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    • We used to recommend that people accept mediation but our advice has changed. The mediation process is unclear. Before you can embark on it you have to agree that you are prepared to enter a compromise – and that means that you agree that you are prepared to give up some of your rights even though you are completely in the right and you are entitled to hundred percent of your money and even though EVRi are simply trying to obstruct you in order to discourage you and also to put others who might want to follow your example off from claiming and even though they have a legitimate basis for reimbursement. Mediation is not transparent. In addition to having to sign up that you are prepared to give up some of your rights, you will also have to agree not to reveal any details of the mediation – including the result of the mediation – so that the whole thing is kept secret. This is not open justice. Mediation has nothing to do with justice. The only way of getting justice is to make sure that this matter goes to trial unless EVRi or the other parcel delivery companies put their hands up and accept the responsibility even if they do it is a gesture of goodwill. Going to trial and winning at trial produces a judgement which we can then add to our small collection to assist other people who are in a similar boat. EVRi had been leading you around by the nose since at least January – and probably last year as well – and their whole purpose is simply to drag it out, to place obstacles in your way, to deter other people, and to make you wish that you'd never started the process and that you are prepared to give up your 300 quid. You shouldn't stand for it. You should take control. EVRi would prefer that you went to mediation and if nothing else that is one excellent reason why you should decline mediation and go to court. If it's good for them it's bad for you. On mediation form, you should sign that you are not prepared to compromise and that you are not prepared to keep the result secret but that you want to share the results with other people in similar circumstances. This means that the mediation won't go ahead. It will take slightly longer and you will have to pay a court fee but you will get that back when you win and you will have much greater satisfaction. Also, once you go the whole process, you will learn even more about bringing a small claim in the County Court so that if this kind of thing happens again you will know what to do and you will go ahead without any hesitation. Finally, if you call EVRi's bluff and refuse mediation and go to trial, there is a chance – maybe not a big chance – but there is a chance that they will agree to pay out your claim before trial simply in order to avoid a judgement. Another judgement against them will simply hurt the position even more and they really don't want this. 300 quid plus your costs is peanuts to them. They don't care about it. They will set it off against tax so the taxpayer will make their contribution. It's all about maintaining their business model of not being liable for anything, and limiting or excluding liability contrary to section 57 and section 72 of the consumer rights act.     And incidentally, there is a myth that if you refuse mediation that somehow it will go against you and the judge will take a dim view and be critical of you. This is precisely a myth. It's not true. It would be highly improper if any judge decided the case against you on anything other than the facts and the law of the case. So don't worry about that. The downside of declining mediation is that your case will take slightly longer. The upside is that if you win you will get all your money and you will have a judgement in your favour which will help others. The chances of you winning in this case are better than 95% and of course you would then receive 100% of your claim plus costs
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South West Trains - only 1 replacement of annual ticket if lost - help!


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Good day all,

 

I'm in a bit of a panic here. I have a £4500 season ticket with SWT. I managed to lose it about 1 month into the ticket and was interviewed by revenue protection and subsequently given a replacement.

 

Last night as I got up to let a lady off I folded the tray back with my season ticket in there and forgot to take it down again before getting off leaving my ticket on the train. Realising my mistake I tried to call the guard and SWT 30 mins after. However there were no numbers I could get through to.

 

I spoke to the guard this morning and he advised that I wouldn't be given a duplicate and I would have to buy a new season ticket as I'd already had one replacement. My current season ticket had until June to run, so about £1500 worth of travel.

 

I've got a new daughter being born soon and I can't afford the travel to get to work.

 

Surely SWT can't refuse to let me travel? I've paid for the service not the ticket right? Is there anyone who can offer me any advice on how to go about coming to a resolution which doesn't end up putting me into debt or losing my job!

 

Any advice greatly appreciated!!!

 

thank you

T

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Hello and welcome to CAG. The forum guys should be along over the course of the day.

 

I've looked at SWT's website and couldn't see anything about replacement season tickets. They have a helpline, it would be worth calling that to ask your questions.

 

I would say you need to buy tickets for now, because the website does say that you should carry your season ticket and display it when asked. Without a ticket you're likely to have further problems, I'm afraid.

 

My best, HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Well I would certainly have said that you have paid for the service rather than the ticket. It seems to me that refusing to replace the ticket amounts to a penalty which exceeds their administrative costs and therefore could be unenforceable.

 

Presumably they deal with this in their terms and conditions. Please could you point us towards their terms and conditions

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Thanks for the welcome HB13.

 

Yep I'm buying tickets at the moment, which is killing me at £54 a day. I'll get a weekly next week but funds are low.

 

I'm just wondering if anyone has any advice to get round this issue and get SWT to issue a 2nd duplicate. Do I make up a story and file a report? Would they take pity on me because it's the 2nd time in a year rather than a month? Literally any advice... I know I screwed up here by leaving it on the train in the first place.

 

thanks all

T

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Hi there, the wording on their season ticket leaflet terms and conditions is as follows :

 

"if you lose your Season Ticket or it is stolen, report this immediately to the ticket office where you bought it. You should also report this to the police. If you or we cannot recover the lost or stolen ticket, we will then consider an application for a duplicate ticket, it the original was issued for a period of one month of more.

 

We only allow one duplicate issue in an 12 month period. However we will only allow a second duplicate issue if :

 

(a) the original season ticket is returned to the train company which sold it to you within one month of you reporting the loss, or

(b) the first or second request for a duplicate was because of theft, robbery, fire or other exceptional circumstances, the facts of which have been reported to the police, the fire service or another appropriate body."

 

However the wording on their website is different :

 

"Lost or stolen Season tickets or Photocards

- If you lose your Season Ticket or it is stolen, report this immediately to the ticket office where you bought it. You should also report this to the police. If you or we cannot recover the lost or stolen ticket, we will then consider an application for a duplicate ticket, if the original was issued for a period of one month or more. We do not issue duplicates in respect of lost or stolen 7 Day Season Tickets. We may ask you or others for information. There is an administration charge when we issue a duplicate Season Ticket.

- A duplicate season ticket can be issued if:

you tell staff at an office of the Train Company from which it was bought as soon as you reasonably can and, if required, you give a reasonable explanation for the loss;

 

you agree to return immediately the lost Season Ticket if you find it, to an office of the Train Company from which it was bought; the lost Season Ticket is valid for one month or longer

- If you subsequently lose or mislay your duplicate Season Ticket or it is stolen, then further duplicate Season Tickets will be issued on the same basis as your first duplicate Season Ticket. However, you may be asked to attend a meeting with the Train Company concerned to explain the circumstances in which your duplicate Season Ticket(s) was lost. Train Companies have agreed a Code of Practice for such meetings, a copy of which can be found on the National Rail and Train Company websites.

- We will refund (with no administration charge) the cost of tickets you buy while you are waiting for the duplicate ticket to be issued, if you hand these tickets in.

- If you lose your photocard or it is stolen, we can issue a new one, for which a further passport-type photograph is required. If we need to reissue your Season Ticket, an administration charge will be made."

Edited by ImminentDad
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Presumably these season tickets have electronic strips so that journeys can be logged but also which would allow the company to disable the ticket?

 

Have you any idea about this?

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As far as i know, the electronic strips are the method of access through gates etc, but these cannot be cancelled remotely so the tickets that are issued remain active... so I can see their point that they could lose revenue through fraud...

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I can't imagine that they're not cancellable remotely.

 

I'm sure that they are able to keep tags in your journeys. It would have been naïve of them not to take advantage of this statistical marketing exercise.

 

Even if they weren't able to cancel them, they would certainly be able to know when each ticket is being used.

 

Have a search for this kind of information on the Internet. I'm sure that there are people who will know about these kinds of things.

 

I would suggest that you begin by sending them an SAR and let's see what kind of information they have about you. They may well have information about the journeys that you make. If that is the case then they would also have information about how the ticket has been use subsequent to the loss.

 

Can you tell me a bit about the procedure for purchasing the ticket please.

 

Did you buy it online? Is there a checkbox to say that you accepted terms and conditions? What were those terms and conditions?

 

Did you buy over the counter? Did you sign anything to say that you agreed certain terms and conditions? Were any terms and conditions brought your attention?

 

The order of these things can be extremely important – especially to know if terms and conditions were brought your attention and whether they were brought your attention before or after the sale.

 

For instance, it might be possible that you bought the ticket and you are then given a wallet with the ticket in, and the terms and conditions. In that case the terms and conditions would not be binding because they had not been brought to your attention before you entered into the contract.

 

We need to look at the whole situation in detail before deciding upon a strategy

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yes they can be cancelled for the automatic barriers but that doesnt stop them being used fraudulently.

I would report the ticket as being stolen from your seat on the xxth of whatever and then get a crime number and ask again for a replacement. Keep all your daily tickets so you can ask fro them to be reimbursed

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Ah yes, it hadn't clicked with me that you haven't made a formal request for a duplicate yet. You have only asked the guard and been given an informal refusal.

 

I agree with the above advice. Make a formal application for a duplicate and see what happens. You never know, maybe all of this discussion has been unnecessary.

 

Keep us informed

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Thing is if I make a formal application for a duplicate then I won't be able to report it as stolen later. I've been given very clear advice that I will be refused a duplicate...

 

I'm leaning towards making a police report to say it was stolen from my seat...

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Well you must play it as you see fit, but the advice on this forum would be to play it straight.

Also they will ask you why you didn't report it immediately instead of waiting and paying full price tickets in the intervening time.

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However the wording on their website is different :

 

"Lost or stolen Season tickets or Photocards

- If you lose your Season Ticket or it is stolen, report this immediately to the ticket office where you bought it. You should also report this to the police. If you or we cannot recover the lost or stolen ticket, we will then consider an application for a duplicate ticket, if the original was issued for a period of one month or more. We do not issue duplicates in respect of lost or stolen 7 Day Season Tickets. We may ask you or others for information. There is an administration charge when we issue a duplicate Season Ticket.

- A duplicate season ticket can be issued if:

you tell staff at an office of the Train Company from which it was bought as soon as you reasonably can and, if required, you give a reasonable explanation for the loss;

 

you agree to return immediately the lost Season Ticket if you find it, to an office of the Train Company from which it was bought; the lost Season Ticket is valid for one month or longer

- If you subsequently lose or mislay your duplicate Season Ticket or it is stolen, then further duplicate Season Tickets will be issued on the same basis as your first duplicate Season Ticket. However, you may be asked to attend a meeting with the Train Company concerned to explain the circumstances in which your duplicate Season Ticket(s) was lost. Train Companies have agreed a Code of Practice for such meetings, a copy of which can be found on the National Rail and Train Company websites.

- We will refund (with no administration charge) the cost of tickets you buy while you are waiting for the duplicate ticket to be issued, if you hand these tickets in.

- If you lose your photocard or it is stolen, we can issue a new one, for which a further passport-type photograph is required. If we need to reissue your Season Ticket, an administration charge will be made."

 

 

 

You should call the SWT Customer Relations office on 0345 600 0650 and explain how you believe that you came to lose the ticket just as you have done here. Explain what your actions were in the 30 minutes immediately after you alighted.

 

You may be asked to attend for interview as described above, but in exceptional circumstances and if they are satisfied that this is a genuine event, then I would expect SWT to apply the terms above and as advertised on their current website.

 

Do not be tempted to make an excuse, help SWT to help you by "hot-listing" the lost season so that if it comes to light being used by someone else then they can take robust action.

 

The sooner you make a truthful report the sooner you are likely to get this sorted.

 

Good luck

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