Apologies if this is in the wrong category as I can see almost all advice re: bailiffs is for debtors but I need advice on how to get a County Court Bailiff to actually enforce a warrant against a company.

My daughter won a claim online for a faulty car that was sold to her.

Dealer didn’t pay up and she thought she had then instructed HCEOs but it turns out she instructed the County Court Bailiff.

This was in July.

There was a mix up with the paperwork which took a couple of weeks to sort out but since then the Bailiff has only been out to the dealer once, at 8am.

Not surprisingly it wasn’t open.

The Bailiff hasn’t been back out since.

I rang up and asked generally how long it takes to enforce a warrant and they said ten days.

This should be a very simple thing to sort out with so many cars on the forecourt.

As it’s now been almost two months

can my daughter ask for her fee back and go with HCE instead?

Surely there is an obligation on the Bailiff to enforce warrants in the order they receive them (where possible of course).

What are her options now?

Any help at all would be appreciated.

Thanks alreadyexists,

While that is probably the only way to go now it annoys me so much on her behalf.

He hasn't provided her with the service she's paid for so why the County Court should keep her money I don't know.

It wasn't made very clear when she issued the warrant who she was doing that through and that she had a choice.

Like I say, she'd assumed it was High Court.

Incidentally, does anyone know whether it's an easy matter to add additional costs on after the fact?

She's been paying for tax and insurance all this time (about eight months in total since she first sent LBA) and had no idea it was going to take this long so hadn't factored them in.

 

Incidentally, does anyone know whether it's an easy matter to add additional costs on after the fact? She's been paying for tax and insurance all this time (about eight months in total since she first sent LBA) and had no idea it was going to take this long so hadn't factored them in.

No it is not an easy matter at all. The warrant is for a specific amount and you would need to take fresh proceedings.

How much is your daughter's judgment for?

Did she obtain judgment by default?

 

My daughter won a claim online for a faulty car that was sold to her.

Dealer didn’t pay up and she thought she had then instructed HCEOs but it turns out she instructed the County Court Bailiff

I hadn't notice before that your daughter had won her claim 'online'. In other words, she got a default judgment (the garage did not file either an acknowledgment of service or a defence). Being completely honest, these are not the best judgments as the garage could apply to set aside the judgement etc.

Please don't be lulled into a false sense of security by the 'bailiff' TV episodes. Enforcing a debt against a garage is far from simple. Even if the garage had purchased the cars on the forecourt, they are not required by DVLA to update the V5C (Log Book) into their name making it difficult to establish 'ownership'.

Please don't be lulled into a false sense of security by the 'bailiff' TV episodes. Enforcing a debt against a garage is far from simple. Even if the garage had purchased the cars on the forecourt, they are not required by DVLA to update the V5C (Log Book) into their name making it difficult to establish 'ownership'.

Surely, though, the V5c only shows the "registered keeper", who isn't always "the owner".

I'd have thought that having the car on a forecourt, for sale, showing a price would suffice : or start off by offering to buy a vehicle that might be levied on, and seeing if they are willing to take payment?

Surely they would not have been in a position to sell the car if they did not own it?

Is it that the garage then says "it's not ours, mate, we are only holding it for the owner / keeper"?

Thanks for all the replies.

Judgement was for just under £3k

The car place did file a defence and at that point both sides were asked to fill in some sort of form. They both had to have the form in by a certain date but the car place didn't do this. They were informed they had so many days to apply to have this possibly looked at again but they didnt respond. At that point she got a judgement.

She heard today that the bailiff has taken control of goods but only on paper. The car place wants to apply to have the judgement set aside. Apparently they have seven days now to do this. Why is this only happening now? They've had all these months to apply so why is the bailiff giving them even more time??

because you didnt bump it to the high court for enforcement the moment the time to pay had passed. These peopel know the game and will do anything to delay and frustrate you. In the menawhile they will hide their assets so whe you do get a HCEO to enforce there will be nothing to seize it will all belong to another company that stared trading at the smae address from the date the set aside was applied for..

 

She heard today that the bailiff has taken control of goods but only on paper. The car place wants to apply to have the judgement set aside. Apparently they have seven days now to do this. Why is this only happening now? They've had all these months to apply so why is the bailiff giving them even more time??

 

 

For want of better words this is normal procedure. They have to allow the time as if they do go ahead with their Set Aside application & win then everything has to be rewound. However the time taken could well go against their application.

 

She heard today that the bailiff has taken control of goods but only on paper. The car place wants to apply to have the judgement set aside.

Don't be downhearted about the bailiff taking control of goods 'on paper'. The bottom line is that he has 'taken control' (of goods) and has done so legally.

From the further explanation that you have given today, I would say that your daughter has a good chance of securing her judgment. If the garage had a good defence.....then they had the opportunity to defend at the time. Court's do not take too kindly to delays and in particular, when that delay is stopping a debtor receiving payment of a legally awarded judgment.

Thank you so much for your replies. We're both feeling a lot more hopeful than we were when we saw the letter. Will keep you updated.

" The car place wants to apply to have the judgement set aside. Apparently they have seven days now to do this. Why is this only happening now? They've had all these months to apply so why is the bailiff giving them even more time?? "

Irrelevant until they actually make an application to set a side.. ...7 days to pay the Judgment ?

Regards

Andy

Daughter spoke to bailiff today as the seven days should have started from 12th September. He said that he can't physically take the goods while the defendant is saying he is going to put an application in to set aside. He said this could go on for the rest of the life of the warrant (a year). When I've seen tv programmes with HCEOs they always state that they can take the goods unless they see the actual application. Surely it can't be different for CCB? Surely they have to see an application before they stop action?

Daughter spoke to bailiff today as the seven days should have started from 12th September. He said that he can't physically take the goods while the defendant is saying he is going to put an application in to set aside. He said this could go on for the rest of the life of the warrant (a year). When I've seen tv programmes with HCEOs they always state that they can take the goods unless they see the actual application. Surely it can't be different for CCB? Surely they have to see an application before they stop action?

This is simply unacceptable and only goes to endorse the recent report from Lord Justice Briggs about the slowness of County Court bailiffs in recovering orders made by the court in a speedy manner.

I would suggest that your daughter speak with the bailiff manager to state that she is considering making a formal complaint. My immediate concern is twofold:

Firstly, the creditor is now aware that your daughter has taken steps to recover her judgment and may try to dispose of other goods that have not yet been 'taken into control'.

Secondly, as some goods have already been 'taken into control', this may hinder your daughters case if she is now considering asking a High Court enforcement company to take over recovery.

Please post back once your daughter has spoken with the Bailiff Manager.

Thank you so much for your reply.

Daughter is now waiting for a time when she feels calm enough to try and contact the manager.

After a bit of googling I found this:

"An application to set aside a default judgment does not stop the enforcement.The judgment remains in force until it is set aside. It can therefore be enforced and there’s nothing to prevent the claimant from continuing enforcement action to recover their money. Even if you have already begun the application process, the bailiffs are still allowed to seize and sell your goods."

Our bailiff was claiming he couldn't proceed even if the defendant was only saying he was ABOUT to apply. The information above says that even if the defendant starts the application the enforcement can still go ahead. So which is right? I can't see it being correct that a defendant can keep claiming he's about to do something but not do it and use that as a tool to prevent a claimant getting their money.

"An application to set aside a default judgment does not stop the enforcement.The judgment remains in force until it is set aside. It can therefore be enforced and there’s nothing to prevent the claimant from continuing enforcement action to recover their money. Even if you have already begun the application process, the bailiffs are still allowed to seize and sell your goods."

The above is correct...he may decide to make his application in 2 years time:roll:

My daughter wrote to the manager on 22nd so he should have got that on Monday but no response as yet. Car dealer seems to be selling cars through a third party but as she didn't get a list of the goods taken into control she doesn't know if he's doing anything wrong yet. In the letter she asked for a list of the goods as it wasn't on the update sheet the bailiff sent her. The update said “The goods taken into control are: DEFENDANT TO APPLY TO SJA” (their caps).

My daughter wrote to the manager on 22nd so he should have got that on Monday but no response as yet. Car dealer seems to be selling cars through a third party but as she didn't get a list of the goods taken into control she doesn't know if he's doing anything wrong yet. In the letter she asked for a list of the goods as it wasn't on the update sheet the bailiff sent her. The update said “The goods taken into control are: DEFENDANT TO APPLY TO SJA” (their caps).

A County Court bailiff is answerable to the District Judge so I would be surprised if you don't receive a response within the next 7 days.

Update: I don't know whether to laugh hysterically or cry.

Daughter's letter got passed to bailiff manager who is based at a different court so she was misinformed by the local court about who was in charge.

She rang the manager today and it seems no goods have been taken control of.

She was on speaker phone when she spoke to the bailiff originally and I specifically heard him say he had taken control of 'everything on the forecourt'.

The dealer apparently buys these cars at auction but doesn't change the ownership before selling them on and so claimed none belong to him.

The manager is taking that side of it further.

Apparently the dealer has now applied for SJA but I'm fairly confident he won't get very far with it.

It's all a horrible mess.

Update: I don't know whether to laugh hysterically or cry.

 

The dealer apparently buys these cars at auction but doesn't change the ownership before selling them on and so claimed none belong to him. The manager is taking that side of it further.

The Manager needs to take the matter further because, unlike members of the public, garages are not required to update the Log Book into their name. I won't go into the boring details of why, but I am quite confident that my understanding of this is correct.

So the fact the log books are not in his name shouldn't stop them seizing them because the dealer still owns them? The sales receipts will surely still show he's the owner?

He seems very well prepared.

So the fact the log books are not in his name shouldn't stop them seizing them because the dealer still owns them? The sales receipts will surely still show he's the owner?

I am quite confident that my information on this is correct. Garages are exempt from having to update the Log Book into their name. The sale receipt evidencing that they purchased the vehicle at auction is sufficient evidence to prove that the vehicles are owned by the garage.

Update: I don't know whether to laugh hysterically or cry.

 

Daughter's letter got passed to bailiff manager who is based at a different court so she was misinformed by the local court about who was in charge. She rang the manager today and it seems no goods have been taken control of. She was on speaker phone when she spoke to the bailiff originally and I specifically heard him say he had taken control of 'everything on the forecourt'.

Earlier in the thread you were (correctly!) advised of the risks of escalating the enforcement to HCEOs if there were already ‘goods taken under control’.

I would suggest that your daughter speak with the bailiff manager to state that she is considering making a formal complaint. My immediate concern is twofold:

............

 

Secondly, as some goods have already been 'taken into control', this may hinder your daughters case if she is now considering asking a High Court enforcement company to take over recovery.

BA, if there aren’t any goods under control, can the OP’s daughter ask the County court bailiff to cease action and can she then escalate it (via the high Court) to HCEO’s, who can enforce (even if there may be a set-aside application) provided their writ is still active??

Is “no goods have been taken control of” actually a good thing in these circumstances, allowing involvement of HCEOs?

BA, if there aren’t any goods under control, can the OP’s daughter ask the County court bailiff to cease action and can she then escalate it (via the high Court) to HCEO’s, who can enforce (even if there may be a set-aside application) provided their writ is still active??

 

Is “no goods have been taken control of” actually a good thing in these circumstances, allowing involvement of HCEOs?

Given the confusion as to whether or not goods have been 'taken into control', I would tend to wait for the outcome of the complaint. If that complaint confirms that no goods have been 'taken into control', then it is perfectly OK to involve a HCEO company.

An application to 'set aside' the judgement is just that...an application. If the 'set aside' is agreed (which many are not), then enforcement ceases. Until then, an HCEO can continue to enforce the writ.

Update: Dealer got it set aside. I have no idea how as his excuses were ridiculous and the fact he waited over two months after judgement to apply wasn't even dealt with. Still in shock. Date now set for a trial but I've told daughter she really needs proper legal advice now because of what happened in the last hearing.

She got a written reply from bailiff manager but just giving a sort of (inaccurate) timeliine, no real response to her complaints.

Don't be too disheartened by this as they Set Aside is only granted temporarily pending a further Hearing. Were you given any paperwork by the Defendant prior to this Hearing - Defence statement or Statement of Case perhaps. Until you have something from them you do not know how strong his case will be.