Hi,

I was wondering if this works the opposite way?

If you owe a bank in the UK can you be issued a Court Claim in Australia for the debt?

Sorry I'm very new to all this....i did see in my agreement in states

'The terms of the credit agreement are governed by English law and subject to the non-exclusive jurisdiction of the English courts'

Is this what it's referring too?

Yep.

Aussie courts are not as helpful to foreign creditors.

If you reside in Australia and are threatened with a court claim, get local debt advice.

Such threats are probably just that and they would never bother.

If you leave debts in the UK and mive abroad, always advise creditors of your foreign address to avoid a CCJ by default in your absence.

Much easier to transfer a UK CCJ to a foreign court.

Thank you so much for your reply UncleBulgaria67

if my bank is fully aware of me residing in Oz and therefore unable to issue a ccj,

they could still apply to the Australian courts to enforce repayment of my debt..?

my story is that i owe around £25k to one particular bank,

I also owe a few other debts to another bank and a store card but at a much lower amount.

The £25k is made up from a £8k credit card and a personal unsecured loan that was paid off over 5yrs and then was topped up leaving now £17k.

I have never missed payments until now.

3 months ago I came over to Oz to visit my mother who lives here,

she has been suffering from depression and I didn't know how bad it was until I came over.

I am a single parent of 3 and as my oldest had not long finished school and my 2 youngest are under 3 (big age gap lol)

we decided to come over for a few months holiday

but now the kids have actually settled here (they love it)

and my mum has her grandchildren

and is alot happier and hates the idea of us leaving

I've come to the conclusion that we are staying lol (why not! I'm dual nationality so have the right to live here)

really any money I have atm has to go to us setting up home and I just can't afford any of the repayments now without any income coming in.

I will be starting to look for part time work once we're properly settled as my mum will be watching the kids

(I don't think she could cope with full time) and then i will go into full time when they go off to school in a few years.

what I want to know is with that amount of debt is it more than likely they will apply to an Ozzy court if i stop repayments?

Or if they choose to sell to a debt collectors over here what then happens?

As I said I've 3 children in the household and need to make sure we're all safe and not going to be harassed...

Sorry this is all so new to me

, thank you for bearing with my story.

Any advice would be so greatly appreciated. Thank you x

UK banks or original creditors will never apply for a CCJ.

they'll flog it for 10p£1 to a fleecing DCA

they might well

theres no way you'll ever get done in AUS with a UK CCJ

so i'd go enjoy your new life.

simply write to each original creditor

from AUS

inform them you are now resident there and are not returning

you have no money nor any assets to date.

but might consider replayment from OZ when you get your delf/mum/the kids sorted.

end off

dont waffle

don't tell 'em too much

the point of the letter is they have been notified of your AUS address.

dx

Thank you dx

It sounds so simple...

I guess it's the not knowing what comes next that can drive a person crazy. It is a lot of money:!:

Jurisdiction and Proper Law

(1) This Agreement is governed by the law of England and Wales, and is subject to the exclusive jurisdiction of the courts of England and Wales.

or

(2) This Agreement is governed by the law of England and Wales, and is subject to the non-exclusive jurisdiction of the courts of England and Wales

What is a Jurisdiction and Proper Law clause?

This is the part of a contract where the parties agree on which legal system (from which country) applies to an agreement, and which court will hear a dispute that comes out of the agreement. Jurisdiction means, in very basic terms, the court that can be used to enforce the agreement or deal with a dispute under the agreement. Law means, simply, which law the court will apply (i.e., the law from a certain country).

In example (1), above, the law applied will the law of England and Wales, and any proceedings between the parties in connection to the contract must be brought only in the courts of England and Wales. That is, a party couldn’t go to a court in France to try to enforce the agreement, even if the French court used English law to interpret it.

In example (2), however, the law applied is still going to be the law of England and Wales, but it could be possible for a party to bring proceedings in a foreign court. This might be useful if one party would find it easier to bring an action in another country,rather than travel to England.

Thank you Andy.

So it is very possible for them to take me to court over here? Sorry if it seems if im repeating myself, I just want to know possible outcomes to my situation.

Depends if the agreement you signed has clause no 2 in it

I don't think I've ever seen that

They always have clause 1

Yes dx it does have clause no 2.

'The terms of the credit agreement are governed by English law and subject to the non-exclusive jurisdiction of the English courts'

I am very worried now...

Thank you Andy.

 

So it is very possible for them to take me to court over here? Sorry if it seems if im repeating myself, I just want to know possible outcomes to my situation.

Yes they could take you to court in Australia. There is a commonwealth debt agreement between UK and Australia. Australian courts will hear cases under English law, if your credit agreement does not restrict it to UK courts only. According to your first post, the agreement is non exclusive to UK courts, so can be subject to foreign court action, if the foreign court allows it.

BUT the more important question is whether it is likely. I very much doubt it. UK Banks have enough problems enforcing debts belonging to UK residents. What tends to happen is Banks go through their own debt collection for months or years. They then sell or assign the debt to UK debt collection agencies. These agencies might realise you have left the UK and you end up on a list of uncollectable debts. It might eventually end up being sold to an international debt company, but years later. By the time they get around to thinking about using an Australian company to bring proceedings there, it might be too late ( limitations act) or they decide it is not worth it.

Debt collection is not that efficient. What is possible, is not always likely.

Just remember to keep creditors informed of your latest address for reasons already mentioned above. At least they have no excuse not to write to you and you are aware of anything important.

The applicable law is this

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo5/23-24/13/contents

This would allow UK court judgements to be transfered to Australia. Hence why you don't want default CCJ's in your absence because you never formally told creditors you left the UK. Keep creditors informed of an Aussie address and make them use an Aussie court, if they are allowed to go direct to an Aussie court. Not sure they can, but you would need to get advice in the Aussie state where you reside if this was ever attempted.

Thank you again Uncle.

I have informed them im abroad as i was going to be away for a few months so now I just need to update them that I am remaining here permanently.

May i ask with them being aware I am no longer in the UK, would this not speed them up to just forwarding the debt straight to an Australian company or court? Does a Australian company have the right to take me to court because of the previous clause stated? And with regards to limitations act, would it be better to stop paying anything now or is it better to try give them a token to avoid court all together?

Sorry it just seems from old posts I've read it was...

Make creditor's aware of overseas address = no ccj

No ccj = unable to enforce debt abroad

Likely to sell on but dca in new country = no jurisdiction

But my situation seems to be different and I can't find any info relating to this anywhere else but this forum so thank you everybody for any info you have given or can give me regarding this.

***I have only just seen your last post, thank you for that. I will give it a read. If they go to a Australian court is it a ccj they will be seeking?

Thank you again Uncle.

 

I have informed them im abroad as i was going to be away for a few months so now I just need to update them that I am remaining here permanently.

 

May i ask with them being aware I am no longer in the UK, would this not speed them up to just forwarding the debt straight to an Australian company or court? Does a Australian company have the right to take me to court because of the previous clause stated? And with regards to limitations act, would it be better to stop paying anything now or is it better to try give them a token to avoid court all together?

 

Sorry it just seems from old posts I've read it was...

 

Make creditor's aware of overseas address = no ccj

No ccj = unable to enforce debt abroad

Likely to sell on but dca in new country = no jurisdiction

 

But my situation seems to be different and I can't find any info relating to this anywhere else but this forum so thank you everybody for any info you have given or can give me regarding this.

Banks are not very efficient enforcing debts. The have thousands of debts. They write off debts against tax, they sell them on eventually. It is just a numbers game.

You would think they would just pass to Lawyers in Australia, but it does not work that way. A Bank debt collector has no authority to start doing deals on collection with Aussie Lawyers. It would be a decision for someone higher up the ladder, but i doubt they take decisions on individual debts and are just interested in top level stats.

If a debt buyer was to ever issue a court claim in Aus, it would be years into the future and they would get an Aussie law/debt company to take it forward if they thought it was worth it. I can't remember reading of UK consumer debts being enforced in Aus.

If you have left the UK and need to secure your future in Aus, you might decide to stop paying. From a limitation act point of view, this makes sense, as making payments just extends possible enforcement further into tne future.

All the people i have come across on CAG with UK debts, have only had hassle from communications to their Aussie address and no court claims have ever been made against them.

Make any social media such as Facebook or Linkedin private and only advise the current original credtors know your Aussie address. There are some debt collection agencies abroad, who will use Facebook or Linkedin to try to embarrass people into contacting them, where they will hassle them into paying. They will try to avoid using court and use other tactics which would not be acceptable in the UK, such as phoning or faxing pla e of work found on social media.

I cant thank you enough uncle! You have been a great help x

Sorry one more question lol

They have my current Oz address but we are in the process of moving to somewhere bigger to accommodate everybody, is it ok to give them an Australian PO box number for correspondences?

Hello Rayar.

I'm glad the guys have been able to reassure you. Please keep posting with your questions if you need to.

If you want to thank anyone in particular, you can click on the little black star in the grey strip at the bottom of a relevant post and leave a short message.

HB

Thank you honeybee13, that is very reassuring.

I am sure all this great advice will help a lot more than just me

I expect you're right.

HB

Sorry one more question lol

 

They have my current Oz address but we are in the process of moving to somewhere bigger to accommodate everybody, is it ok to give them an Australian PO box number for correspondences?

Always provide a residential address, as a PO will be seem as an attempt to hide and you can't in a PO box.

Ok thank you, that makes sense.

I was wondering can any of this affect your credit score in Oz? I've always had a great score in the UK and would hope to build one up in Oz..

Ok thank you, that makes sense.

 

I was wondering can any of this affect your credit score in Oz? I've always had a great score in the UK and would hope to build one up in Oz..

Each country has a separate credit record, so UK record would not affect you.

The only potential issue is an Aussie Bank asking you to provide details of your UK history. If they did this, when you applied for say an mortgage, i would guess your UK record might not be helpful. But i have read that Aussie Banks are normally only interested in Aussie information e.g your Aussie Bank, Aussie employment. Australian Banks are currently lending excessively and property prices have increased more than many parts of the UK.

Thank you Uncle, that's good to know in regards to credit scores.

And I don't think i will be in a position to be able to afford to buy a property for a while, hopefully by then my debt would have become SB