Marc Gander - The Consumer Survival Handbook


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Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


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  1. #41
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    Default Re: CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - Hawley Retail Park Hinckley

    Thanks for the speedy reply. I'll give them a call in the morning.


  2. #42
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    Default Re: CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - Hawley Retail Park Hinckley

    After what must be over 100 attempts, spread over several days, I have finally got through - CEL DID pay the fees, so the case is on.

    Being that I'm not the most organised person in the world,
    I did not submit my witness statement prior to the required 14 days (the case is to be heard on the 18th Jan).
    This was because the deadline for paying the court fees was just a few days before Christmas, so I had other things on my mind.
    So, What can I do?

    On 4th Jan, I received the CEL's pack with all of their evidence,
    but haven't put together a pack of my open because I completely forgot about it until theirs arrived;

    I appreciate that this is no defence.

    Thatís exactly 14 days before the hearing.
    I wasnít home, s
    assume that the postman signed for it.
    Is this legal?

    When I checked the Royal Mail website, thereís a scrawl that obviously isnít mine, so can this be considered inadmissible?

    Without going in to too much detail,
    from what I can see,
    in my opinion their witness statement is flawed
    - the sign I saw stating that there was 3 hours parking belonged to another parking company, not CEL.

    Their signs state 2 hours,
    but I did not pass one on the way to my parking space.

    How was I supposed to know the difference?
    I know that I was parked for 3h 7m, but isn't that within the 10min grace period that parking attendants give (or have I imagined that?).

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  3. #43

    Default Re: CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - Hawley Retail Park Hinckley

    Hi.

    I think you need to start working on your papers together now. Did you submit a defence?

    HB

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  4. #44

    Default Re: CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - Hawley Retail Park Hinckley

    you mean you've received their witness statement but you've yet to do yours?

    PLEASE REFRAIN FROM HITTING 'REPLY WITH QUOTE' IF YOU ARE SIMPLY REPLYING TO THE LAST POST IN A THREAD..JUST TYPE!!
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  5. #45

    Default Re: CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - Hawley Retail Park Hinckley

    you had better learn to read properly and byn that I mean read things thoroughly. CEL havent submitted a DEFENCE, that is for you to do.

    As for NOT writing an submitting your defence you should have read the court paperwork and other threads so you would know that you stick to the timetable regardless of what the other side does. If they say tey are drodping their claim you still attend court unless the COURT has told you otherwise.

    Get your defnce writtne tonight, post it here for peopel to comment on and then get it sent to court by both letter mail and email attachment.

    You neerd pictures of the signs, you need pland of the car park suitably anotated, you need to tell us whether they have planning and if they dont you use the document linked in the parking pranksters blogspot of dec 2017 to show why they need it and wehy thier signs are ILLEGAL and thus no contract can be formed.

    You have had over a year to get a grip of this and still you havent doen a thing about it that can be said to be decisive so time to put it all together and produce soemthing that will knock them over.

    Are the images in their WS the same as at the actual site or just computer mock ups? Thye usually use the latter so compare whrit evidence with the reality.

    - - - Updated - - -

    post up what they have sent so we can pick holes in it

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  6. #46
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    Default

    @dx100uk

    I'm afraid so.

    @ericsbrother
    Having not been through anything like this before;
    I admit that I have been a little ignorant to what is required.

    I have had parking tickets before that I have contested successfully,
    but they have never got this far and I was expecting this to be the same.
    My bad.

    They've sent a massive pack of info.
    I'll scan it all and get it up on here ASAP.
    Is it acceptable to copies of their defence as my defence?

    Attached is the CEL pack of information.
    I have broken it up in to 5 sections because it was over 22mb.
    I will post that up if that is prefered.

    I will work on my pack and uploadicon it as soon as I have completed it.

    Attached Files Attached Files
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  7. #47

    Default Re: CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - Hawley Retail Park Hinckley

    stop using the word defence...they are WITNESS STATEMENTS.

    get yours done and in.
    there are numerous examples here already.

    you are a LiP litigant in person.
    and are given certain leeway.

    to day should be well ok to submit.

    PLEASE REFRAIN FROM HITTING 'REPLY WITH QUOTE' IF YOU ARE SIMPLY REPLYING TO THE LAST POST IN A THREAD..JUST TYPE!!
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  8. #48

    Default Re: CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - Hawley Retail Park Hinckley

    claimant WS in post 46 sorted.

    the court cases they mention are not applicable
    there is already a WS here that blows them apart.

    have you gone and got and CHECKED:

    the planning permission for the signs

    the planning permission for the cameras.


    the ORIGINAL parking specs in the planning permission when the estate was granted permission...typically free parking is 3 hours, no-one can change that.

    have they sent a copy of the current and PAID UP contract with the land owner?


    whomever turns up for cohen
    you check they are a registered solicitor or they cant say a word!!

    PLEASE REFRAIN FROM HITTING 'REPLY WITH QUOTE' IF YOU ARE SIMPLY REPLYING TO THE LAST POST IN A THREAD..JUST TYPE!!
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  9. #49

    Default Re: CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - Hawley Retail Park Hinckley

    Those cases have been rebutted before as DX indicates, and Beavis is only relevant to it;s own facts, so not applicable here,

    Amazed they didn't trot out some other old discredited chestnuts with no relevance like Elliott v Loake and CPS v AJH Films. as Belt & Braces

    The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!
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  10. #50

    Default Re: CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - Hawley Retail Park Hinckley

    well, their sign is as said a computer mock up so you had bertter takle some pictures of th real signs with you.

    no mention of any futher costs beinmg claimed as part of that cpontract so they cant and in any case when they are claiming from the keeper under the POFA the amount is limited to what is demanded on the invoice so there usurious debt decovery fees and adminicon arent legal. Drive this point home so that if for some reason you do lose then they will only get the £100.

    The plan isnt a plan so use a grab from google earth to show what it really looks like from above. Even small differences will make the rest of their evidence unrelaible. Their signs arent compliant with their Accredited Trade Association and therefore the signs dont comply with para 12 of the POFA

    the signage piccy on page 16 of their WS clearly cant be read from a passing car and there is no evidence that the core terms they rely on are visible and as they say 2 hours maximum feee parking this indicates there is an offer to park for longer than 2 hours under other conditions. No offer for an extended period appears or any explanation as to how you pay for stopping beyond 2 hours is indicated so it isnt a fair contract.

    clearly the actual 3 hours permitted parking period renders their contract void. The terms on that sign are totally different to the other signs so there is confusionas to what is being offered. This means that s62 of the Consumer Rights Acticon applies and the whole lot are not binding. Same goes with the sign at entrance, different so the others arent a binding contract but at best an invitation to treat

    you take copies of the POFA and the CRAicon 2015 with you as the judge wont be digging them out just to make you happy

    I am not happy that you still refer to their defence when it is a plaintiff's witness statement. This is what I mena about reading things properly, you still arent doing this so you may well miss a lot of important things because you answer what you think has beed said rather than what is actually there. Pay attention and you wont drop yourself in it.

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  11. #51

    Default Re: CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - Hawley Retail Park Hinckley

    They are suing YOU, their paperwok isn't a Defence, it's a Witness Statement of the facts they are presenting to ground the claim against YOU even the amount claimed in total is wrong as Keeper you cannot be held liable for all the extras they have added on. it is YOU who has to defend and rebut the garbage in their Witness Statement. EB has indicated what to do and use. Now go on and beat them with their own stick.

    The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!
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  12. #52
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    Default Re: CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - Hawley Retail Park Hinckley

    In your appeal - 2nd Photo of car park - please tell me you didn't write that under the picture and send it to them?


  13. #53

    Default Re: CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - Hawley Retail Park Hinckley

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs O'Frog View Post
    In your appeal - 2nd Photo of car park - please tell me you didn't write that under the picture and send it to them?
    It doesnt matter what you say in an appeal. it will almost always be rejected. You could say aliens landed, you got out to say hello, and someone jumped in your car and moved it to that spot

    Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..


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  14. #54
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    Default Re: CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - Hawley Retail Park Hinckley

    Yes I get that, but look at the wording - it says "where I parked".


  15. #55

    Default Re: CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - Hawley Retail Park Hinckley

    mistakes between the claimants defence and it being a witness statement have been corrected in the posts here by the OP.

    PP have you actioned post 47 and did you get your WS sent off to the court and CEL yesterday as advised??

    PLEASE REFRAIN FROM HITTING 'REPLY WITH QUOTE' IF YOU ARE SIMPLY REPLYING TO THE LAST POST IN A THREAD..JUST TYPE!!
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    DX
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  16. #56
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    Default Re: CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - Hawley Retail Park Hinckley

    As I understand it the OP is defending as keeper and in the claimant's WS in P21 & 22 this is confirmed. However also in the claimant's WS (P17) they refer to the OP's appeal and attach this as Exhibit 6 - On page 4 of exhibit 6 is the offending hand written "Where I parked". Just concerned that maybe they might draw this to the Court's attention and thereby try to cast doubt on the reliability of the defendant's statement. Better to forewarn the OP so that they can cast their mind back and see if they can remember if it was perhaps the driver who had marked up those photos for them, rather than be surprised by it on the day.

    Sorry if that's already been covered before but I hadn't spotted it myself.


  17. #57

    Default Re: CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - Hawley Retail Park Hinckley

    Those words were for us. Not the WS.....

    That post was almost 2 years ago

    Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..


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  18. #58
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    Default Re: CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - Hawley Retail Park Hinckley

    Post 46?


  19. #59

    Default Re: CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - Hawley Retail Park Hinckley

    It doesnt matter. For all the reasons already outlines. There is no basis at all for a claim or for the OP to pay anything. The PPC will say and do anything to get money from them. Same as in every single other PPC claim.

    Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..


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  20. #60
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    Default Re: CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - Hawley Retail Park Hinckley

    Yep - the signs are all wrong and he shouldn't be paying. They'll lie through their teeth for a payday, but just thought OP ought to be prepared in case they are confronted with "you've admitted being the driver here" if someone from CEL has picked up on it and since it's there in their evidence pack. Knowing CEL's fictitious accounting when they're adding clues up they'll make 2+2 = £268.35


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