First of all, this is not my debt. It's my room mates. I had an idea he had some form of debt but not the details of whom to.

So on the 21st at 2pm I hear a knock at the door, I have severe anxiety so I don't answer the door unless I'm expecting a package.

He came round the back and I genuinely thought he was a burgular, who had realised no one was in and was tryong it on. We have had people in our back garden before banging on the door. Some sketchy dude asking how to get out the garden. Anyway. He got in, im sure the door was locked and he was there for a few minutes before he got in. It's a sliding patio door that I have since read is really easy to get into. All the while I was curled up in a ball in the bathroom having a panic attack.

He was in the house before I had seen him and called out that he was enforcement officer. He told me he was looking for my room mate and I explained the situation. I'm not my room mate and he had to leave as I had am exam that I was leaving for at 3. He disclosed my room mates debt, totals, what its for and asked me to ring my room mate.

Long story short after 2 hours he took inventory and got £872 out of my room mate of which £450 was mine that I loaned him. He left at 4.06pm which was 6 minutes after my exam had started. If I was to leave to get to my exam I would have got there at around 4.36pm giving me 24 minutes to do the exam as its only a hour long.

I got in touch with uni who have told me I 1. Retake the year. Or 2. Retake my resit in January but I'll be classed as a absent student unable to study until sept 2018. That's if i pass the exam.

Now my problem. The resit is in January, which is a long way off, I probably won't be able to remember and thus fail. It's a big big risk to take over retaking the year.

Like i said, I stated more than 3 times thst I had an exam and had to leave. But I wasn't going to leave a stranger in my house with my dogs.

Can i potentially sue the bailiffs? I'd be looking for a years of uni fees as I don't think I should be penalised for a debt that is not my fault.

Also, does my room mate have a leg to stand on with data protection act?

This was for council tax.

Sorry for the long winded thread. Thabks in advance for any help or advice.

Hi

I take it your room mate is not a student ?

First of all, this is not my debt. It's my room mates. I had an idea he had some form of debt but not the details of whom to.

 

So on the 21st at 2pm I hear a knock at the door, I have severe anxiety so I don't answer the door unless I'm expecting a package.

 

He came round the back and I genuinely thought he was a burgular, who had realised no one was in and was tryong it on. We have had people in our back garden before banging on the door. Some sketchy dude asking how to get out the garden. Anyway. He got in, im sure the door was locked and he was there for a few minutes before he got in. It's a sliding patio door that I have since read is really easy to get into. All the while I was curled up in a ball in the bathroom having a panic attack.

 

He was in the house before I had seen him and called out that he was enforcement officer. He told me he was looking for my room mate and I explained the situation. I'm not my room mate and he had to leave as I had am exam that I was leaving for at 3. He disclosed my room mates debt, totals, what its for and asked me to ring my room mate.

 

Long story short after 2 hours he took inventory and got £872 out of my room mate of which £450 was mine that I loaned him. He left at 4.06pm which was 6 minutes after my exam had started. If I was to leave to get to my exam I would have got there at around 4.36pm giving me 24 minutes to do the exam as its only a hour long.

 

I got in touch with uni who have told me I 1. Retake the year. Or 2. Retake my resit in January but I'll be classed as a absent student unable to study until sept 2018. That's if i pass the exam.

 

Now my problem. The resit is in January, which is a long way off, I probably won't be able to remember and thus fail. It's a big big risk to take over retaking the year.

 

Like i said, I stated more than 3 times thst I had an exam and had to leave. But I wasn't going to leave a stranger in my house with my dogs.

 

Can i potentially sue the bailiffs? I'd be looking for a years of uni fees as I don't think I should be penalised for a debt that is not my fault.

 

Also, does my room mate have a leg to stand on with data protection act?

 

This was for council tax.

 

Sorry for the long winded thread. Thabks in advance for any help or advice.

I doubt you have any redress against them if the enforcement officer obtained 'peaceful entry'.

This is because they will claim that:

firstly, your losses did not arise directly from their actions and even if they did, they were not 'reasonably forseeable', so they are not liable for them, but

secondly, even if they were potentially liable, you are required to "mitigate your loss".

If he was there for over 2 hours you could have "mitigated your loss", by getting your room mate (or someone else!) to return, so that the enforcement officer wasn't left there alone, and you could still have gone to your exam.

basically you didt have to loan your roomie the money and you could have left before this as your roomie was presumably there by then albeit without your money.

My room mate was at work an hour away. The bailiff was using my phone to call my room mate and even if he wasnt, he was in my house. I'm not going to leave a bailiff in my house so I can go take an exam. How is my house going to be secure? I'm a student who doesnt really know anyone in this area apart from maybe my neighbours.

Would I really be expected to leave a bailiff unsupervised in my house???

Basically, you will not be able to obtain redress for the bailiff remaining on the premises, he is entitled to remain there until the levy is complete.

As for the data protection act, it depends on what the bailiff asked you to disclose and if you were acting s the debtors intermediary. The fact that you agreed to pay part of his debt would seem to indicate the latter.

I told him at 2 I needed to leave at 3. He took 2 mins to take inv. I also had to prove items were mine via receipts.

So I'm really going to punished for a debt thats not mine?

It was not your debt. You could of left.

It was not your debt. You could of left.

I honestly dont understand how you can say that?

My possessions were in the house.

He was asking me for proof.

My dogs were in the house and arent too friendly to unknown people.

Would you leave a bailiff in your house unattended?

Also what would have happened when he left?

Just leaves my house unsecure???????

I honestly dont understand how you can say that?

 

 

My possessions were in the house.

He was asking me for proof.

My dogs were in the house and arent too friendly to unknown people.

 

 

Would you leave a bailiff in your house unattended?

Also what would have happened when he left?

Just leaves my house unsecure???????

The thing is the bailiff is entitled to call at any time ( within the requirements of the law), There is no facility for the debtor or anyone else to tell them and call back at a more convenient time.

Presumably, he gained entry to the debtor's room, also peacefully?

The bailiff is required under legislation to leave a property secure if there is no one there to do so.

If you thought he was a burglar the obvious move was to dial 999. Perhaps you realised from his clothing that he was an Enforcement officer and expecting a visit as your room mate would have received a letter two weeks prior to the effect that some one would call round if no contact was made with the Enforcement company or the debt was not paid within that period.

Yes the EA was very wrong to give out your room mates details but that is something for them to discuss with the EA and has no effect on your situation.

I appreciate you were in a difficult situation about leaving the EA alone in your property but find it hard to believe that you are worrying about missing your exam in January. If it is important to your future you will be there. So suing the EA is out of the question. Your room mate however does owe you an apology for allowing the situation to escalate to a visit which would have added £235 to the debt and led to you missing your exam . You should also expect a big thank you for helping to pay the debt.

The thing is the bailiff is entitled to call at any time ( within the requirements of the law), There is no facility for the debtor or anyone else to tell them and call back at a more convenient time.

Presumably, he gained entry to the debtor's room, also peacefully?

 

The bailiff is required under legislation to leave a property secure if there is no one there to do so.

Yeah in 90% sure the door was locked. When he entered the door was locked and opened which I haven't been able to recreate but I've since been told sliding doors are a burglars best friend. We are awaiting body cam footage. If theyll give it to us

I should say that if you feel that the bailiff has inflicted damages on you, your recourse would be via the small claims court, and not by an action under the bailiff regulations.

I could not recommend such an action in your case, you would be throwing good money after bad, but never the less it should be stated.

If you thought he was a burglar the obvious move was to dial 999. Perhaps you realised from his clothing that he was an Enforcement officer and expecting a visit as your room mate would have received a letter two weeks prior to the effect that some one would call round if no contact was made with the Enforcement company or the debt was not paid within that period.

 

Yes the EA was very wrong to give out your room mates details but that is something for them to discuss with the EA and has no effect on your situation.

 

I appreciate you were in a difficult situation about leaving the EA alone in your property but find it hard to believe that you are worrying about missing your exam in January. If it is important to your future you will be there. So suing the EA is out of the question. Your room mate however does owe you an apology for allowing the situation to escalate to a visit which would have added £235 to the debt and led to you missing your exam . You should also expect a big thank you for helping to pay the debt.

I have already missed my exam. I did not see the man, the first time I saw him was when he was in my back room which he entered through the sliding doors. I do not open my room mates mail... why would i? I have severe anxiety and I'm currently waiting to be assessed for autism. He knocked once and then as I heard the back gate open I ran into the bathroom and started to have a panic attack on the floor. My legs turned to jelly and I felt like I was going to die. Calling 999 was not my first thought at that moment.

When he called out that he was enforcement I felt safe and went out the bathroom. Missing the exam in January is not something im worried about im worried about taking a whole year out of uni and going back after a year not remembering anything at all. Which is why i feel like I should retake the year instead of risking it and having to retake it anyway but starting sept 2018

I can now see why you said about missing my January exam. I should have phrased thst better. I'm worried I won't remember the material ive been learning this past year.

I honestly dont understand how you can say that?

 

 

My possessions were in the house.

He was asking me for proof.

My dogs were in the house and arent too friendly to unknown people.

 

 

Would you leave a bailiff in your house unattended?

Also what would have happened when he left?

Just leaves my house unsecure???????

Its not your debt. Show proof the items belong to you.

If you cant at the time, the enforcement officer takes control of the goods on paper and you have Tim to get your proof.

Even after that if the agent actually removed the listed goods you still have 7 days to prove the goods are yours and not the debtors before auction.

So my reply stands, you could of left.

You state that the agent came at around 2pm. Your friend was 1 hour away. That takes you to 3pm.

Still plenty of Time to sit your exam.

And no, the agent would not of left the house insecure.

I have already missed my exam. I did not see the man, the first time I saw him was when he was in my back room which he entered through the sliding doors. I do not open my room mates mail... why would i? I have severe anxiety and I'm currently waiting to be assessed for autism. He knocked once and then as I heard the back gate open I ran into the bathroom and started to have a panic attack on the floor. My legs turned to jelly and I felt like I was going to die. Calling 999 was not my first thought at that moment.

 

When he called out that he was enforcement I felt safe and went out the bathroom. Missing the exam in January is not something im worried about im worried about taking a whole year out of uni and going back after a year not remembering anything at all. Which is why i feel like I should retake the year instead of risking it and having to retake it anyway but starting sept 2018

 

 

I can now see why you said about missing my January exam. I should have phrased thst better. I'm worried I won't remember the material ive been learning this past year.

I would try and change my mindset regarding missing your exam.

Treat this as extra time to study and revise, gather info regarding what questions were asked in the current paper and use this to test yourself .

Because of this, you may get an A whereas you may have got a lesser grade.

You have to try and turn things like this to your advantage. (not preaching honest)

I understand what your saying but even in the circumstances that what the op states... I was curled up in the bathroom having a panic attack..

My 1st thoughts would be 999.

I have all my receipts for major items in my house. The agent is only interested in major items, not a £2 vase. So my tv, dvd, sky, playstation laptops and desktop I have reciepts for.

Not "just in case a bailiff calls"

Its in case I have a problem with them and need to go back to the retailer.

So yes I could find a receipt at 6am in the morning.

I can now see why you said about missing my January exam. I should have phrased thst better. I'm worried I won't remember the material ive been learning this past year.

Ah now I understand. I am exactly the same. Once I had completed my A levels there is no way I could have redone them even the following day and get anything like the same marks.

I throw most receipts out once the warranty expires. However, most do not have any details of who the purchaser was in any case so would not advance the matter any further forward.

 

The issue is a major problem in situations whereby bailiffs visit a parents home for a magistrates court fine and tell the parent that (s)he must provide proof that items in the lounge are not the debtors. Also, in HCEO cases whereby HCEOs are "presuming" that a family computer, printer, desk etc belong to the debtor unless the homeowner can prove otherwise. I see little incentive in forming a limited company, if your personal belongings are threatened by HCEOs.

 

In both of those situations, it is an abuse of power to "presume" that the goods belong to the debtor when it is 99% likely (and obvious) that they don't. In nearly all cases, the bailiff has no real intent on taking the goods away in any case.

 

It is very difficult to balance the needs of the creditor against those of the debtor.

 

In the OPs case, I would probably have gone and sat my exam but I have the benefit of a little knowledge of the subject. I can understand the reluctance to leave the house unattended.

Looking at things from the other side, as I try to do.

It would be impossible for a bailiff to do his job if he continually had to abandon goods because there is an unsupported claim of third party ownership.

It logically must to be the case that the bailiff can presume and the debtor has to prove otherwise if it weren't goods would never be taken under control.

,

The bailiff is an appointed agent, the court will presume, rightly or wrongly that he is being truthful(in most cases)l, unfortunately.

Long time reader, new to posting.

You raised an interesting point about 3rd party goods and owners paying the debtor's debt.

I had a look at the CPR which requires the 3rd party to pay the court the value of the goods. Wouldn’t that defeat the purpose as its cheaper to pay the debt on behalf of the debtor and get back the goods?

The OP says he had to remain at home to protect the 3rd party and missed an exam. I can’t see an obvious claim against the bailiff apart from a financial claim under £10,000 for his missing his exam for a year.

I have no doubt you have experience of dealing with bailiffs, but perhaps i can offer a provide an independent view, having no axe to grind.

I think that in all your arguments presented, you forgot the basic point i made. It is the only way the system as it is can work.

it is fine adding emotional fuel to the argument and to go on about individual cases of hardship, but it does not charge the truth of the matter.

Actions after the making of goods has occurred is not what I commenting on, and do not intend to,

it has all been gone over a million times before

The fact is that the bailiff is in the position to make a decision, the debtor must present proof to him if he disagrees, that is the way it has to be.

A pnc check on the vehicle would bring back the car to the registered keeper. Ultimately the registered keeper is responsible for penalty charge notices as laid out in law.

A 10k vehicle can be removed for a £500 fine as it would be the only asset accessible therefore not excessive ( no forced entry into property as is not a criminal fine, so taking control of other assests requires peaceable entry)

For clarity, I too have no axe to grind with bailiffs.

 

I have never had any dealings with bailiffs on a personal level - My only dealings with them have been professionally or as a volunteer.

 

Abrahami - Excellent point.

 

The deposit is of course refundable if the claim is successful. Problems arise when a third party owner has a £10K vehicle removed for a £500 PCN debt. Bailiff companies ask the court (and threaten the innocent third party debtor with the same) to insist that the debtor lodges a £10K bond with the court. It is important that the board is aware that the court has discretion to determine the amount of the deposit that is lodged and a third party owner should ALWAYS request a deposit that is proportionate.

What on earth made you think I was referring to your personal interactions? No, not a bit of it, your posts on here seem to me to be somewhat biased IMO, that is all meant. Especially for a professional adviser.

I will leave you t discuss section 85 with your colleague.

Wrong I'm afraid.

 

If you purchase a vehicle in good faith, you are not responsible for the previous keepers penalties. You are not "the debtor" and it doesn't work like log book loans do.

 

Furthermore, the Taking Control of Goods: National Standards state that enforcement agents must take all reasonable steps to ensure that the goods taken into control are proportionate in value to the amount owed (including fees) I would argue that a bailiff should attempt to gain entry to a debtors property to ensure that goods of a proportionate value are seized. Failing that, a debtor should be given the option to surrender goods of a proportionate value, rather than a £10k vehicle for a £500 debt.

I think it is clear to most that the registered keeper referred too means the person who had the log book at the time of the offense. I am unsure what you mean regarding log book loans.

As for entering premise, it is generally the case that entry is refused or even that they have been following FMoTL advice and sent a "withdrawal of implied rights" letter as happened in a recent case on here.

Of course, if this is the case the bailiff may seize anything which will cover the debt. I don't remember seeing anything about surrendering goods can you link it.

Sorry but the registered keeper at the time of the offense is regarded as such tor enforcement purposesx. SO yes if the person in question is the registered keeper at that time he will be liable of course.

If the car has changed hands since this it does not mean the new owner is responsible for an offense he did not commit that would be silly.

No idea what you are talking about here if the bailiff does not attend the premises there will be no opportunity to deny entry.

If there is nothing in writing that confirms what you say well that is the end of that. You say you have used this argument well let's see the proof please otherwise well you should know by now. It seems to me that there is nothing in regulations which suggests this.

The rest is just your opinion and consists of could be should be etc.