t you simply open a DartCharge account?

Stick a tenner on and you get the crossing price reduced by a third and no hassle with remembering (or forgetting) to pay it.

You can even arrange an auto top-up for when your credit gets low.

It would take you far less time than you’ve spent explaining your plight here.

I only use the crossing two or three times a year but I have an account because it makes life easy.

Yes it makes life easy for “them” too but life’s a bit too short to pick fights with organisations like this who will be only too pleased to execute their expensive enforcement processes until the cows come home.

Interesting point, I did have a Dart Charge account when they first took away the toll booths. After several double dips by Dart charge where I was charged 4 times for a single return journey I cancelled the account.

This happened to some of my friends as well, so I wasn't an isolated case.

Now I am very careful about who I give any ability to debit my bank account to.

Definitely not Dart Charge, TFL or Capita (TVL).

Cannot comment on that only to say that it has never happened to me or anybody I know.

Having said that, it must surely be easier to argue that you did not make a crossing in the same direction within a short period of time than it is to argue that you have a reasonable excuse for neglecting to pay the charge on time.

 

Overall the point I was making for the sake of discussion was that 'Le Crossing' is a limited company and therefore a private entity - so how can a private company enforce a fine?

The simple answer is that they (Highways England) cannot enforce a fine.

What happens is that if the Dart Charge remains unpaid, Highways England will register the debt with the court (in this case, the Traffic Enforcement Centre....which forms part of Northampton County Bulk Centre). The fee to register (the debt) is £8 and that fee will be added to the debt.

Once the debt is registered, Highways England can request permission from the court for a warrant to be issued. The warrant will be passed to one of three enforcement companies under contract to Highways England.....either JBW Judicial Services Ltd, Equita Ltd or Marston Holdings.

For the avoidance of doubt....the debt is NOT a fine.....it is a penalty.

PS: Although the debt is registered with the court....it does not affect the individuals credit file. There is no judgment.

My Experience of the DART charge is different and I think I should defend them. Earlier on in the year i crossed south, did some work and went back north. I completely forgot to pay, both way's. Several days later i remembered, went onto the website and paid for both ways. I thought that was it.

However a few weeks went by and i got two letters, the first one said if i paid by phone i would not get a charge as this was the first time this has happened. The second letter said i'h had my chance and it was £70.

I rang DART and the guy couldn't have been more helpful. I paid the two outstanding crossings (Now i was two in credit) and he cancelled the charges. His advice was to use my two credits, which i did and set up a PAYG account.

Now i don't worry at all.

H

Slightly off topic but interesting nonetheless:

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?481918-Mersey-Gateway-due-to-open...Toll-fee-must-be-paid-to-Merseyflow-to-avoid-a-Penalty-Charge-Notice

It doesn't surprise me that they want to use the same tricky payment method as it's clearly been profitable for them at Dartford.

They might be the operator but the owner is Le Crossing.

I think the Dartcharge bods can be helpful when they are poked into action because it saves having to admit it all goes wrong so often. There is a chap by the name of Tim in charge of the dept that can sort out the mess, his full name, and job title etc are on aonther dartcharge thread somewhere.

Update: unsurprisingly I got the standard appeal rejection letter and a further 14 days to pay the original penalty amount of £35 plus the crossing charge for each crossing.

So that's £75 they've got [removed]

I hope they choke on it, [removed]

This was always going to end in tears:

"I made the crossing on a Sunday

when I got back the local Paypoint shop was closed.

Subsequently I forgot all about it until the Tuesday"

Sensible suggestions to avoid a repetition have fallen on deaf ears.

This was always going to end in tears:

 

 

 

Sensible suggestions to avoid a repetition have fallen on deaf ears.

To suggest there was repetition is wrong, just the same event and the outcome was always inevitable.

I raised an appeal so they at least had to put some effort in to get their ill gotten gains.

Perhaps you need an oxygen mask on your high horse to help clear your head.

I really don't understand why Hammy1962 felt it nessecary to report my post as racist, seems to be very petty as was removing the starred out swear word - it was starred out for God's sake, are you all that easily offended?

Seems like one rule for some and not others on here, as I have seen far worse posts allowed and commented on.

Perhaps you need an oxygen mask on your high horse to help clear your head.

The advantage of being on a high horse is that you can see over most of those around you. If you reckon seventy-five quid is good value to see the DART staff "put some effort in" (i.e. send you a couple of standard letters) then good luck to you. Personally I can think of better things to spend my hard-earned on. Further than that, I can also see that these are matters from which you will never emerge victorious, hence my earlier suggestions of ways to avoid a recurrence.

I assume that it wasnt a first 'offence'. I had a letter through on my first offence (which occurred as i went a different route to see family). I was given the option of paying asap and avoiding a fine for a first time infringement of the rules. It sure makes you think again when you next go that way I find.

How did you get on in the end?

I assume that it wasnt a first 'offence'

My on-going battle with Dart Charge continues as once again.

The rules for payment are quite straightforward and there is a variety of facilities for drivers to make their payment. Expecting to be given an extension to make payment and complaining of harsh treatment when the request is refused is unreasonable. Further than that, a multitude of (mostly groundless) reasons why each of the various options for payment cannot be employed are put forward. There is almost bound to be a repetition when the same problem will arise.

Like it or not drivers have a responsibility to comply with the crossing payment scheme and face a well-publicised penalty should they default.

. I assume likewise. The opening line of the OP began

 

The rules for payment are quite straightforward and there is a variety of facilities for drivers to make their payment. Expecting to be given an extension to make payment and complaining of harsh treatment when the request is refused is unreasonable. Further than that, a multitude of (mostly groundless) reasons why each of the various options for payment cannot be employed are put forward. There is almost bound to be a repetition when the same problem will arise.

 

Like it or not drivers have a responsibility to comply with the crossing payment scheme and face a well-publicised penalty should they default.

Hi everyone I'm new to the forum.

first of all we need to establish the basics surrounding the ins and outs of this stealth dart charge penalty and its only with caution that you do so.

First of all I'm gonna start with 'Defence' In the beginning it was said that he went to look for a pay point and tried to phone in in an 'Attempt' to make payment for the crossing.

Therefore he has a right to defend that.

If there are problems getting through to making payment like that then that is not his problem and therefore the penalty should be rightly waived.

One basic fundamental right is that you are 'Innocent' until proven guilty. NOT the other way round, it doesn't matter who they are, no authority in the land has the legality to do so without a course of court action first.

This should be interesting.

H