I am the RK of the vehicle and received a letter with a parking charge.

I have had two previous PCN's from a long time ago when the advice was always to ignore, which I did and subsequently heard nothing off a host of 'solicitors' that sent out begging letters.

I think I'm right in assuming after reading many threads the situation has changed because of POPLA and the POFA?? situation in 2012 says I now as the RK have to disclose who was driving

as said I am the registered keeper.

My partner was the driver.

She stopped in the above carpark,

tells me she paid for a ticket after entering the reg number in the machine and displayed the ticket on the dashboard. She has used this carpark a few times.

we're suprised to get the speculative invoice and hoped for some advice on how to play it

Many thanks

1 Date of the infringement....10/4/17

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date]...14/04/17

3 Date received...20/4/17

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [y/n?] YES

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? YES

6 Have you appealed? {y/n?] post up you appeal] NOT YET

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up N/A

7 Who is the parking company? PARKING EYE

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] BRITANNIA ADLPHI, LIVERPOOL

sorry I should also have added that on ther back of the letter it says...

On April 10th the vehicle entered the car park at 9:58 and left at 11:03 (!hr 05mins)

This is 'backed up' by photographic evidence on the front of the letter.

I asked the better half if she'd maybe just paid for the hour,

because judging by other threads you are allowed a 10 minute overstay as per BPA,

but she says she paid for 2 hours

so probably entered the wrong reg number or missed a digit

well this is another case of PE's ANPR system not being fit for purpose.

read the other threads here concerning mis-typed reg number anpr.

you know what you're probably spot on. We only got the car a few days before the incident date

Just to clarify, you have absolutely no obligation to name the driver.

Any appeals, correspondence or ultimately a court defence should be done by the recorded keeper. This makes life just a little more difficult for the PPC and gives them many more opportunities to make a hash of the process, which will ultimately see you win in court.

As it was a fairly recent parking 'event', is there any chance at all that the pay & display ticket is still in the car somewhere?

If you have that, you've as good as already won as ParkingLie won't be able to show a loss, so would have no basis of claim.

If you haven't, no matter, it just means that it has to be approached from another angle.

Thanks for the great advice. if it had been the old car it would probably be at hand, but with it being a new car, we're trying to keep it a bit clean !

Am I naive in thinking that if I appeal on the grounds of 'new car, sorry, we put the wrong reg in' there's a chance they'll accept the plea?. Or would they just refuse the claim as would POPLA?

The house is getting a turn-over tomorrow to see if we can find it

Well, I'd be 99% sure that ParkingLie will reject any appeal you make to them, there's no profit in allowing appeals

POPLA is more likely to allow an appeal, but even that can be a bit of a lottery at times. Some you win - some you lose. Of course, the bonus of POPLA is that you cost ParkingLie £27 to issue you with the code, and the BPA a few more quid on top of that. I think it still holds true that each case that is decided by POPLA costs around £150 (ParkingLie & the BPA, not you)... So it never hurts to hit them in the pocket a bit.

To be frank, POPLA are unlikely to just take your word for it that the driver bought and displayed a P&D ticket, but might be swayed by the incorrect reg entered, it happens!

Even if POPLA decide against you, ParkingLie would have to take you to court to even have a hope of actually getting any money out of you, and that opens up a whole new can of worms for them. If you lose at POPLA and ParkingLie go down the court route (which is the usual form for them), then you can demand to see their evidence. As long as the driver paid, this will prove that...

Let's say 1,000 cars used that car park all day, 999 cars were recorded by the ANPR system and then subsequently purchased a P&D ticket, but 1 vehicle registration was used in the car park to buy a P&D ticket, but the vehicle itself was never recorded entering or leaving the car park.

That 1 vehicle would be yours, which would prove that the driver did buy a P&D ticket, but that the incorrect registration was entered by mistake and therefore there could have been no loss to ParkingLie or the landowner.

POPLA have their hands tied so they can only consider things the BPA let them consider and matters of law are not on the rather short list.

There is plenty of precednt law and previous cases where it has been shown that a fee paid and the wrong reg entered is still a valid payment because their system has an errant payment for a car that isnt there.

They know this but would rather you pay them £100 than nothing so wont tell you that they have the details actually punched in as described and no ANPR for that vehicle reg.

so do you appeal

if you word it carefully it wont hurt.

Look at other threads on this subject,

there was one yesterday that a poster referred to the case precedent on and look at the Parking Pranksters blog and you will find others.

you can then appeal quoting these and say something like

"the driver paid the prescribed fee and entered a car reg that may have been incorrect by error.

Strict proof of a breach of contract is requested before the monies claimed will be considered so I would be obliged if you can send me the details of the reg numbers of all of the vehicles that entered the car park after my vehicle and before my vehicle left and note the registration numbers of any that were entered into the payment system but do not correlate with the ANPR capture.

As I am sure that you will then find the disparity and that will mean their is no cause for action under the decision of (name the court case that set the precedent) you will cancel the demand for payemnt ref XXXX"

that will at least give them notice that you have tried to settle this properly and make them look stupid if they then decide to continue pursuing you.

Many thanks for the excellent advice.

I am going to appeal to private eye sending this...

The driver paid the prescribed fee and entered a car reg that may have been incorrect by error. The driver had only that week recieved the car. The driver has used this car park many times prior and has since.

Strict proof of a breach of contract is requested before the monies claimed will be considered so I would be obliged if you can send me the details of the reg numbers of all of the vehicles that entered the car park after my vehicle and before my vehicle left and note the registration numbers of any that were entered into the payment system but do not correlate with the ANPR capture. I am sure that you will then find the disparity and that will mean there is no cause for action and you can cancel the demand for payemnt ref XXXX

...is there anything that could be added, or is this ok?

no, dont send that,

you identify the keeper and driver as the same person.

I would start off by asking the landowner to cancel the claim first by explaining to them what has happened if you had business there.

Let them know that they stand to lose a lot of goodwill if they dont intercede.

If you didnt have business there other than using the car park as P&D

if that is the case then appeal to PE

but stick to the facts at the moment,

the driver paid the prescribed fee

and may have inputted the wrong reg details.

as PE claims to have a 15 point checking system before they issue a NTK

you wish that they revisit the correlation between the ANPR and the payment machine log and

it is likely that this will show up and should have been noted before the NTK was sent out.

As the prescribed fee was offered by the driver and accepted by the machine

it is denied that there was breach of contract

and this position is agreed by the BPA code of practice and case law.

I look forward to the confirmation that the charge is cancelled.

you ask for all of the information they hold if they refuse to cancel rather than at the beginning.

Many Thanks, appeal sent by email and worded as suggested.

They wanted my email address and telephone number and to tick a privacy box.

I n/a the telephone number. give a nonesense email address, but there was no way i could get around the privacy statement

Should have been by writing now you given them a free mode to harass you

Should have been by writing now you given them a free mode to harass you

Indeed, but you can have a little 'fun' with email

I emailed DRP once using a freshly created email address which also used an auto-responder.

If they replied via email to that address they would have got 1,000 copies of their own email,

plus a 2Mb attachment to each response returned to them.

I don't know if they tried it or not, but if they did I'd have loved to have seen their faces as their email system went into meltdown

again thanks for all this excellent advice.

I'm assuming now they will reject it - I'll appeal to POPLA - they'll reject it.

A forest of speculative invoices arrive and I ignore the lot of them until it's an actual court letter - then I use CPR 31.14 which in effect do them in

did you ask the Adelphi to cancel before this

well you came back here first before doing anything IF you get a claimform!!

dx

did you ask the Adelphi to cancel before this

No mate, she never visited the hotel. We often park in that car park when in the city center

next step....

parking eye have said they have refered the appeal for 28 days until i supply them with the details of the driver and his/her postal address.

I'm guessing ignore then POPLA?

Cheers

Yes, you deffo don't tell them who the driver was, that helps Parking Eye and not you.

HB

there is case law on this

so try a google trawl for it or look at the Parking pranksters blog and list of important cases on his website.

You shoudl find references to it. Excel v Hetherington- Jakeman is a good one to start with but there are others.

When you have read a couple and got a bit fo confidence

you appeal to them and say the circumstances are the same as Ev H-J (or whatever)and that they should cancel their claim as it is doomed to fail and just waste people's time if they take the matter further.

POPLA see the law differently so you will lose there and that may embolden the parking co so let them know that it wont end at POPLA

Cheers people, I have had a read regarding case law and found the Parking Eye v Heggie case one that is about a mistyped registration number.

I am intending to send this letter, please advise if it needs any changes. Thanks

"I am not prepared to pay this PCN. The fee for car parking was paid on the day

I have told you the driver has inputted an incorrect registration number and that should you check your system, you will see this to be the case.

The Parking Eye v Heggie case law set a precedent and should you persue this unjust charge, i am more than prepared to go to court.

This is simply an error that can be resolved without wasting people's time"

the Excel one was at a higher court so use them both.

English law has strange terminology so persuasive decisions and precedents crop up a lot but they are not case law.

make your letter less aggressive

(unusual for me to say this but you want to persuade them tat it isnt worth their while to chase)

something like

"the driver paid the prescribed fee and inputted the VRN but in hindsight it appears that the wrong VRN may have been used.

Your system will have identified this otherwise no NTK could have been issued.

The matter is amply covered by the decision of Excel v Hetherington-Jakeman and PE v Heggie.

No loss has been caused by the driver's inadvertent error so no material breach of contract has occurred.

It is requested that the invoice number XXXXXX be cancelled as there is no realistic chance of you winning a court claim on this manner and any such claim will be vigourously defended"

Lets them know that you arent going to roll over but less in your face

many thanks I'll go with that as you've written it

Thanks again for advice...

I have today received notice that they have rejected my appeal (LOL) and they have issued me a 10 digit POPLA code.

So I'm guessing I send the previous replies to them and reiterate my stance that the fee was paid so there's no breach of contract and that i am more than happy to go to court

for POPLA

the first thing you ask for is sight of the contract between the landowner and PE that assigns the right to PE to enter into contracts with the public and to make civil claims in their own name.

you can then use the argument that the fee was paid and the conditions of the contract were adhered to and so no material breach of contract has occurred.

There is a case precedent for this so look it up and quote it

cheers mate. Appeal sent to POPLA I will ignore any further correspondance until it's official court papers