Hi folks

just looking for some advice with this one.

I took out car breakdown membership one year ago and paid for a years cover in full using my debitcard.

I was advised at the time that this was on a yearly recurring payment basis unless i cancelled.

6 months ago my card details were somehow obtained by fraudsters

(luckily i did not loose any money)

santander completely cancelled my old card that i had used 6 months earlier to buy the breakdown cover and i was issued with a new card with new 16 digit number.

A few weeks ago the breakdown cover renewal letter landed on the doormat saying they were taking x amount using card ending and quoted the last four digits of my old cancelled debitcard.

I had already decided not to renew the breakdown cover but i did not inform the breakdown company as i was confident they would not be able to collect payment using my old cancelled card ??

Low and behold i have checked my account online and the payment is in the system waiting to come out of my account.

I have rang santander and they claim that the breakdown company have used the card number from my new debitcard not the old cancelled card.

They advised me to ring the breakdown company to see if they would agree to a refund.

The breakdown company are not available until tomorrow (Apart from breakdowns of course)

But i am certain if i ask them for the last 4 digits of the card they have used to collect payment they will quote my old cancelled card.

As stated earlier

i also have it in black and white that they were going to collect payment using my old cancelled card.

The last time i had any contact with the breakdown company was a year ago when i took out cover,

i have not had a breakdown all year and have never been in touch with them,

it is impossible for them to have my new 16 digit card number.

Anyone had a similar situation or can offer an explanation or advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks Steve.

no as per usual satans bank hasn't a clue what they are talking about

the renewal would have been done under the existing Continuous Payment Authority

which doesn't need a card at all.

GENERAL NOTES ON CHARGEBACK & Continuous Payment Authority & BACS

.....

We have been telling people to put a letter into their bank instructing them

not to make any payments under any circumstances to these companies

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http://whatconsumer.co.uk/visa-debit-chargeback/- it works!

usually this should be done using the number on your debit card

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banks MUST follow written intructions from their customers !

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CANCELLING YOUR DEBIT CARD DOES NOT STOP CPA'S

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This fsa guide has now been updated:

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http://www.fsa.gov.uk/static/pubs/consumer_info/know_your_rights_guide.pdf

http://www.fca.org.uk/news/continuous-payment-authorities-your-right-to-cancel

https://www.fca.org.uk/consumers/unauthorised-payments-account

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Here's the text:

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Cancelling a regular

card payment:

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When you give your credit or debit card details to a company and authorise them to take regular payments from your account,

such as for a gym membership or magazine subscription,

it is known as a ‘recurring transaction’ or ‘continuous payment authority’.

.

These are often confused with direct debits, but do not offer the same guarantee if the amount or date of the payment changes.

.

In most cases, regular payments can be cancelled by telling the company taking the payments.

.

However,

you have the right to cancel them directly with your bank or card issuer by telling it that you have stopped permission for the payments.

Your bank or card issuer must then stop them – it has no right to insist that you agree this first with the company taking the payments.

.

Be aware, though, that you will still be responsible for paying any money that you owe.

and that CANELLING YOUR CARD WILL NOT STOP THE CPA

.

..

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New june 2013

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Regulator orders Banks and mutuals to review complaints about not cancelling recurring payments from November 2009.

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Consumers who have set up a regular payment from their account will now be able to successfully cancel that arrangement

by contacting their card provider, the Financial Conduct Authority said.

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The FCA has been examining how easy it is for customers to cancel Continuous Payment Authorities (CPAs)

due either to payday lendersicon or for other regular payments such as subscriptions or gymicon memberships.

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CPAs, which are also commonly called recurring transactions or recurring payments,

are relatively easy to set up but can be hard to cancel, causing problems for consumers trying to manage their finances,the FCA said.

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Now, following the FCA review of how the largest high street banks and mutuals process requests to cancel CPAs, they have agreed that they will ensure that when

a customer asks for a recurring payment to end, that will be sufficient to cancel the arrangement. They have also confirmed that should a payment go through by

mistake following cancellation by a customer the customer will be refunded immediately.

.

In addition to securing this commitment, the largest banks and mutuals have agreed to review every individual complaint they have received about the non-

cancellation of a CPA and to pay redress where payments have continued to be made despite the customer cancelling the arrangement. This applies to all complaints

since November 2009 when the Financial Services Authority, the FCA’s predecessor, began regulating banking conduct.

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Clive Adamson, the FCA’s director of supervision, said: “It’s important that consumers are confident that banks are meeting their everyday banking needs. Today

customers can be confident that when they ask for a Continuous Payment Authority to be cancelled – it will be cancelled - and that it can be done easily.

.

“We recognise that historically this is an area where some customers have struggled but the banks and mutuals have responded positively to our work on this issue.

From now on we expect them to be getting this right. In addition, they have committed to review past complaints.”

.

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Also mentioned your displeasure that as whomever took your money had obviously attempted this many times

probably activating your banks own anti fraud software - nobody had the decency to inform my you this was going on.?

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.In the FSA's own words:

.

..

What should I do about a payment from my account that I didn’t authorise?

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Your bank must refund an unauthorised transaction.

Money can only be taken from your account if you have authorised the transaction

or if your bank can prove you were at fault –

.

see below.

Contact your bank immediately if you notice an unauthorised payment from your account.

.

If you are sure you did not authorise the payment, you can claim a refund.

.

However, your bank does not have to refund you if you do not tell it about the payment until 13 months

or more after the date it left your account.

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Your bank must refund an unauthorised transaction

.

------------------

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Your bank may only refuse a refund for an unauthorised transaction if:

.

? it can prove you authorised the transaction

– though your bank cannot simply say that use of your password,

card and PIN proves you authorised a payment; or

.

? it can prove you are at fault because you acted fraudulently,

or because you deliberately,

or with gross negligence, failed to protect the details of your card, PIN or password in a way that allowed the transaction

.

-----------------------

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How quickly must my bank refund me for an unauthorised transaction?

.

The bank must make the refund immediately unless it has evidence that one of the above reasons applies.

Your bank may ask you to answer some questions and fill out a form confirming what has happened,

but it cannot delay your refund while it waits for you to return the form.

If the bank has evidence that one of the above reasons for refusing a refund applies,

it may investigate before making a refund

but must look into it as quickly as possible.

If your bank rejects your claim for a refund it should explain why.

If the transaction was on a credit card, the refund may not happen immediately.

But the card issuer cannot charge interest or ask for repayment of the amount unless it can prove you are liable to pay

Go above the front desk monkeys heads. get a letter direct to your manager and ensure you get the money back in full. The law is 100% on your side

Thanks for the reply folks.

Unless im missing something here im still not sure whether i have a case here or not.

Your replies certainly give the impression that i do.

Ive had a good read of your post DX100 and to be honest im still not sure if its me who is at fault here.

Just to clarify,

I took the breakdown cover out a year ago on the full understanding it was a recurring payment unless i cancelled it.

I did not cancel the payment either with the breakdown company or my bank,

i simply relied on the fact that the card details held by the breakdown company were for a cancelled card and would no longer allow the payment to go through.

Do i still have a case to ask santander to get a refund for me if the breakdown company refuse ??

Thanks Steve.

Quick question, when you cancelled the card, what did santander say about recurring payments?

Nothing at all.

To be precise it was not me who cancelled the card it was Santander.

I got a phone call from santander fraud team in september last year asking about a transaction that was being attempted in albania using my card details.

When i assured them it was not me they said that my card would have to be cancelled as fraudsters had obviously stolen my details.

They said a new card with new 16 digit number and security number on the back would have to be issued.

There was no mention from the santander operative about any recurring payments i may have on the card.

Thanks.

unlike car insurance

which does auto renew by law.

in case you forget

there is NO legal remit that you MUST have breakdown cover

just because their T&C or the supposed contract said it will auto renew

you can challenge it.

just like bank penalty fees

Hi DX100,

would you agree that my best course of action is to ring the breakdown company tomorrow and explain that i do not require the cover and ask for a refund ??

I was wondering if i could use "A cooling off period" tactic ??

Also regarding the actual payment being allowed to go through in the first place,

could you advise if you think this is the sort of thing that can happen in banking sometimes ??

At the end of the day the cancelled card details are the only details the breakdown company were given 12 months ago, ie 16 digit card number, valid from date and 3 digit security number.

I did not give them my bank account number or sortcode.

It seems bizzare to me that a card cancelled due to fraud can then allow months later a recurring payment to go through or am i missing something here.

Am i being too simplistic here imagining someone at the breakdown company entering my card details into some sort of computer or card machine and the payment goes through.

how can that happen ?? Thanks Steve.

as ive already said its nothing to do with any card past or present, its a continuous payment arrangement

the only time any card details are needed is upon set up of it.

as for the money, again as I've already said and as the information tells you..

you ring your bank and tell them to cancel the CPA as you did not give the company any permission to roll the contract without you expressed wish.

they, the bank cannot refuse it

READ WHAT THE FCA SAYS in that text.

dx