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    • This is the other sign  parking sign 1a.pdf
    • 4 means that they need to name and then tell the people who will be affected that there has been an application made, what the application relates to (specificially "whether it relates to the exercise of the court’s jurisdiction in relation to P’s property and affairs, or P’s personal welfare, or to both) and what this application contains (i.e what order they want made as a result of it) 5 just means that teh court think it is important that the relevant people are notified 7 means that the court need more information to make the application, hence they have then made the order of paragraph 1 which requires the applicant to do more - this means the court can't make a decision with the current information, and need more, hence paragraph one of the order is for the applicant to do more. paragraph 3 of the order gives you the ability to have it set aside, although if it was made in january you are very late. Were you notiifed of the application or not?    
    • These are the photos of the signs. At the entrance there is a 7h free sign. On some bays there is a permit sign.  Also their official website is misleading as it implies all parking is free.  I can't be certain of the exact parking bay I was in that day, and there was no PCN ticket on my car and no other evidence was provided.  parking sign 2.pdf
    • Hi, In my last post I mentioned I had received an email from SS who were asking me to hand over the keys to my mother’s flat so they could pass them to the Law firm who have been appointed court of protection to access, secure and insure my mother’s property.  Feeling this, all quickly getting out of my hands I emailed ss requesting proof of this. I HAVEN’T HEARD BACK FROM SS.  Yesterday, I received an email (with attached court of protection order) from the Law Firm confirming this was correct (please see below a copy of this).  After reading the court of protection order I do have some concerns about it:   (a)   I only found out yesterday, the Law firm had been appointed by the court back in January.  Up until now, I have not received any notification regarding this.  (b)   Section 2   - States I am estranged from my mother.  This is NOT CORRECT    The only reason I stepped back from my mother was to protect myself from the guy (groomer) who had befriended her & was very aggressive towards me & because of my mother’s dementia she had become aggressive also.  I constantly tried to warned SS about this guy's manipulative behaviour towards my mother and his increasing aggressiveness towards me (as mentioned in previous posts).  Each time I was ignored.  Instead, SS encouraged his involvement with my mother – including him in her care plans and mental health assessments.   I was literally pushed out because I feared him and my mother’s increasing aggression towards me. Up until I stepped back, I had always looked after my mother and since her admission to the care home, I visit regularly.   .(c)    Sections -  4, 5 and 7  I am struggling to understand these as I don’t have a legal background.  I was wondering if there is anyone who might be able to explain what they mean.  It’s been a horrendous situation where I had to walk away from my mother at her most vulnerable because of; ss (not helping), scammer and groomer. I have no legal background, nor experience in highly manipulative people or an understanding of how the SS system operates, finding myself isolated, scared and powerless to the point I haven’t collected my personal belongings and items for my mother’s room in the care home.  Sadly, the court has only had heard one version of this story SS’s, and based their decision on that. My mother’s situation and the experience I have gone through could happen to anyone who has a vulnerable parent.    If anyone any thoughts on this much appreciated.  Thank you. ______________________________________________________  (Below is the Court of Protection Order)  COURT OF PROTECTION                                                                                                                                                                                   No xxx  MENTAL CAPACITY ACT 2005 In the matter of Name xxx ORDER Made by  Depty District Judge At xxx Made on xxx Issued on 18 January 2024  WHEREAS  1.     xxx Solicitors, Address xxx  ("Applicant”) has applied for an order under the Mental Capacity Act 2005.  2.     The Court notes (my mother) is said to be estranged from all her three children and only one, (me) has been notified.  3.     (Me) was previously appointed as Atorney for Property and Affairs for (my mother).  The Exhibity NAJ at (date) refers to (me) and all replacement Attorneys are now officially standing down.  4.     Pursuant to Rule 9.10 of the Court of Protection Rules 2017 and Practice Direction 9B the Applicant 2must seek to identify at least three persons who are likely to have an interest in being notified that an application has been issues.”  The children of (my mother), and any other appointed attorneys are likely to have an interest in the application, because of the nature of relationship to (my mother).  5.     The Court considers that the notification requirements are an important safeguard for the person in respect of whom an order is sought.  6.     The Court notes that it is said that the local authority no longer has access to (my mother’s) Property.  7.     Further information is required for the Court to determine the application.  IT IS ORDERED THAT  Within 28 days of the issue date this order, the Applicant shall file a form COP24 witness statement confirming that the other children of (my mother) and any replacement attorneys have been notified of the application and shall confirm their name, address, and date upon which those persons were notified.  If the Applicant wishes the Court to dispense with any further notification, they should file a COP9 and COP24 explaining, what steps (if any) have been taken to attempt notification and why notification should be dispensed with.   Pending the determination of the application to appoint a deputy for (my mother), the Applicant is authorised to take such steps as are proportionate and necessary to access, secure and insure the house and property of (my mother).   This order was made without a hearing and without notice.  Any person affected by this order may apply within 21 days of the date on which the order was served to have the order set aside or varied pursuant to Rule 13.4 of the Court of Protection Rules 2017 (“the Rules”).  Such application must be made on Form COP9 and in accordance with Part 10 Rules.              
    • Unless I've got an incorrect copy of the relevant regulation: The PCN is only deemed to have arrived two days after dispatch "unless the contrary is proved" in which case date of delivery does matter (not just date of posting) and I would like clarification of the required standard of proof. It seems perhaps this hasn't been tested. Since post is now barcoded for the Post Office's own tracking purposes perhaps there is some way I can get that evidence from the Post Office...
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CEL ANPR PCN claimform - Alexandra Retail Centre Tunstall Stoke On Trent


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Hi My daughter has received a "Speculative Invoice" from Civil Enforcement Ltd.

 

I have seen somewhere about rules for the protection of freedoms act and have sent an email today to the DVLA to see when her details were requested and confirmation of who requested it.

 

Once i get this information where do we go from there?

 

The parking notice does not mention POFA at all. Are they required to mention it?

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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1 Date of the infringement 05/04/17

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 03/05/17

 

3 Date received 05/05/17

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [y/n?] No

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes

 

6 Have you appealed? {y/n?] post up you appeal] Not Yet

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up

 

7 Who is the parking company? Civil Enforcement ltd

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Alexandra Retail Centre Tunstall Stoke On Trent

 

they use the BPA Appeals process

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Regarding 2. That timeframe only applies for anpr. It's a lot longer for regular windscreen tickets

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

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Hi

I am assuming this is an ANPR ticket because if it was a windscreen ticket, the NTK is too early

 

As it is an ANPR, they are out of time so ignoring is probably the better option. To make sure, can you post up all documentation ensuring you obscure all personal details, PCN number, Reg number but leave the times and dates of 'offence' viewable

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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typical CEL.

They have never really considered the law as being applicable to them,

whether that be contract law,

consumer law,

company law as far as naming those who have a controlling interest in their company, theft act etc.

 

I would wait for them to write again as the NTK is timed out and then tell them to sod off as they havent obeyed the protocols of the POFA.

 

When you find out WHEN they accessed the keeper details youi may have a claim for a breach of the DPA and a ccomplaint to the DVLA on this point wouild be worth making.

 

 

Let us know the date of their accessing the data when you have it.

 

I suspect that their next step will be a letter from Debt Recovery Plus

because CEL know they are out of luck but hope that you confuse a no-hope organisation dca with a HCEO

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the NTK should have 2 photos entry and leave if its ANPR and say ANPR.

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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yes it has 2 photos - entry and exit, cant get a copy as yet as it is at my daughters house, but will try and get it a.s.a.p. and the photo she sent me isn't that good.

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Please get that letter, redact all personal identifiers, and post it up in full.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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OK Here is the PCN, No reply from DVLA as yet

pcn.pdf

HTH (Hope This Helps) RDM2006

 

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As it's within the time to appeal, I'd be tempted to do so. Which has the added bonus of wasting some of CEL's money! laugh.png

 

Something along the lines of..

 

CEL.

 

Ref: PCN number:

Vehicle Index:

 

As the vehicle keeper, I would like to invoke your appeals procedure because your invoice was received on a Friday and I only pay invoices that are received on a Monday.

 

 

Unlucky! Please issue me with a valid POPLA code.

 

Recorded Keeper

 

 

Nothing more, nothing less. Send it as a letter (not email) and get a free certificate of posting from the post office.

 

When they do issue you a Hoopla code, you do a full appeal to Hoopla on the out of time, no keeper liability grounds. We'll be happy to guide you through that. CEL are, at that point, completely stuffed.

 

CEL already know that they're stuffed, they're just hoping that you don't wink.png

 

This is regardless of any result from the DVLA as that may form the basis of a separate complaint.

 

Can we also see the other side of that PCN/NTK please.

 

 

There is some important wording that they must include on it for it to be valid, it's not on the front, so we need to see if it's on the back. Ta thumbup.gif

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.
In fact, they're probably just waffling and can be quite safely and completely ignored as you wish.

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agreee,

what you can read on the first page is nothing that complies with the POFA or the BPA CoP

no it is worthless to them as an NTK.

 

When the time comes I would question the veracity of the images as usually you get a picture or the car entering and a picture of the car leaving so front and back number plates get read.

 

This is 2 front pictures and the road markings dont tie up

so could be random pictures from anywhere rather than a paired set.

 

She should go back there and photograph the entrance herself along with the sigange visible from the public highway.

 

Also note the site and direction of the cameras and that little sign her car is passing,

note where it is in relation to the highway etc

so direction of travel can be properly determined.

 

As said, CEL are the least honest of all the parking companies.

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The reverse is blank

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Yet another CEL fail then. doh.gif

 

Just get that appeal off to them in the post then, so that they can hurry up and reject it and give you your HOOPLA code thumbup.gif

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.
In fact, they're probably just waffling and can be quite safely and completely ignored as you wish.

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There is some important wording that they must include on it for it to be valid, it's not on the front, so we need to see if it's on the back.

 

What information is missing please as i can quote this once it gets to POPLA stage?

HTH (Hope This Helps) RDM2006

 

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it wont get you anywhere at POPLA,

they are not allowed to consider anything the BPA doesnt let them consider.

 

Better off getting her to write back to CEL with a short letter saying

 

 

"Ashley, I am not falling for your con, go screw yourself or take the matter to court at your earliest opportunity where YET AGAIN the law regarding keeper liability will be explained to you at your own expense"

 

Dont bother being nice, it wont get you anywhere

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Just for curiosity then. what info is missing?

HTH (Hope This Helps) RDM2006

 

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Just for curiosity then. what info is missing?

 

It's not just things that are missing, but other things that they've badly worded or 'hidden away' on the page as well.

 

 

The Notice which is to be relied upon to be a Notice to Keeper is compliant only if the following requirements are met.

 

Inform the keeper that the driver is required to pay the parking charge (POFA 2012. Sch 4. Section 9 (2)(b)). Whilst this information might be there, it's hidden away in the small print at the bottom and does not make it clear.

 

The notice does not state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service and states that the keeper is "required" to pay the charge rather than "inviting" the keeper to do so. (POFA 2012. Sch 4. Section 9 (2)(e))

 

It does not warn the keeper as per POFA 2012 of the consequences if the amount remains unpaid after 28 days. (POFA 2012. Sch 4. Section 9 (2)(f)). What is there doesn't meet those requirements.

 

The NTK is also confusing in as much as the notice states both that "failing to pay the amount due within 28 days" and that "you have 28 to appeal" and misleading in that "POPLA will not consider appeals that have not been sent to them (us) first". This is misleading in as much as while you do need to appeal to the PPC first (to get a POPLA code) you do not have to appeal to POPLA on the same grounds as your appeal to the PPC.

 

Although the notice does name the creditor and their registered office address, it doesn't really make this information clear. I certainly missed it the first time that I looked at the NTK. (POFA 2012. Sch 4. Section 9 (2)(h))

 

It also falls foul of the POFA in relation to (POFA 2012. Sch 4. Section 9 (5)) in that it did not arrive within the relevant period (14 days from the day following the parking event), they've even printed this on the NTK themselves.

 

And finally from me, and only the DVLA would be able to confirm this, but looking at the date of issue of the NTK, I'd put money on a breach of (POFA 2012. Sch 4. Section 11 (1)(b)).

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.
In fact, they're probably just waffling and can be quite safely and completely ignored as you wish.

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Had reply today from the DVLA they requested the info on the 28th April. little bit late :lol:

 

Appeal sent waiting for popla code now

HTH (Hope This Helps) RDM2006

 

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All advice and opinions given by people on this site are personal, and are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, please seek qualified professional legal Help.

 

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Had reply today from the DVLA they requested the info on the 28th April. little bit late :lol:

 

Appeal sent waiting for popla code now

 

If they've got any sense, they'll just accept your appeal, no matter what you've written (yeah right!). Anything else is just going to be them throwing money down the drain.

 

But, I'd expect the usual from the PPC. They'll (try to) tell you that the NTK was issued correctly and in line with the Code of Practice for AOS members and that "after careful consideration" they have decided to reject your appeal. Anyone else smell cows?

 

 

As they had no reasonable cause to request your data from the DVLA, there's also a complaint there waiting to happen to the BPA (for breach of the AOS CoP), the DVLA (for their breach of the KADOE contract), the ICO (for the breach of the DPA against both the PPC & the DVLA) and a potential court claim for your Daughter against the PPC for the misuse of her personal data.

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.
In fact, they're probably just waffling and can be quite safely and completely ignored as you wish.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well Surprise, Surprise, the appeal was unsuccessful.

 

Is there a standard letter for a POPLA appeal when they didnt request the info from the DVLA within the correct time

HTH (Hope This Helps) RDM2006

 

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Wonder if i should claim compensation for a data breach lol

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?478045-CEL-Data-Protection-Breach

HTH (Hope This Helps) RDM2006

 

THE FORCE (OF CAG) IS WITH YOU

;)

 

We've Helped You To Claim - Now Help Us Remain

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All advice and opinions given by people on this site are personal, and are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, please seek qualified professional legal Help.

 

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Why not show your gratitude And

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There's not really a standard letter for Hoopla, it's all 'click based' now on their website, unless you want to go down the paper & stamp route? Not really necessary with Hoopla.

 

Just select the appeal reason that fits best, I keep meaning to keep a track of these, but keep on forgetting.

 

So, something along the lines of...

 

My reason for appeal is that there can be no keeper liability as the operator has completely failed to follow the protocols of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

 

I was not the driver at the time in question.

 

The date of the parking event was 05/04/2017

The date of issue of the NTK was 03/05/2017 (upload the NTK as part of your evidence to prove dates). Starting the clock from the day after the parking event that triggered this charge notice, this is 27 days. Well outside the 14 day limit afforded by the PoFA 2012.

 

The operator did not even request the keeper details from the DVLA until 28/04/2017 (confirmed by the DVLA themselves (upload the letter from the DVLA as part of your evidence)) which, starting the clock from the day after the parking event that triggered this charge notice is 22 days later, which proves that the PoFA 2012 has not been complied with and therefore no keeper liability can be created.

 

I therefore request that this appeal be allowed.

 

As for the breach of the Data Protection Act, if POPLA decide against you and CEL are silly enough to take court action against you, I'd definitely put in a counter claim and hit them in the pocket (again). The transcript of that CEL case in the other thread has been ordered and will be online as soon as it's received, so that'll be useful to have a copy of if they're that stupid! whistle.gif

 

We already know that they are that greedy, but it's whether or not they'd be happy to pay you another chunk of petty cash once you've won your counter claim spiteful.gif

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Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.
In fact, they're probably just waffling and can be quite safely and completely ignored as you wish.

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