My son got a pcn (ANPR) in a supermarket car park .

He was there for 10mins and never got out of the car ,

he didn't think he even needed a ticket (wrongly)

He never acknowledged it and has since moved out and is at university .

We have received a letter before action ,

saying he must reply within 14days or the matter will be taken further.

Apparently there is an appeal process , but it looks like that's to late .

They are now asking for £140 .... what is the best course to take at this late date......... Thanks for any help

Presumably this was a Lidl customer car park or other supermarket, where you have to go into the supermarket to enter your customer receipt details to stop getting a parking ticket ?

Others are better informed. More detail is needed.

See this link. If you scroll down in the linked thread, there are questions regarding a PCN. Copy/paste over to here and answer as best as you can.

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?462118-Have-you-received-a-Parking-Ticket-(2-Viewing)-nbsp

as he hasnt acknowledged anything the parking co will have to rely on the POFA to create a keeper liability.

Many companies get their paperwork wrong so they cant do this

we need to know who the company is and if your son still has all of their letters.

Also,= we will need to see the signage where the event occurred so we can advise you as to whether a contract was offered in the first place.

Again these signs are often so garbled they cannot be an offer of a contract.

please complete this:

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?462118-Have-you-received-a-Parking-Ticket

Date 10 June 2017 . When ticket was issued .

Another letter came sometime latter , I take it this was NTK . sorry I don't know exactly when .

This was returned to sender without being opened because he no longer lives here.

We have now received , from CEL. LETTER BEFORE ACTION Dated 12/09/17 .

Stating £140 must be paid within 14 days or further action will be taken .

he entered the co-op car park to pick a friend up at 16:47 to 17:02 these are the times on the Pcn

.this was most definitely very harsh treatment

.he didn't even know he had to get a ticket ...

Do you know this particular Coop store ?

Does your Sons friend work at the Coop ?

Which parking company is involved in the parking enforcement ?

Trouble with not responding to anything including any court claim that might come,

is that your Son ends up with a CCJ by default because he did not defend.

He should avoid this.

The co-op Evesham . Civil enforcement ltd What do you reckon ?

go back to the co-op

take pictures in daylight

of the entrance approach showing where the sighs are [so that we can check that drivers can see and understand them before entering

the signs around there

clearly so we can read the small text too

and anything else EB asks in post 3

Seems this car park is very well known in Evesham. If you enter, you have to pay minimum of £1 for an hours parking. If you don't pay, then you are likely to get a PCN.

http://www.eveshamjournal.co.uk/news/15157918.Shop_manager_criticises_car_park_managers_for__nightmare__four_years/

In your opinion ..... dya think I should just wrap this up pay them !

Cos it looks like if you take these "No good bums " on you've got to do it the right way .

Unfortunately this was a situation where my son unwittingly found himself in .

Maybe you should be made to pay before you gain entry to car parks...

Because this is a licence to print money for these people .

And now they can do it with the backing of the backing of the corrupt legal system !

It should be there for the PEOPLE not for corporate business . thanks for kind advice

That is your Sons responsibility to decide whether to pay or fight. Rule is don't enter a carpark unless you know the conditions for parking. The signs in the newspaper article are clear, that it is £1 per hour minimum as a pay & display. Your Son was parked in the carpark for 10 minutes waiting to pick up a friend and would have seen the signs. He choose not to pay.

Others on this site are more knowledgeable if your Son wants to fight this, but it is up to him to do this. He might have to complete a defence online to any court claim and then if the claim moves to a hearing provide more defence information. It is whether he is committed enough to challenge this.

CEL dont have a contract with the Co-Op, so they cant enforce anything.

Your problem is your son is ignorant of this fact and CEL rely on this ignorance to make threats and even take people to court as they never challenge CEL right to do so.

As for the sum now being £140,

that is normal for these conmen,

they again add unlawful charges to a contractual sum

and rely on you not knowing they are unlawful under both the POFA and consumer law.

Fighting this is easy,

your son as the keeper sends them a letter stating that he knows they have no copntract with the Co-OP

they have no rights to make a claim

furthermore they have not cretaed a keeper liability

they are chasing the wrong person

lastly the amount claimed also is in breach of the POFA and consumer cotracts law

he wont be paying them a penny and is minded to sue then for breach of the DPA as per VCS v Philip, Liverpool CC dec 2016

get that off pronto and he will undoubtedly hear nothing more

That newspaper article seems to say that the carpark is not owned by the shops but by a different company. Does that make any difference ?

possibly,

if CEL have deal with the landowner rather than any of the tenants.

The Co-op certainly wont have anything to do with CEL after they issued hundreds of tickets to employees and then sued their paymasters at a particular site, causing the coop to boot them off every other site they have sole benefit of..

However, CEL dont do anything right

I would still be sending them a off a letter on the grounds that there is no keeper liability in this matter as they never get their paperwork right.

However it is for the registerd keeper to send the letter as that is who is being chased as they dont know who the driver was and as they use ANPR they havent served notice ot the driver so have to rely on a different process to make a demand legal.

Thanks ,Eric's bro . I understand it is our decision .... But if we send this letter off what ,in your opinion would their response be ? Court .....

Would you send a written letter or email etc . Cheers

you ALWAYS WRITE

make them waste money on postage.

wont make any odds if they do/don't choose court route

its hit and miss

but you've laid the ground rules

and the letter will and can be used in your bundle to crush them and probably get more compo should they lose which they will

dx

So I will write , and send by recorded delivery ? This will be he first time we have communicated at all

no need record why waste money

simple 1st class with free POP at the counter will do. [proof of posting]

So I will write , and send by recorded delivery ? This will be he first time we have communicated at all

If your Son is the registered keeper the letter needs to be from him ( just print his initial/surname). You should advise him you are sending it on his behalf.

Am I right in thinking ,they don't have to pursue the driver anymore because the keeper has to take responsibility

Am I right in thinking ,they don't have to pursue the driver anymore because the keeper has to take responsibility

There are ways around that especially as the tame solicitors screw up, or the signage fails to offer a valid contract to take action on. The team will highlight options no doubt.

possibly,

if CEL have deal with the landowner rather than any of the tenants.

The Co-op certainly wont have anything to do with CEL after they issued hundreds of tickets to employees and then sued their paymasters at a particular site, causing the coop to boot them off every other site they have sole benefit of..

 

However, CEL dont do anything right

I would still be sending them a off a letter on the grounds that there is no keeper liability in this matter as they never get their paperwork right.

 

However it is for the registerd keeper to send the letter as that is who is being chased as they dont know who the driver was and as they use ANPR they havent served notice ot the driver so have to rely on a different process to make a demand legal.

Am I right in thinking , the keeper is now is responsible , and can't use this as a defence . If so .... Is just a case of , from the offset they are just wrong in law , and if you don't understand the law they will try and take advantage of people , and cash in .

the POFA creates a keeper liability IF all the protocols are followed. CEL dont follow then so no keeper liability is created and they can only go after the driver.

However, in 85% of clourt claims the defendant doesnt bother to defend so CEL have a 7/1 on chance of winning any claim they start so it is a numbers game. That is why it is important to get something in writing to them before they start a court claim so they know that you are one of the few that are going to stand your ground and they usually drop the whole thing.

As they will be chasing the wrong person they dont really ahve a claim and some knowledge about the site and the signage will further kick this into the distance. again, they usually get things wrong so cant create a contract to be broken in the first place.

We will never know any of this unless someone pulls their finger out and gets the information we need to ht them really hard.

Never throw away paperwork from parking co's they ahve 6 years to start a fight and often will a couple of years after an event because they know you havent kept all of the correspondence and possibly have moved house etc.

Moving house and not informing the by then forgotten jive-ass PPC allows them to get a defasult CCJ at the old address. The ability to gain CCJ at old address needs to be abolished.

CEL dont have a contract with the Co-Op, so they cant enforce anything.

Your problem is your son is ignorant of this fact and CEL rely on this ignorance to make threats and even take people to court as they never challenge CEL right to do so.

 

As for the sum now being £140,

that is normal for these conmen,

they again add unlawful charges to a contractual sum

and rely on you not knowing they are unlawful under both the POFA and consumer law.

 

Fighting this is easy,

your son as the keeper sends them a letter stating that he knows they have no copntract with the Co-OP

they have no rights to make a claim

furthermore they have not cretaed a keeper liability

they are chasing the wrong person

 

 

lastly the amount claimed also is in breach of the POFA and consumer cotracts law

 

 

he wont be paying them a penny and is minded to sue then for breach of the DPA as per VCS v Philip, Liverpool CC dec 2016

 

get that off pronto and he will undoubtedly hear nothing more

Eric's bro , thanks for your info .ive sent a letter stating the points you advised . So my whole defence would be .... They are just trying to make money out of people under "false pretensess" or not strictly by the letter of the law . I don't know "LAW" not sure I could argue any point of law

In any courtroom .