Marc Gander - The Consumer Survival Handbook


A 220 page introduction to all things consumer related by our own BankFodder.

Includes energy companies, mobile phone providers, retailers, banks, insurance companies,debt collection agencies, reclaim companies, secondhand car sellers, cowboy garages, cowboy builders and all the rest who put their own profits before you.

£6.99



Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

£19.99 + £1.50 (P&P)


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  1. #61

    Default Re: Amazon faulty laptop from USA - issing court claim under CRA

    Quote Originally Posted by Andyorch View Post
    If you submitted through MCOL Northampton...simply state the claim number in your application and as follows....

    Complete the N244 application noticeicon, with appropriate Court fee

    ask for the Defendant's name to be amended, and
    re-service of the claim formicon to be dispensed with at it was validly served at the correct address, and
    ask for it ex parte (without a hearing)
    On the front of the application noticeicon type in the box asking what order you are seeking: "The Claimant respectfully requests that the Defendant's name be amended pursuant to CPR 17.1.(2) (b) an re-service of the Claim Form be dispensed with."

    On the second page insert:

    A claim was issued against the Defendant on XX/XX/XXXX in the XXXXXXX county courticon under claim number XXXXXXX for the recovery of monies owed.
    Since that date the Defendant has changed their name and it is therefore incorrect on the Claim Form.
    Therefore, the Claimant respectfully requests that the Claim Form be amended so that the Defendant's name reads "XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX" pursuant to CPR 17.1 (2)(b). An amended copy of the Claim Form is included in this application.

    We respectfully request that the need for re-service of the amended Claim Form be dispensed with as the claim form was validly served on the Defendant's address.
    Did you do the above ?

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  2. #62
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    Default Re: Amazon faulty laptop from USA - issing court claim under CRA

    Hi Andy,

    Yes that was done a long while ago and the application was successful.

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  3. #63

    Default Re: Amazon faulty laptop from USA - issing court claim under CRA

    Okay......

    So what are they referring to in the statement about the wrong name ?

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  4. #64
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    Default Re: Amazon faulty laptop from USA - issing court claim under CRA

    This was an order placed on their website, but was for an Amazonicon Marketplace item. Amazon believe they are not responsible and that I should be claiming against the seller. The problem is they allowed the seller to masquerade as a UK company with the name "HIDevolution UK" but no such company exists. I later found this was a US company where CRAicon 2015 doesn't have jurisdiction. So I claimed against Amazon for allowing a contract of sale to be misrepresented and for failure to apply their own policies.

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  5. #65

    Default Re: Amazon faulty laptop from USA - issing court claim under CRA

    Right Im with you...so they proceed to acknowledge service and submit a defence and now submit a witness statement denying any involvement but not offering any evidence in support of their defence.

    If they are to be believed and hope a court will go along with their defence...as they being the wrong entity..the normal process would have been to make application to strike out your claim on those grounds and request summary judgment against you.......and yet they have failed to do this ...mmmmm?

    I will run through your thread tomorrow with fresh eyes .


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  6. #66
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    Default Re: Amazon faulty laptop from USA - issing court claim under CRA

    The hearing for this Tuesday has been vacated and rescheduled for 11th September 2018 due to Judicial Availability...

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  7. #67

    Default Re: Amazon faulty laptop from USA - issing court claim under CRA

    Responding to your PM NS

    Have you received anything further from the court or defendant since your last posting ?

    Andy

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  8. #68
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Andyorch View Post
    Responding to your PM NS

    Have you received anything further from the court or defendant since your last posting ?

    Andy
    Hi Andy,

    No I haven't. I called the court on Friday to make sure the case was still going ahead as it was vacated at the last minute in July and I was advised it was still going ahead.

    No correspondence from Amazonicon or their solicitors either


  9. #69

    Default Re: Amazon faulty laptop from USA - issing court claim under CRA

    Simply be prepared then and have all your documents to hand and ready to refer to.....there is nothing further to add advice wise.

    Best of luck...let us know how you get on...good or bad.


    Andy

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  10. #70
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    Default Re: Amazon faulty laptop from USA - issing court claim under CRA

    Update on this. The case was dismissed on a contractual law point that Amazonicon was not a party to the contract.

    I'm slightly disappointed that the conduct of Amazon by not responding to the Orders and pre action protocolicon was not mentioned. The Solicitor who wrote the witness statement did not attend but this was not raised either.

    However the judge did offer some remarks in her judgement. She believed that any replacement item supplied by a market place seller would reset the 90 day clock for the Amazon A-Z guarentee. She also thought that although the seller was pretending to be a UK company that she was unable to do much about this. She was also "frustrated for the claimant" that this whole event has happened and various misunderstandings took place. Then went on to reassure me that I could not have done more.

    Moving forward the judge advised me that I should file proceedings against HI Devolution, the market place seller themselves. She believes as I am in the UK, as they were selling goods on a UK website and pretending to be a UK company, that they accepted jurisdiction of UK Law.

    So I have today sent of another lbaicon to HI Devolution and also emailed them a copy on their ticket system. I doubt I'll get a reply. I have also contacted Amazon again and requested what terms and conditions the seller is bound by and whether they have accepted UK Jurisdiction in their agreements or not.

    On a side note I do want to sau I thought that Salisbury Law Courts accommodated my disability perfectly, they could not have been more helpful. The Judge requested that the Usher show me the inside of the court room and explain the process before the start of the hearing. Also showed me where the toilets were. The Usher also asked if she wanted me to sit in and act as a "go between" incase I needed to excuse myself from the room. I declined this. During the hearing which went on for about 90 minutes, I needed to excuse myself 50 minutes in and it was as if nothing happened.

    Amazon also did not seek any costs.

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  11. #71

    Default Re: Amazon faulty laptop from USA - issing court claim under CRA

    Frustrated with the claimant ? Surely defendant.

    Andy

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  12. #72

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nuclearshark View Post
    She was also "frustrated for the claimant" that this whole event has happened and various misunderstandings took place. Then went on to reassure me that I could not have done more.
    Quote Originally Posted by Andyorch View Post
    Frustrated with the claimant ? Surely defendant.

    Andy
    "frustrated for the claimant". So, “for” : claimant is correct


  13. #73
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    Default Re: Amazon faulty laptop from USA - issing court claim under CRA

    BazzaS is correct.

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  14. #74
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    Default Re: Amazon faulty laptop from USA - issing court claim under CRA

    I've had an email from the distributor this afternoon. They are willing to pay the delivery fee of £91.10 but are now expecting any repairs to be paid for as the product is out of warranty.

    They also stated that physical damage and defects are not covered under any warranty at all whether expired or not.

    I wrote to them and gave them 14 days to respond, but as they have now responded in an unsatisfactory manner (Saw that coming!) could I fire off the claim before those 14 days are up? Or is it best to wait until then?

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  15. #75
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    Default Re: Amazon faulty laptop from USA - issing court claim under CRA

    How did you get on?


  16. #76
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    Default Re: Amazon faulty laptop from USA - issing court claim under CRA

    I hadn't updated this thread as there is still a lack of progress with this. However I can give the following updates and explain the processes I've gone through to get to where I am today.

    I allowed their technical support to troubleshoot some of the issues I was having, but sadly this didn't help and has created new problems that didn't exist. The agent meant to call me back but did not. Apparently he left a voicemail which I find odd as my mobile SIM has that function disabled as I got tired of PPI voicemails.

    In the end I got fedup as I hadn't received a promised payment or the replacement SSD drive so I started an N1 Claim Form against them out of jurisdiction. I filed the papers with Salford along with a new Help with Fees application.

    To do this I needed to complete Form N1 and Form N510 to file against a USA Company. Because the contracts both parties agreed to specify Luxemburg or UK Courts then my understanding is that the claim can be served without the need to request permission of the court. To do this one uses the N510 form and serves this along with the N1 form to Salford.

    For anyone doing this you need to include an extra copy for every claim form you complete. So if there is 1 claimant and 1 defendant, then you include 3 forms. 1 for the Court File, 1 for the Defendants and 1 for your file.

    When completing the N510 there were 2 options but I went with:
    In proceedings to which CPR 6.33(2)(a) and 6.33(2)(b)(ii) apply, the statement is:
    (a) no proceedings between the parties concerning the same claim are pending in the courts of any other part of the United Kingdom or any other Member State; and
    (b) the defendant is not a consumer, but is a party to a consumer contract within article 17 of the said Regulation.”
    Signed and dated it.

    The court then returned the forms to me stamped and completed and advised me I needed to serve these on the defendant myself. I sent them their copy by Royal Mail Tracked and Signed for and they received these on the 19/11/2018. As they arrived at 10:44 which is before 16:30 they are classed as served the same day. As the defendant is outside of jurisdiction they are allowed 21 days to file an Acknowledgement of Service.

    Since they have received these forms they have paid out £91.10 and sent a new 2TB SSD but refuse to do anything further to assist other than technical support. This isn't going to fix the casing crack that has appeared nor the shockingly poor battery life. I have since taken the machine to an independent IT provider (I used to work as an IT Manager but wanted someone elses input) who agreed the crack had not occurred as a result of the machine being dropped and was likely caused by fatigue in the plastic moulding itself.

    Needless to say I requested judgment but as they are outside the of jurisdiction the court advised me I needed to file an N225, N215 and N244icon to request the judgement. The N225 is basically the request for judgement. The N215 is the proof of service. I also included the tracking number on the form and a printout of delivery from USPS. The N244icon is an application that costs £100 to request the court issue judgment. A separate Help with Fees application is also required. This can be done online and the application number written into a box on the form.

    Currently I am waiting for the Court to issue judgment but I doubt I'll get this before the new year.

    Once I have judgement I then make an EJ-115 application to the Courts of California to have the judgment recognised by the California Courts. Whilst the company claim they have responded to the claim, the court denies this. Either way this will come to a hearing whether in the USA or the UK. I'm travelling to Canada in February and my intention is to time case this along with those plans and I don't think they are expecting this.

    They can oppose the EJ-115 application but having looked at the form and into Case Law I doubt they will get very far. But US Law is a very tricky thing to understand so I might need to consider an Attorney in the USA. I'm not sure on that bit yet as I'd like to keep this as much as Litigant in Person as possible.

    http://www.courts.ca.gov/documents/ej115.pdf
    How to Object: (a) Any objection to the recognition and entry of the tribal court money judgment shall be served and filed within 30
    days of service of the notice of filing. If any objection is filed within this time period, the superior court shall set a time period for replies and
    set the matter for a hearing. The hearing shall be held by the superior court within 45 days from the date the objection is filed unless good
    cause exists for a later hearing. The only grounds for objecting to the recognition or enforcement of a tribal court money judgment are the
    grounds set forth in subdivisions (b) and (c).

    (b) A tribal court money judgment shall not be recognized and entered if the respondent demonstrates to the superior court that at least one
    of the following occurred:
    (1) The tribal court did not have personal jurisdiction over the respondent. -
    This is the Terms and Conditions the seller agreed to, which reference EU Courts so Jurisdiction is givenhttps://sellercentral.amazon.co.uk/g...cont_201190440
    (2) The tribal court did not have jurisdiction over the subject matter.
    See annotation above as Jurisdiction over the subject matter is proved.

    (3) The judgment was rendered under a judicial system that does not provide impartial tribunals or
    procedures compatible with the requirements of due process of law.
    If anything I would have thought that UK small claimsicon Courts could be seen as a fairer venue than California small claimsicon Courts. Having read about Small Claims Courts you generally cannot have an Attorney present you case, whereas in the UK you can...

    (c) The superior court may, in its discretion, decline to recognize and enter a tribal court money judgment on any one of the following
    grounds:
    (1) The defendant in the proceeding in the tribal court did not receive notice of the proceeding in sufficient time to enable the
    defendant to defend.
    They had 21 days to acknowledge and a further 2 weeks to defend... 5 weeks total, more than 1 month.
    (2) The judgment was obtained by fraud that deprived the losing party of an adequate opportunity to present its case.
    Not relevant to this case. Pre Action Protocol was followed to the letter.
    (3) The judgment or the cause of action or claim for relief on which the judgment is based is repugnant to the public policy of the state or of the
    United States.
    N/A
    (4) The judgment conflicts with another final and conclusive judgment.
    N/A
    (5) The proceeding in the tribal court was contrary to an agreement between the parties under which the dispute in question was to be determined otherwise than by proceedings in that tribal court.
    N/A
    (6) In the case of jurisdiction based on personal service only, the tribal court was a seriously inconvenient forum for the trial of the action.
    Now they could argue this. But they also agreed to submit to jurisdiction of EU Courts in their terms and conditions. However I could reasonably argue that the defendants are a Company and being a consumer that a trial in the USA was a seriously inconvenient venue. I could further argue that they could have hired a Solicitor to defend a hearing in the UK if they wished.
    (7) The judgment was rendered under circumstances that raise substantial doubt about the integrity of the rendering court with respect to the
    judgment.
    N/A
    (8) The specific proceeding in the tribal court leading to the judgment was not compatible with the requirements of due process of
    law.
    N/A
    (9) The judgment includes recovery for a claim of defamation, unless the court determines that the defamation law applied by the tribal
    court provided at least as much protection for freedom of speech and the press as provided by both the United States and California
    Constitutions.
    Not applicable to this case.
    (d) If objections have been timely filed, the applicant has the burden of establishing that the tribal court money judgment is entitled to
    recognition. If the applicant has met its burden, a party resisting recognition of the tribal court money judgment has the burden of establishing
    that a ground for nonrecognition exists pursuant to subdivisions (b) or (c).
    Again I believe I can prove this beyond any reasonable doubts with just some of the arguments above.
    I also checked with the California Courts about Help with Fees applications and they believe I would be elidable to apply out of Country as my income is below their threshold after currency conversion. So while the company may appeal this application in the hope I don't continue because of the fees, they are mistaken as it's only going to cost me time and effort at the end of the day.

    I also recently offered to waive all interest accrued to bring the matter to a close. They declined the offer.

    I think that covers everything so far, just to summarise I am now waiting for the Judgement certificate before pursuing this in the USA Courts. I'll ask again for payment before doing this but I doubt I'll get anywhere. Once I have filed an EJ-115 I'll update this thread.


    If anyone would like to see my PoC's or any of the forms I've completed then please do let me know as I'm happy to provide them minus personal details etc.

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