Help please!

This is my first post ever on web and I do so because I really need help.

I received a huge fine from dvla £407 for commiting a offence by keeping a unlicensed vehicle on the road.

I am shocked because I don't have the money ,

I am also going through an Individual Voluntary Agreement setting at the moment ,

wife due to give birth to our second child in 2 weeks

and never worked due to depression ,

never claimed any penny whatsoever either.

I am the only one providing for the Family.

I had this car Sorn and parked at the back of the flat in the car park.

I live in a cul de sac and have a car park at front of flat too.

Whilst still MOTed I insured it for one day and went to renew my Mot 1 week before it expired

on return parked it at the front of the flat in the car park.

While I was abroad my wife called me and told me the car was clamped .

It was clamped by the Council and they were demanding £100 fine for unclamping it if it was taxed .

I taxed it and argued for the fine as I was convinced Sorn was covering that part of the car park too ,

but after reading the internet I found it as public road.

This had happened on 1st of July 2017.

Now I am receiving this fine as dvla writes that the offence stands s29 .

They saying they have received a report about the above offence.

I can understand if someone does this in a repetitive way , or intentionally

but for one mistake to act like this and demand money or else ..,

I was completely unaware of the front car park not being looked at as private and I tryied to elxplain it all but got told off by the council people.

Is there a way around this please?

Anyone had been thrugh this before?

Any advise will be much appreciate it!

Thank you!

For DVLA purposes, a public road is (in England & Wales) 'a road repairable at public expense'. You need to establish the status of the land where your car was parked - part of a 'public road' or not. In the case of Clarke v Kato and Cutter vEagle Star (1988), the house of Lords decision was that a 'car park' is not a 'road'.

There have been cases of mistakes by the DVLA contractors clamping vehicles that were not on a public road.

Many thanks Raykay ! I should then look it up on the internet and possibly find out or a trip to the Renting Agency .

Very useful answer much appreciate !

As this has been to Magistrates and you have a fine registered, don't delay taking action too long or you will have bailiffs at the door.

If you never had a court summons, you might be able to complete a statutory declaration at court and get it reopened where the issue of the land can be raised.

Has it been to Magistrates already ? I thought this had to be sent to me first from Dvla and then if not paid it goes to Court. A bit confused now . They are stating what part of the offence this is but no words of the Magistrates . I only just received it today in the post and I have till 10th of Sept to pay

The £100 fine was paid towards the Council , who clamped my car .

I paid it same day .

today I received the dvla fine as this was a offence commited at the time regardless of the Council fine.

In other words it looks like the Council informed Dvla of the offence and now Dvla want their share so to speak.

But four houndred pounds for parking my car in front of my flat looks like robbery to me and with all the circumstances it couldn've come at a better time .

I would want to know how DVLA apply that level of fine without oversight of Magistrates.

Surely people do have right to challenge in a court.

I mean I can almost read the hate of that person writing this fine.

How had it calculated this ?

Was he even aware that the car was SORN don't think the Council told them this , or was it the Council ?

or they just come up as automated emails?

The car was SORN and from the letter it don't seem to reflect this but only unlicensed usage of the car .

You do not get the chance to explain or appeal and I don't think this is fair

I tried uploading a photo of the letter but it doesn't work .

This £407 fine its an out of court settlement offer , to avoid court action.

I am asked to send the letter back with a cheque or postal order or pay by phone.

It is also sent unsigned by a sicere Enforcement Officer.

Given that you cannot afford this penalty amount, then you don't have much choice but to let DVLA take it to court if they want to, where you can defend and if you end up with a fine, you can ask for your financial position to be taken into account. If necessary you can pay a fine over a relevant period making it affordable.

You should find out about registration of the land where the carpark is to find out if it is maintained at public expense.

For the offence, it needs to be a road repairable at public expense- not a car park.

I am confused because i have seen comments by others on other threads that carparks can be treated as public highways.

Was the offence of being unlicenced committed while parked in this carpark or when it was detected on ANPR cameras on the day of the MOT ?

They are usually Road Traffic Act 1988 matters, where the definition in some sections is 'a road, or other public place', which can include car parks.

The OP''s offence - s. 29, Vehicles Excise & Registration Act 1994 - can only be committed on a 'public road'.

I see.

I just wonder whether someone with necessary powers has obtained ANPR camera data and from this they have evidence of the car being driven on a public road while apparently SORN. Perhaps this was at a time the car was not booked in for an MOT.

If this is possible, then the OP might ask DVLA for evidence of where and when they believe the offence was committed.

The usual problem is that an 'over enthusiastic' DVLA contractor clamps a vehicle which is not actually on a public road, and informs the DVLA of the alleged offence, they then start action for the offence relying on that information.

Once they are shown that the vehicle was not on a public road, they discontinue.

Thank you all so very much for all answers ,

This car as well as other cars I had were never ever driven outside law of any sorts.

It wasn't Dvla who clamped the car but the Council .

This was driven to and from the nearby Mot station and that was it.

I have never ever thought for 1second that I would get in trouble for parking it where I normaly park .

It was parked there before while sorn and other vehicles too.

Thats because I did not know .

That cul de sac looks very much a private road to me .

I am sure many people don't know about this.

There are no cameras either .

I don't know how they could possibly know about this car and don't know if they coincidently clamped it while I was abroad

Might it be that people at Halfords where the mot was done informed Council ?

What would they gain from this?

I think the ultimate solution as you say is to go to court and get a chance to explain what happened.

I don't have money anyway but it is just so upseting because I know I didn't do anything wrong and it frustrates me when I pay taxes and Council Tax etc and they are using and looking constantly to use the law for their benefits worst than banks almost like mafia ,

they twist and bend rules to their benefit and they are so filled with greed.

I mean another houndred pounds fine from dvla would probably upset anyone but will possibly pay it but four houndred ?

for what?

how will they use the money to prevent this from happening again?

they won't I am sure is just their greed because they have the law and they can play with people's lifes

You need to establish the status of the land where the car was parked] - public road or not - is it a road repairable expense - the local council usually have maps of roads they are responsible for.

A SORN vehicle being driven for a an obligatory MOT test is an exempt vehicle as far as licensing is concerned, so it would be of no interest to Halfords.

poss give us the postcode and we can look on google earth?

Thank you very much ! Will do that or try to contact the council tomorrow and ask them if that road is repairable expense and then come back here and continue .

Its so great people like yourselfs are so helpful I do same on any field I can help and won't hesitate on this website either

Many thanks again

Have good evening

Yes

DA17 5RS

HALIFIELD DRIVE , Belvedere

flats 64 onwards

you mean:

the car park in the middle here?

apologies I am at work on night shift

it is the one in the right bottom corner facing the white van

that's where it also terminates

dead end road

that's a public road then not a car park.

dx

Thank you dx!

I see so that is just outside my flat and not allowed to park there while SORN

I get that but giving the circumstances and the fact that I honestly didn't know and not had similar fines before in my life , will I stand a chance in Court?

They're asking for another 400 pounds like I knew the vehicle is not licensed but drove it anyway and ignored the law where clearly isn't the case , it was just a mistake.

Will I stand a chance over a phone conversation with probably one of the manageres at Dvla ,

explaining what happened and ask for a reduction say 200 pound , will they care ?

Many thanks to you all!

Apreciate all answers!

pointless IMHO.

if you weren't parked in the carpark by which I mean where the predominantly 6 white cars and the blue/red cars are

[and even then I think you'll find that's council maintained anyway]

but were parked by the white van?

that's a public road

the fact that you'd got away with parking a sorn'd car there is lucky to date.

so post 11 applies

what date are the DVLA saying the offence occurred ?

The DVLA Penalty is likely to include the cost of the Stat Penalty for having a SORNed vehicle on a Public road + the cost of road tax since last obtained. A private supermarket car park is not nec 'Private land' if not desgnated as such & to which the general public has access. IMO.

Did you drive on a Public Road to reach the car park, which pres did not contain an MOT Test Centre, whilst the vehicle was effectively SORNed?

Could have been a worse outcome.

Thank you

So much to learn , very expensive though .

If that's the case then I guess I was lucky , stupidly assumed that it is a residential car park

Thank you very much for all your inputs , learned from them.

Hope work colleague will help with the money , humiliating but if its the law and I was in the wrong then it is what it is.

Regards

Adrian