Hello,

I have been issued with CCJ papers regarding a Marks and Spencer account from 1999 for circa £4000. Whilst I don't deny the money is owned, at this time I would like if at all possible, to avoid receiving a CCJ judgement.

I have already learned about Statute Barred debts, but as I was making token monthly payments in 2014/15, I am aware that this would not apply under the 6 year rule.

But what about the likelihood of this being unenforceable in respect of the Credit agreement in some way? Also, the following may be of some significance...

In the CCJ papers, on the Particulars of Claim section this refers to a quote "Marks and Spencer's Credit Card" .....now although I did have a Marks and Spencer's More Credit Card at that time, the reference number quoted on the Claim is NOT for this card.

It is for a Marks and Spencer's Special Reserve Account....which was a draw down facility of £3000, with a cheque book issued whereby I would make cheques payable to myself, as and when I wanted to use these funds.

Accordingly, some advice on this particular point and the Credit agreement aspect, would be much appreciated - thank you.

Note: The DCA is 1st C****t - not sure how much specific detail I should put on here, as this is my first post.

Hi 65Chap and Welcome to CAG

Thread moved to the appropriate forum...please continue to post here to your thread.

If you would read the following link which explains the process of a court claim and then copy and paste the Qs and your responses back here to your thread for further advice.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?419198-You-have-received-a-Claim-What-you-need-to-do.-**UPDATED-2016**(1-Viewing)-nbsp

Regards

Andy

Many thanks for your response Andy - very much appreciated. Below are the answers to the questions as requested.

Name of the Claimant ? ***1st Credit (Finance) Ltd

Date of issue – ***1st August 2017

Date of issue XX + 19 days ( 5 day for service + 14 days to acknowledge) = XX + 14 days to submit defence = XX (33 days in total) -

What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim?

1.The Claimant is the assignee of a Marks and Spencer Financial Services Plc debt in the sum of £3900 assigned on X/X/2014. Statutory notices of assignment were sent to the defendant.

2.The debt is a Credit Card account first opened by the original creditor on or about X/X/1999 under reference XXXXXX.

The Defendant used the Credit facilities. On X/X/2007 the account defaulted with an outstanding balance of £4150.

3.The Claimant and it's predecessors in title demanded repayment of the sum due. In breach of contract the Defendant failed to repay the sums due.

AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS

1. The sum of £3750 -

2. Statutory INTEREST pursuant to S.69 County Courts Act 1984 at 8% per annum from X/X/2016 until Judgement or sooner.

What is the value of the claim? ***Claim is for £4200 - after the addition of court fees.

Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? ***In the Claim, they state Credit Card.....but it was for a Marks and Spencer Special Reserve Account....which was a draw down facility of £3000 - with a cheque book issued, whereby I could make cheques payable to myself, as and when I wanted to use these funds. These was no Card provided.

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after 2007? ***Before 2007....it was in 1999.

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. ***It was assigned and the Claim has been issued by the debt purchaser. [Note - the Claimant may not have been the original purchaser of the debt.]

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? ***I may have done but don't remember for sure.....I went through a long protracted period with my "head in the sand" and not opening mail.

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? ***Again, I may have done but don't remember clearly and hence same answer as the question above.

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Default sums” – at least once a year ? ***I am sorry, but again I may have done but don't remember and hence same answer as the questions above. However, I have retained much of the mail from this early period which I could search through, but this would take some time. Certainly I can check fairly quickly, unopened mail for the past couple of months prior to receiving the CCJ paperwork.

Why did you cease payments? ***The company I worked with at that time, went into Liquidation and my income was then drastically reduced and hence I could not keep up with the payments on my Cards and loan. The situation was impacted further, by a couple of heart attacks and another since.

What was the date of your last payment?

***It would have been the middle of 2015........by phone, I had agreed token monthly repayments with the Claimant at the beginning of 2014. Unfortunately, a further decrease in income meant I could not even maintain this payment.

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? ***No, I don't recall a dispute with the original creditor.

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? ***Yes, first in 2007 and again in 2008.....this in respect to the specific debt detailed here and also other debts/loans on cards and a bank. This is something I arranged myself with each of them - first stopping all the substantial PPI premiums I was paying on each; requesting the interest to be frozen [agreed] and then paying a percentage of the usual monthly payments, pro rata the size of each debt.

Thank you.

Thank you...now refer back to the link provided and send CPR31.14 and section 78 request (CCA)..all instructions are provided i n the link and templates.

I have now written the CPR31.14 letter for the Solicitor and the CCA Section 78 letter for the Claimant and these will both be printed tomorrow and posted 1st Class Recorded in the morning.

This afternoon, I have also submitted the Acknowledgement of Service at the MCOL website but as this was completed after 4pm,

I understand this will count from tomorrow the 11th August.

with the Claim dated 1st August, how many days do I now have to submit the Defence?

I assume I am now waiting to hear back from the Solicitor and Claimant, in response to my letters before I can submit the Defence.

Will you advise further at some point regarding this and what in particular, I am wanting/needing to receive back from them in this regard, to assist the Defence?

Thanks again - much appreciated.

33 days from and including the 1st August ....2nd September

whatever you do you don't miss the above date.

go read like thread in the successes forum or here

Thanks for the date confirmation Andy and also dx100uk for recommending the Successes forum. I've had a brief look through there, but couldn't see anything related to this specific M + S type of product, but I'll research further over the week-end. Have made an initial donation this morning - thanks again.

Many thanks...it does not necessary have to be a M&S Card..look for any credit card particularly from the same claimant....give you an idea of the process

Andy

Here is an update to this situation as of today 25th August...

.the CCA letter to the DCA was posted 1st Class Recorded on 11th August and received by them on 14th August.

On the 16th August, I received a letter from them dated 14th August and the wording in their reply is as follows:-

"We write further to your recent correspondence with regards to the above outstanding debt, and acknowledge your request for a copy of your credit agreement pursuant to 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

We confirm that we have requested this from the original creditor and will forward this to you once we are in receipt of the same.

In the interim we confirm that no further action will be taken against you in respect of this matter by us, until the credit agreement has been provided to you." - end.

The CPR31.14 letter to the Solicitor was also posted 1st Class Recorded on 11th August but oddly, not signed for and received by them until the 21st August.

On the 23rd August I received a letter back from them dated 21st August and the wording in their reply is as follows:-

"We refer to the above matter and to your letter dated 10th August 2017, received today.

We have requested copies of the documents you require from our client and will forward these to you as soon as they are available." -end

With just 8 days now until the 2nd September,

I understand I still need to submit a Denfense at the MCOL website,

any further advice and guidance on this would be much appreciated - thank you.

both std replies

all you need to do is file your defence regardless

plenty of threads here with the holding/no paperwork one here

have a go post it up here 1st mind

Right okay many thanks.....I've had a read through some of the other threads here and now have a good idea with regards to the Defence. However before I write this up and post here first, I have just this one question.

I note that many of these commence with the wording "The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature."

Now is my case, in part 2. of the Claim this is described as a "Credit Card" when in fact as per my original post, this was a draw down facility with a cheque book...there was no Card.

So with that in mind, is the sentence "The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature." sufficient?

Or, should I some how elaborate more on this cheque book/Credit Card aspect?

I guess what I'm saying,.....is that if the regular holding/no paperwork Defense as I've read in other threads, going to be okay [i hope] anyway, is it therefore best to just keep this simple and not draw attention to the cheque book/Credit Card part, if it's likely to just over complicate matters? Thanks again....

i think we'll let them trip over that brick when they try and do a witness statement if it ever gets that far IMHO.

that way they've wasted more money...

Thanks for the further advice on the cheque book/Credit Card part.........below is a 1st draft of my Defence for review. This has been copied and edited from another thread, that seems to be similar to my case. Further feedback and advice appreciated - thanks.

1.The Claimant is the assignee of a Marks and Spencer Financial Services Plc debt in the sum of £3900 assigned on X/X/2014. Statutory notices of assignment were sent to the defendant.

2.The debt is a Credit Card account first opened by the original creditor on or about X/X/1999 under reference XXXXXX.

The Defendant used the Credit facilities. On X/X/2007 the account defaulted with an outstanding balance of £4150.

3.The Claimant and it's predecessors in title demanded repayment of the sum due. In breach of contract the Defendant failed to repay the sums due.

AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS

1. The sum of £3750 -

2. Statutory INTEREST pursuant to S.69 County Courts Act 1984 at 8% per annum from X/X/2016 until Judgement or sooner.

1st Draft

1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of Claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

2. The Claim is denied with regards to an amount due under an agreement. Both the Claimant and Solicitor have been unable to disclose any agreement or statements on which this Claim relies upon.

3. The Defendant is unaware of any legal assignment the Claimant refers to within its particulars and deny the notice was served pursuant to the Law of Property Act 1925.

4. On receipt of this Claim the Defendant requested information pertaining to the Claim from XXXXXXX Solicitors by way of a CPR 31.14 request. This was posted Recorded Delivery on the 11th August 2017 and although the request was acknowledged by the Solicitor, no compliant response or the information requested has been received to-date.

5. The Defendant also requested information pertaining to this Claim from XXXXXX DCA by way of a Section 78 request. This was posted Recorded Delivery on the 11th August 2017 and although the request was acknowledged by the Claimant, no compliant response or the information requested has been received to-date.

6. Therefore with the Courts permission the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

(a) Show and disclose how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and

(b) Show and disclose how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed for;

© Show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a Claim;

7. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5, it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

8. On the alternative, if the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer crediticon Act 1974.

9. By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

I'd be grateful if the Defense above could be reviewed, as I need to submit this 1st September latest - many thanks.

Defence is mostly okay Chap apart from your point 2...requires a little work.

2. The Claim is denied with regards to an amount due under an agreement. Both the Claimant and Solicitor have been unable to disclose any agreement or statements on which this Claim relies upon.

What if they do disclose all the documents at the appropriate stage (After you submit your defence and the claim is allocated to your local county court) ?

Andy

Thank you Andyorc........well, as neither the Claimant or Solicitor have to date provided these documents and as I already state this in my 4. and 5., perhaps the current 2. could be deleted altogether apart from the first sentence, that could perhaps be added to the end to my existing 1. paragraph?

So 1. would then read as:-

1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of Claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. The Claim is denied with regards to an amount due under an agreement.

A Claimant is not at liberty to disclose anything pre defence...although the lack of response to your section 78 request is encouraging.

I always advise to get the court onside is to admit to once having a contractual relationship but ........

2. Paragraph 1 is noted and it is accepted insofar that I have once held a contractual relationship with Marks and Spencer Financial Services Plc . However I do not recollect the details nor am I aware of any outstanding balance that the claimant refers to and have therefore sought clarity from the claimant who have been unable to disclose any further details by way of a section 78 and CPR 31.14 request.

Right okay Andyorch, I think I understand this aspect now......so do I use the 2. paragraph as you have written here, or should I edit and change the "I" references to the "Defendant" as in the rest of the Defence? For example....."insofar that the Defendant once held a contractual relationship" etc.

Also in your 2. paragraph, should I change this to "do not recollect these details" instead of "do not recollect the details" - just a small thing, but perhaps just a hint at this cheque book/Credit Card aspect?

Finally, in my current 4. and 5. I use the term....."and although the request was acknowledged" - should I leave this in or take out, and instead just say " but no compliant response or the information requested has been received to-date."

Thanks again...

Just go with my 2...keep it as do not recollect the details...to insert " these " is bad English and as for 4/5 its fine as it is.

subscribing

Thanks for the clarification, the final draft as below. So I submit this at the MCOL website just as is, but with the specific details added....nothing else required - i.e. no copies of my letters to Claimant and Solicitor, proof of posting etc? Thanks

1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of Claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

2. Paragraph 1 is noted and it is accepted insofar that I have once held a contractual relationship with Marks and Spencer Financial Services Plc . However I do not recollect the details nor am I aware of any outstanding balance that the Claimant refers to and have therefore sought clarity from the Claimant who have been unable to disclose any further details by way of a Section 78 and CPR 31.14 request.

3. The Defendant is unaware of any legal assignment the Claimant refers to within its particulars and deny the notice was served pursuant to the Law of Property Act 1925.

4. On receipt of this Claim the Defendant requested information pertaining to the Claim from XXXXXXX Solicitors by way of a CPR 31.14 request. This was posted Recorded Delivery on the 11th August 2017 and although the request was acknowledged by the Solicitor, no compliant response or the information requested has been received to-date.

5. The Defendant also requested information pertaining to this Claim from XXXXXX DCA by way of a Section 78 request. This was posted Recorded Delivery on the 11th August 2017 and although the request was acknowledged by the Claimant, no compliant response or the information requested has been received to-date.

6. Therefore with the Courts permission the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

(a) Show and disclose how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and

(b) Show and disclose how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed for;

© Show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a Claim;

7. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5, it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

8. On the alternative, if the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer crediticon Act 1974.

9. By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

Yes thats fine.....and no you dont submit anything else with the initial defence...you cant anyway

I have now submitted the Defence at the MCOL website....

.your assistance with this has been very much appreciated and accordingly, I now made another Donation.

I assume just a matter of waiting now for the outcome

- perhaps some of the other threads would provide an indication of time scales?

33 days to respond and inform the court if they wish to proceed or the claim is stayed.

Many thanks for your further donation 65Chap

Regards

Andy