Hi all,

I have recently moved to the Winterthur Way development in Basingstoke.

I rent a property which includes a parking space.

It wasn't until I moved into the flat that I was given a parking permit and told to use it when parking in my allocated space (This was something that was not mentioned in my tenancy agreement!).

After moving in I received 2 x £60 parking charge notices for using visitors spaces (Returning within a 48 hour period) to drop off my furniture.

I used the visitors space as I had to use a different car of a suitable size to drop the furniture off.

Also my space isn't near my flat its further up the road.

I kind of understood as I could have possibly been using a space that someone else could have been using, all be it for a very short period of time.

After paying these two charges from PPM I thought it was over !

Two weeks later as a result of having to pay £120 to PPM straight after moving in I had to do overtime at a weekend so I was able to pay next months rent.

The overtime meant staying away with work from the 8/07/2017 and returned on the 11/07/2017.

When I returned on the evening of the 11th I have been met with 2x PCN from PPM on my windscreen whilst I was parked in my own space.

Straight away as I approached the car I have seen my permit was not stuck to the top of my windscreen where it was before I left.

Both PCN's are for 'Not displaying a valid permit' one for 09/07/2017 & 10/07/2017.

I thought this surely wont be an issue I will just send them evidence of where the permit had fallen (A video from my phone was sent) also a picture of my valid permit.

After all it is my space and unlike the visitors spaces I could not have inconvenienced anyone as it is 'MY SPACE'.

They should just accept that and cancel the charges.

To my surprise I have an email from PPM stating my appeal has been rejected !

PPM is now giving me the option to appeal to the IAS but from my understanding I don't stand a chance appealing to them either?

I don't really have the cash to pay the 2 x £60 at a reduced rate.

Let alone £200 if the appeal to the IAS fails.

However I really do feel they can't do this.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

I understand I probably haven't included all the information you guys need to help but I am also not sure where to start.

I have included the response from PPM in a ZIP file with my name and REG edited out. Just let me know what you need and I will post it up !

Regards,

tissot

docs1.pdf

mug why did you blindly pay them....

your tenancy gives you supremacy of rights far greater than theirs over stupid speculative invoices which they haven't even probably got a contract with the LAND OWNERS to even issue or create contracts in their own name.

can you complete this please

one for each.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?462118-Have-you-received-a-Parking-Ticket

and go do a chargeback on the sums you've paid them.

I know and don't I feel like one !! I have never had to deal with anything like this so was blind sided by them into paying it.

Not until I have done a bit of research that I have realised I could have fought it.

I shall fill the details out as requested.

For a windscreen ticket (Notice To Driver) please answer the following questions....

1 The date of infringement?

- 09 & 10 July 2017

2 Have you yet appealed to the parking company yet? [Y/N?]

- Yes, they have rejected and I now have the option to appeal to the IAS

- Here is the appeal statement I sent them via their online appeals form (Sent on 11/07/2017).

"Due to the extreme heat on the 09/07/17 reaching 26 degrees Celsius and the car is in direct sunlight all day, the adhesive used for my permit has become unstuck and the permit has fallen off the window and down by the drivers seat of the car. I have not seen this as I have been away for work over the past few days. This is in fact my reserved space as I live in XXX and I do have a valid permit for space XXX. Please see attached video as proof. I can also provide proof of address and witness statements stating that this is my space. I have tried to attach evidence but it wouldn't send over this form. I have sent an email to XXXXXXXXX with the evidence, Under Subject 'PCN Appeal XXXXXX & XXXXXX'

has there been a response?

- Yes please see my first post I have attached PPM's response

Who is the parking company?

- Parking and Property Management Ltd

where exactly [Carpark name and town] did you park?

- Winterthur Way, Basingstoke

......................... ....

Is it even worth me trying to go through the IAS? Reading up on other threads there doesn't seem much point. However if I word the appeal correctly is there any chance of it getting thrown out?

Playing devils advocate here on your appeal

( I agree you shouldn't pay these bar stools.

Please provide evidence that the adhesive strip fails at the temperature you state.

Please explain under what regulations you must affix said ticket to a windscreen when you could of stuck it to the dashboard therefore alleviate it from falling!

Remember I'm playing devils advocate

Devils advocate is definitely a good idea.

Good question about the tape. I just assume this was the reason it fell as it was so damn hot! Truth be told I couldn't tell you what the manufacturer or type of tape it is. It was just in the draw! I now understand it was naive of me to assume this was the reason.

Point to note is that I used double sided tape as I remove it when I use the car as the Permit has my bloody address on it! So it couldn't be anything permanent. As I don't really want people to know where I live.

The sign says 'Vehicles must display a valid permit in the front windscreen at all times appropriate for the area in which you are parked'

So not stating specifically I have to affix it to the screen. I just followed what everyone else around me was doing.

Basically I now realise what I told them doesn't mean squat!

I just thought as I had a valid permit and it's my space I could easily get this cancelled.

Here is a picture of their sign if it helps at all!

IMG_20170616_155638.pdf

Dont know,i can't read or write your honour .

No contract can be formed as no meeting of the minds!!!!

doesn't wash as then they shouldnt be driving.

its a stupid thing to admit too

you don't need any excuse

your supremacy of contract overrides their claim..

doesn't wash as then they shouldnt be driving.

its a stupid thing to admit too

 

 

you don't need any excuse

your supremacy of contract overrides their claim..

Are you saying that people that cant read or write shouldn't drive???

to a degree - you must be able to understand road signs to pass the test

much like the eyesight requirement

but anyway

its totally immaterial.

supremacy of tenancy over rides their non exist parking contract.

Your right its immaterial

The interpretation of signs is not reading.

According to the gov website and department of transport..

Assistance will be given to those people who require it. This includes conditions such as dyslexia, those who struggle or cannot read and/or write and those who English is not their 1st language.

Assistance could be having a reader supplied for you, the test in your 1st language or extra time granted.

I ask you to retract your comment on people who cannot read or write shouldn't be driving.

I think you'll find your comment goes against equalities act and therefore forum rules.

The ability to interpret a sign is different than reading a painted banner saying village fete next sat

oh stop playing silly games on every thread you go on..

that's not what I said

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/taking-your-theory-test-if-you-have-special-requirements

Its not silly games

I dont care if your site admin

Your statement is wrong and goes against the equalities act and therefore site rules. Your comments have been reported but they'll prob go to your inbox for inspection....

Trying to make someone look at a problem from a different angle or throwing up a counter argument as a devils advocate is not " silly"

I think you need to look up the definition of "forum"

What it does is strengthens the posters argument and stops loop holes that the offending party could try to use....

I could possibly use that, can I just confirm I am literate and my first language is English, however as I didn't state that in my initial appeal to PPM I don't think I can change my story to the IAS.

I think best bet it trying to prove that they aren't legally allowed to give me a ticket!

I want to try my hardest to nip this in the bud at the IAS stage so I don't have to go down the route of gladdys then court. Which seems to be the common route for PPM!

I have attached the section on parking from my tenancy agreement, does this help at all?

that agreement nicely overrides their silly speculative invoices

sadly it wont matter what you sent to IAS

IAS are run by the same 2 that run gladdies, if you go read like threads.

dx

I haven't appealed to the IAS yet, what is my best course of action?

Appeal to IAS anyway with a statement that will hopefully scare them off and hope?

Just leave it and wait for the letters from gladdys?

Or try and write to the land owner/management company to see if they can get PPM off my back?

I don't suppose anyone could elaborate on 'Supremacy of Contract'?

What it means and how it works?

I can see it being mentioned in a few threads however cant find anything specifically on the subject.

Hello there.

Have you typed supremacy of contract into the Search CAG box at the top of this screen, in the maroon strip?

Or you could search for the same on the Parking Prankster's website.

HB

Parking Pranksters was most helpful, so correct me if I'm wrong as my rental 'Tenancy Agreement' does not state anything to do with parking permits this over rules their signs saying I'm entering into a contract with them?

I have also had a quick look for planning permission in my area and can't find anything to do with signage for parking?

Does a parking company need planning permission to put up signs on private land?

I have also had a quick look for planning permission in my area and can't find anything to do with signage for parking?

 

Does a parking company need planning permission to put up signs on private land?

Good point, tissot. Hopefully the guys will be along later.

HB

have you gotten that chargeback done yet for the one you blindly paid?

have you gotten that chargeback done yet for the one you blindly paid?

I have paid on two separate occasions for using visitors spaces as I didn't read the signs when I first moved in so slightly different circumstances.

Not sure how to proceed with a chargeback on those ones?

I didn't want to clog up this thread with that issue as well.

ring your card provider

tell them you had a valid parking permit

and that you were forced to pay under duress by a debt collection agency that rang you and said they take your car if you didn't pay

of which yo now know different and you've found you've been s.cammed

That simple? I shall try this tomorrow and let you know how I get on.

Would there be any sort of official process or fraud prevention measures taken meaning I have to show evidence of being [problem]med?

Now I see what the dot is about!

well you've got that

proof of tenancy and right to a parking spaced in your agreement end of.