Hi Caggers

Been a while since I last posted on here, but im hoping someone somewhere can give me some help/guidance regarding this matter.

My partner was recently given a FPN for a "littering" offence (while waiting for a train) OUTSIDE the curtilage of the station frontage (i.e. roof) - There ARE signs put up everywhere for Non-smoking but NONE for LITTERING - I have since checked.

My partner was "grabbed" by the Enforcement officer (3GS) (female) - and then straightaway read his rights before he was even told by the EO what my partner was being given a Fine for.. (disgusting i think)

I have since looked up the law they are using and the law is pretty clear when it comes to the act of "littering with intent" - which in this case there was no intent - it was accidental

The actual part of the law that im interested in is this:

Section 87 - Subsection (6) states:

"A local authority, with a view to promoting the abatement of litter, may take such steps as the authority think appropriate for making the effect of subsection (5) above known to the public in their area."

So, as I my understanding of the above law says - its down to the Local Authority to make sure that the local population ARE AWARE that they are taking steps to counter littering. I.e. by means of signs etc - I would have thought ?

If that is the case - there are NONE in the immediate vicinity.

Also - what powers do these EO's have? She "grabbed" my partner from behind while they were walking towards the station platform between the outside area where they were smoking and the interior where the barriers are. I thought they had no powers to "apprend" ??

Are they "allowed" to apprehend said suspect? I think not. I have again researched this and it would appear from the info that I found that they are only allowed to request name, address, postcode & age - NOTHING else. They have no powers of arrest at all - I've checked. So I believe the EO "overstepped" her powers here...

2 points -

1. the FPN states "cigarette" - whereas the law concerning littering only states "cigarette butts" as being litter - I know its a mute point but if my partner can get off on a technicality then so be it !

2. can my partner "counter claim" against the EO for "grabbing" him? i.e. can the EO be done for assault ?

The reason that we both have a problem about this is because down our road the pavements are often littered with crisp packets (non-biodegradable), plastic items (non-biodegradable) and other (non-biodegradable items). And the local council do nothing about it.

Cigarette butts ARE biodegradable however. They only contain paper & tobacco both natural products.

Can someone give me some guidance/help on this please?

We are thinking of letting this go to court and see if we can win the case. Especially on the grounds upon which the FPN was issued (wrongly in my opinion). I dont like the idea of our Local council running what essentially is a money making [problem] at the local populations expense !

I would be grateful for your feedback.

Many thanks

Muldy

They're not supposed to grab anyone under council policy, regarding the law it's a bit of a confusing area.

The way I look at it is that if an official suspect an offence and requests name and address, then the suspect tries to walk away, they can detain them until police arrives or they disclose their details.

I don't think you can make an allegation of assault, unless you have proof of it.

Is there any CCTV camera on that spot?

Regarding the FPN, if your partner was under the station shelter, most likely she was on station property (private), so the FPN is unenforceable.

You need to check with the land registry and if that bit of pavement is indeed station property, you can secure the CCTV (if present) to prove that they acted outside their jurisdiction.

You need to move fast though: CCTV footage is not kept indefinitely.

I have been approached by these low life individuals outside Ealing Broadway station for dropping a cig butt.

I pointed out to them that there are no bins in the vicinity because of roadworks and anyway, the pavement outside the station belongs to the station.

They were "good" enough to give me just a warning (don't understand what for considering that I was standing on private land).

They insisted on asking my name and address (probably to issue a FPN once in the office) but I told them to call the police as I wasn't giving it to them.

They moved on to the next victim who complied with their requests and coughed up.

Check who owns the land.

https://cse.google.co.uk/cse?cx=partner-pub-0964707606882478:652l7hswbgv&ie=UTF-8&q=butt&sa=Search+CAG#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=FPN%20butt

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?359987-FPN-for-litter

Hi King12345

Thanks for the reply...

Yes I thought as much with regard "apprehending" anyone. They have no more rights to "stop & detain" than you or me do.

They have no more powers other than advising that they will issue a FPN for littering etc. - thats the extent of their powers.

If they did want to "detain" someone then they would have to go find or call a Police officer to attend.

The area that im interested in is the lack of any SIGNS anywhere from the council making it clear of what will happen if someone "litters" in a public space.

Section 87 para (6) makes this very clear - thus:

"A local authority, with a view to promoting the abatement of litter, may take such steps as the authority think appropriate for making the effect of subsection (5) above known to the public in their area."

So...the local council have to "make it known to the public in the area"

So...how have they done this? Certainly not by SIGNS - there are none !!

My partner doesnt read the local newspapers - so thats a no go as well. And if it was on local news then thats not watched !

Also the local council brought these new scheme in 2016 !! my partner only moved to Brighton LAST year so would have only been on the news over 18 months ago so wouldnt have seen it anyway.

How local councils expect the local public to be mind-readers is beyond me !!

In answer to your queries:

1. Yes there are several CCTV cameras right on the spot where my partner got "grabbed" by the EO - BUT NONE where the alleged offence took place...unless the EO had a bodycam - which my partner isnt sure of...

2. The area where the alleged offence took place (pavement) is outside the curtilage of the station "canopy" so possibly may be owned by the council

3. Re station property - as I understand the law if someone were to "litter" on private property - as long as the council have been given permission by the Station to issue FPNs on their property then they may do so...so really depends on the Station if they have given that permission or not...

4. In order for the EO to issue a FPN they have to be certain there was "intent" to litter - NO INTENT - NO FPN to issue !!

To be honest the council is utilising the fact that most people DONT KNOW the law...so when they get clobbered by a an EO they think they have no rights & the EO baffles them with what they think the Law is (a watered down version that is)...this is their strength.

Thoughts please !

Muldy