. I assume likewise. The opening line of the OP began

 

The rules for payment are quite straightforward and there is a variety of facilities for drivers to make their payment. Expecting to be given an extension to make payment and complaining of harsh treatment when the request is refused is unreasonable. Further than that, a multitude of (mostly groundless) reasons why each of the various options for payment cannot be employed are put forward. There is almost bound to be a repetition when the same problem will arise.

 

Like it or not drivers have a responsibility to comply with the crossing payment scheme and face a well-publicised penalty should they default.

Meaning that he has already complied to make payment by 'Attempting' so therefore for the fine to be valid they would have to prove that he didn't make any attempt, and how are they going to do that - case closed. If you get bailiffs turn up at your door ask to see proof of a warrant with a Judges actual signature, otherwise its has not legal binding and therefore has no power. If they start getting aggressive then call the police, get your phone out and start filming and ask them to step off your property otherwise its trespassing. Hope this all helps you and I hope you didn't pay that fine! (God bless). I'm here to point people in the right direction and to steer them away from these stealth traps or unlawful fines that are daunting our nation and ruining innocent peoples lives, its is a notorious climate out there in the UK for these greed driven authorities to target the innocent driver whilst all we are trying to do is go about our normal lives and I'm here to stop these ******s getting in our way, be it a dart charge fine, hospital car park fine, dvla sorn fine etc, whatever you do Do not pay.

Great, that's all we need, another expert.

H

I made the crossing on a Sunday

when I got back the local Paypoint shop was closed.

 

I tried 3 others in town and the surrounding area only to be told they had got rid of the PayPoint machines or they weren't working.

Not too bad so far

Subsequently I forgot all about it until the Tuesday...

Not such a compelling story to convince an arbiter that every effort had been made to make payment.

One basic fundamental right is that you are 'Innocent' until proven guilty.

This is not a criminal matter and no question of guilt or innocence arises. It is a matter of liability.

…be it a dart charge fine, hospital car park fine, dvla sorn fine etc, whatever you do Do not pay.

Good luck with that. It is quite clear that Homer has an “issue” with the Dart people. I stand by what I said earlier that such an approach as recommended here is almost always likely to end in tears.

 

It is quite clear that Homer has an “issue” with the Dart people. I stand by what I said earlier that such an approach as recommended here is almost always likely to end in tears.

I do wish you wouldn't speak for me and presume that you know what issues I have and with whom.

As I have alreeady explained my issue is with the payment method which is difficult if the trip is unplanned and one does not feel comfortable giving a phone monkey at Dart Charge one's account details - I am one of those people.

The problem with Legal Gee's reasoning is that I could have paid the following day and still been in time, I forgot and therefore the fault was ultimately mine

I actually made my final crossing last week to pick the boy and all his stuff up from Uni (projected a First before you ask) and again tried to pay at a local pay point on my return, only to find the same story, the ones that still exist don't work and most of the shops no longer have them.

I'm off work at the moment recovering from planned surgery so I paid on line the next day, job done.

I have stopped shopping in Bluewater due to the problems with Dart Charge and I have written to Landsec who own the majority share of BW and manage the site and told them why.

I got a nice email in return saying sorry to hear of your issues blah blah blah. Ultimately they don't care but I have principles and won't shop there again until the Dart Charge fiasco is sorted.

I do wish you wouldn't speak for me and presume that you know what issues I have and with whom.

 

As I have alreeady explained my issue is with the payment method which is difficult if the trip is unplanned and one does not feel comfortable giving a phone monkey at Dart Charge one's account details - I am one of those people.

 

 

The problem with Legal Gee's reasoning is that I could have paid the following day and still been in time, I forgot and therefore the fault was ultimately mine

 

 

I actually made my final crossing last week to pick the boy and all his stuff up from Uni (projected a First before you ask) and again tried to pay at a local pay point on my return, only to find the same story, the ones that still exist don't work and most of the shops no longer have them.

 

 

I'm off work at the moment recovering from planned surgery so I paid on line the next day, job done.

 

 

I have stopped shopping in Bluewater due to the problems with Dart Charge and I have written to Landsec who own the majority share of BW and manage the site and told them why.

 

 

I got a nice email in return saying sorry to hear of your issues blah blah blah. Ultimately they don't care but I have principles and won't shop there again until the Dart Charge fiasco is sorted.

It doesn't matter whether you forgot afterwards as that's no longer relevant, you are entitle to defend what you did in the first place which wasn't your fault, so therefore the burden of proof is on them to prove you guilty of a fine by finding that you didn't do what you did, it is down to them to prove that you didn't go to any paypoint outlet and that you didn't make any phonecalls in an attempt to make payment - if they can't prove that - tough! You have the right to remain innocent until proven guilty - no one is above the law!

No they don't care at all, I mean what kind of attitude is that? All they care about and all they are trying to do is bend over as much as possible to make you pay that fine, regardless if you needed to cross that bridge if it was a life death situation or even if you were in an accident as to so you couldn't get home or to a source to pay the crossing fee, all they care about is their money and nothing else, and they'll try every tactic that they can in order to squeeze the money out of you, they couldn't care if you were terminally ill, seriously they are that morbid. The system is rotten! The system is wholly designed to target and to trap you simply because you are a human being and that we all forget from time to time, and so this is what we all need to think about. You have fully covered yourself by saying you did what you did and that's the end of it. Do indeed carry on going to blue water because its not your fault at all if the authorities can't be bothered to sort out their facilities, its down to them. Its not a fine, its a trap, or its an invoice. I wish you a comfortable recovery from your operation as are never pleasant

I do wish you wouldn't speak for me and presume that you know what issues I have and with whom

You opened your question thus:

My on-going battle with Dart Charge continues as once again…

Sorry to have offended you but from that opening I assumed that this was not a one-off incident. More than that, I gathered that none of the alternative methods of payment (other than possibly the most cumbersome - traipsing round the area to find a Pay Point) appeals to you. That is your prerogative. But all that adds up to an “issue” by my definition.

Setting up a Dart Charge account does not involve giving your account details to a “phone monkey” (or anybody else). It is done online and is simple and reliable (certainly more reliable than having to remember to find a Pay Point). It seems you are making life unnecessarily complicated for yourself and have reduced your use of the crossing as a result. I’m not surprised that the management of Bluewater are unsympathetic towards your plight. They seem to have plenty of custom, much of which probably comes from north of the river. I admire your principles but it seems they are impacting on your life somewhat more than necessary. I wish you well.

Great, that's all we need, another expert.

 

H

Oh, so don't you appreciate it? All I'm trying to do is to pull the wool back from over peoples eyes, because people are being targeted by these stealth fines and I'm here to show em what to do and to stop these authorities from taking the law into their own hands. Well for a start you need to change that attitude! The first thing that lets you down in any tense situation is that.

Theses dart charge people are imposing a penalty, so a penalty is saying that you have committed an offence, and in every case you have a right to defend that no matter what. Millions of people are just giving in and paying these fines for which they shouldn't have been doing.

Because if you pay the fine then you are admitting guilt, you are admitting that you are guilty of the said offence, and consequently you'll never get your money back. It is wholly a legalised crime really, and I'm just trying to tell you and every single person who uses that crossing to watch out!

Not too bad so far

 

 

 

Not such a compelling story to convince an arbiter that every effort had been made to make payment.

 

 

 

This is not a criminal matter and no question of guilt or innocence arises. It is a matter of liability.

 

 

 

Good luck with that. It is quite clear that Homer has an “issue” with the Dart people. I stand by what I said earlier that such an approach as recommended here is almost always likely to end in tears.

No its not a criminal matter it doesn't have to be. It is still a fine or a penalty implying that you have committed an offence no matter what law it falls under, it doesn't have to be a criminal one. And so therefore what I'm trying to point out is judging by his actions that he 'tried' to pay the crossing fee but there were problems in the way which were beyond his control - and he has a right to defend that. Think about it

...what I'm trying to point out is judging by his actions that he 'tried' to pay the crossing fee but there were problems in the way which were beyond his control - and he has a right to defend that. Think about it

I have. He has an obligation to pay the bill within a specific time. That's the rules and your contentions do not alter that. Making an unsuccessful attempt does not meet that obligation and there were no problems beyond his control on Monday. He simply forgot. If this went to a County Court he would, bar a major cock-up, have the matter found against him. It's up to him whose advice he takes and there's little more to be said. But I also wish you well in your quest to see justice done in the way you believe it should be. I just hope not too many people take any notice for it will cost them dearly.

No its not a criminal matter it doesn't have to be. It is still a fine or a penalty implying that you have committed an offence no matter what law it falls under, it doesn't have to be a criminal one. And so therefore what I'm trying to point out is judging by his actions that he 'tried' to pay the crossing fee but there were problems in the way which were beyond his control - and he has a right to defend that. Think about it

Millions of other people have issues about this too, this is not a fine - its a trap!

It certainly isn't a fine. Only courts can impose fines. This is a penalty charge. Quite whether it's a trap depends on your definition of such things. I can only say that I use the Dartford Crossing a few times a year and have not, so far, fallen into any traps.

Thread was from 30th September 2017 and simply revived for argument...thread now closed.