I rang ACAS as I am so confused being told different things by advice on here and my HR manager in my new job

I haven't been told that I am being tupe'd across

I apologise for being confused. Thank you for advising me again

I rang ACAS as I am so confused being told different things by advice on here and my HR manager in my new job

 

I haven't been told that I am being tupe'd across

 

I apologise for being confused. Thank you for advising me again

I told her that was exactly what they had said to me but was now saying that I would need to apply to HMRC so she queried whether this would be the case for her and was told that everything that was promised under the former company still stands as all staff have been tupe'd across

 

Is this right? Are they allowed legally to not pay me even though I am still technically employed?!

You were the one who brought up the possibility of being TUPE'd across.

Find out what the situation is.

Then you can get focused advice and not be confused .....

Either way I can't see how ACAS can help ... who did you want them to conciliate with? The insolvent company??

Some links that may be of interest:

Your rights if your employer is insolvent: https://www.gov.uk/your-rights-if-your-employer-is-insolvent/overview

Redundancy payments: RP1 fact sheet: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/redundancy-payments-rp1-fact-sheet

Employment Law and Insolvency Proceedings: https://www.insolvencydirect.bis.gov.uk/technicalmanual/Ch73-84/Chapter76/part2/part_2.htm

Thank You

I have today received my P45 stating my leaving date of 18th May - no explanation or anything else with it, just 'here's your P45'

This P45 states I have been paid for 2 months this year but I only received pay for April

I know I will have to claim for any PILON but if the P45 says I have been paid for 2 months surely this means I should have been paid for May?

I know I will have to claim for any PILON but if the P45 says I have been paid for 2 months surely this means I should have been paid for May?

You can only claim the statutory PILON from the government scheme. Haven't you already had that paid?

You can try and claim any unpaid non-statutory sum from the insolvent company, but given it is insolvent don't expect any more than pennies in the pound, if anything.

I do know I can only claim from the government scheme and no I haven't claimed anything yet as still waiting on formal notification the company is actually insolvent

I have been paid 1 month instead of the 3 months PILON yet as I said, my P45 states I have had 2 months

I do know I can only claim from the government scheme and no I haven't claimed anything yet as still waiting on formal notification the company is actually insolvent

My point was more that there are limits to what you can claim from the government scheme.

Good luck, I'm out.

My point was more that there are limits to what you can claim from the government scheme.

 

Good luck, I'm out.

It would appear you have missed my whole point throughout all of this.

Thanks for wasting your time on me. You could have just not bothered rather than getting upset.

I am still none the wiser about my previous employers actions but please do not feel the need to respond.

You have not helped at all

read Sangies second post again

Hi all

Someone has just told me about this site and said it's the best place for advice

I wonder if anyone can help me please

The company I last worked at have just started liquidation proceedings. I was made redundant a month before this happened and so I have only received 1 months pay in lieu

My query is I've received a P45 from them but the pay to date figure states 2 months pay

They say their accountants said it's right as it's what I've earned - but I never received it and now I have to wait to see if there's any money to pay creditors who are beneficial into the continuity of the running of the business before I will get anything

Is this right?

I'm not 100% clear what you are saying here

- are you entitled to two months pay in lieu of notice,

or are you discussing gardening leave?

It is correct that if you are no longer an employee you do not enjoy the same protection from the redundancy payments service,

and so you are a simple creditor who may get some of their money,

but quite possibly not all of it (or none of it).

Hi

Thanks for getting back to me

I was told I would be entitled to 3 months in lieu of notice. I had only received 1 month (April) then I was told they were going into liquidation

I got my P45 of Friday and it has my leaving date as 31st May and pay to date states 2 months pay. I haven;t received 2 months money though so dont quite understand. Also the boxx said they went into liquidation on 1st June so I was wondering why I never got paid for May and why they have put i ton my P45 that I have?

Surely thats not right is it?

You need to separate out ;

a) what pay / PILON, and

b) what (if any) redundancy you are owed.

How long had you had 'continuous service' there?.

You should work out a) and b) for both :

i) what your contract with the firm says (which you might try and claim from the liquidator, but expect 'pennies in the pound' at most), as well as

ii) what you could claim from the government statutory scheme for insolvent companies (which may be a less generous allowance that your contractual entitlement, as you only get what statute allows : but at least you should get it paid in full, unlike the remaining contractual amounts!)

The thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?477718-Company-closed-will-I-get-my-redundancy

has some useful links. (I gave up advising there, as that OP wasn't listening to the advice offered by me or another poster : but the links are still relevant!)

Ok thanks that makes sense

PILON was 3 months according to my contract

Redundancy was 3 weeks (I am 43 and had just over 2 years continuous service)

I understand that I'm likely to get nothing from the liquidator and maybe (if I'm lucky, a little bit from the government scheme) but I am really not sure about this P45 they have issued me as the Gross Pay to Date figure is clearly incorrect. Just wonder if this legal?

You need to work out both the PILON and redundancy for BOTH the contractual amounts and the statutory amounts.

Then work out if what you have had exceeds the statutory amounts : if so you can't claim it from the statutory scheme (as you've already had it........ and can't claim it twice!), as the statutory scheme is where you'll stand more chance of actually getting anything.

If you've already been paid the statutory amount (working it out for each for redundancy and pay/PILON) then it isn't worth claiming that amount from the statutory scheme as it'll be declined. You can then go back to trying to claim the excess from the insolvent company (if you decide it is worth the effort given the limited likelihood of success).

Is this what you mean?

PILON should be 3 months @ £2500 gross = £7500

Redundancy should be 3 weeks @ £576.92 gross = £1730.76

Total = £9230.76

I've received £2500 gross

P45 states total pay to date £5000 gross

You still need to look at the limits of what you can claim under the statutory scheme, at which point you may find that looking into if the PILON you received was 1 month or 2 months is irrelevant.

For now focus on the 'time' you are owed / were paid, rather than the 'amount'. So "1 weeks worth" or "1 months worth' and so on, rather than an amount. Then (if need be), at the end, you can convert that into amounts, bearing in mind the limits (time and amounts) of the statutory scheme .......

I'd suggest creating a table, something along the lines of :

(CAG text posts makes tables trickier for me, so here's a pdf of an example)

Then you can reassess what you can claim, and from where, and decide if it is worth it for what you are then likely to receive from that source.

CA.pdf

Thanks for those I will have a go when I'm on a computer

I just don't get why they would put 2 months pay on my P45 when I've only received 1 month. Something smells fishy to me

is there a statutory PILON amount?

Scrap that, just found it. It's 1 week for each year worked

https://www.gov.uk/claim-loss-notice

Have a look at that previous thread, and the links therein. Its all in there.

Thank you for the pdf Bazza I've filled it in

Statutory Statutory Actually Paid Actually Paid Contractual Contractual

PILON Redundancy (If paid 1 month) (if paid 2 months) PILON Redundancy

576.92 479 2500 2500 2500 576.92

x weeks x weeks 1 month 2 months x months x weeks

2 3 1 2 3 3

1153.84 1437 2500 5000 7500 1730.76

Calculated

Statutory PILON and Contractual PILON total £8653.84

Statutory Redundancy and Contractual Redundancy total £3167.76

Received

PILON £2500.00

Does that make sense?

Ooo sorry, posted before I saw your answer.

Yes I will use that when I finally get a reference number. Cant do anything until then I know.

From what I can make out, even just the statutory payments total £2590.84 so cannot fathom why they would put £5000 on the P45

Thank you for the pdf Bazza I've filled it in

 

Statutory Statutory Actually Paid Actually Paid Contractual Contractual

PILON Redundancy (If paid 1 month) (if paid 2 months) PILON Redundancy

576.92 479 2500 2500 2500 576.92

x weeks x weeks 1 month 2 months x months x weeks

2 3 1 2 3 3

1153.84 1437 2500 5000 7500 1730.76

 

Calculated

Statutory PILON and Contractual PILON total £8653.84

Statutory Redundancy and Contractual Redundancy total £3167.76

 

Received

PILON £2500.00

 

Does that make sense?

As I said, tables are hard when posting in text on CAG.

The point you'll be able to see from that table is that your actual pay received (even 1 month or 2 months) exceeds the stat PILON (2 weeks), so no point in going for that from the stat scheme, as you'll get nowt extra.

You can still try and get it from the insolvent company, but don't hold out hope for anything at all, or more than pennies in the pound, (for contractual PILON or contractual redundancy).

However, if you were entitled to redundancy (had you resigned, or were you made redundant?), if you haven't been paid redundancy from the firm, you can claim that from the statutory scheme (3 weeks worth). If you get that 3 weeks worth from the scheme, you should get all that you are owed, within that scheme's limits so you don't have to risk getting pennies in the pound from the company (for that, limited, statutory sum).

It is easier to see what you can get, and where, from the table. You claim what you can from the statutory scheme, as it pays out (guaranteed recovery as it is government funded, but often less than your contractual entitlement as it has different, statutory, limits that can be less than your contractual entitlement), and then decide if you want to try to claim any extra you (that you are entitled to claim but only MIGHT get paid, as the company is insolvent), claiming from the company .....

what you haven't yet included is the limit (per week) reclaimable from the government scheme.

https://www.gov.uk/your-rights-if-your-employer-is-insolvent/claiming-money-owed-to-you

You've already had more than 2 weeks PILON paid, so forget about PILON from the statutory scheme. Up to you if you want to try and get something from the liquidator for any outstanding Contractual PILON.

If you are entitled to redundancy : claim from the stat scheme for the redundancy you can get there (£479/week x 3 weeks).

Up to you if you want to try and get something from the liquidator for any outstanding Contractual Redundancy left owing after you've recovered some from the statutory scheme.

Yeah I pretty much gathered I would get sweet FA from the company.

Its good to know I can claim statutory notice though. Thank you for that

I'm worried that the figure they have put on the P45 would bugger up any claim

Am I focusing on this too much?

Yeah I pretty much gathered I would get sweet FA from the company.

Its good to know I can claim statutory notice though. Thank you for that

You can't.

You've had more already paid to you by the company than you could claim for statutory notice. You won't get anything for statutory notice pay.

I phrased this previously as:

The point you'll be able to see from that table is that your actual pay received (even 1 month or 2 months) exceeds the stat PILON (2 weeks), so no point in going for that from the stat scheme, as you'll get nowt extra.

 

..........

 

You've already had more than 2 weeks PILON paid, so forget about PILON from the statutory scheme.

I'm worried that the figure they have put on the P45 would bugger up any claim

 

Am I focusing on this too much?

Probably.

It won't make a difference to Stat PILON : you won't get that

It won't make a difference to Stat redundancy : you should get that.

It might make a difference to contractual PILON but it will be at best marginal (if anything!) due to 'pennies in the pound'.