Hi everyone

Hope somebody can help me with this one.

I would really appreciate any help as never done this before.

I've got a CCJ by default

- well actually two from BW legal for parking over the prescribed time/ without a ticket on carpark behind TSB in Prestwich.

From May and June 2015.

I had moved out due to domestic abuse so did not get the letters.

I was just at friends etc and I didn't change my address with DVLA...

so I didn't get anything

Both CCJ's were granted on 29th Dec 2016.

I now also have letters for both to say will be enforced!

 I would like to try and get this set aside as I was unaware of the issues.

I know it will be discretionary as they sent to my known address but last thing on my mind during this time was post and I didn't want to go anywhere near the house.

I was taking anti depressants but no proof of the domestic abuse.

I did get the police out in 2014.

I read that I will also need to show a good reason for defence too?

 I don't necessarily want to defend it

just get them set back to the original amount and no ccj.

Is this possible?

If I do need a defence I've been reading some threads and could the fact that the signs didn't have planning permission be an argument?

Bury council have stated that no planning was deemed necessary for a "carpark" as it was an old established carpark for many years.

There have been a few people win against excel / BW but cant see anythig like mine

Thanks so much

I'm sorry but I don't expect the you have much of a chance of success. The cost of applying for set-aside would be £155. Once these people have a judgement then it's a pretty difficult business. I think you have do make better arrangements for mail to be sent on to you as you change addresses. I'm sure that you're in a difficult position and this kind of thing doesn't help but I really don't know what else to advise

picking through things in no particular order,

the council are wrong about sigange and planning but there again few judges read up on planning law so it is difficult to use just that argument, it works in conjunctuion with other wrongs but rarely on its own.

the big issue would be did the parking cos's follow the protocols of the POFA (as it is excel then the answer is no) and what does the signage actualy say?

a lack of contractual consideration is always a good point to beat a claim as judges understand that better than the POFA.

Ultimately it is a bit of a lottery as to whether the judgement will be sat aside as the papers were properly servied, even if the contents are rubbish so that is the biggest hurdle.

Thanks to both you and black fodder for your replies.

I don't even know if I got a ticket and went over

( certainly no ticket on windscreen) or I just didn't have a ticket.

I started using that carpark last summer and I remember I thought it was free at first as shocking small sign, but after that I got tickets.

The letter states either over time or no ticket and my head was in a bad place then so I have no idea.

Can I find this out before I do my n244?

If I did have a ticket how long do they get to send a letter as I'm sure it must have been a while

- if they did even send one as I can't find the first letter.

Please forgive me as I am a novice and don't know much about this process

but you mention contractural consideration possibly better than POFA. I'm not sure what is either?

Also even though I suspect they haven't followed correct protocol

I just want the ccj gone so can I not say the reason I didn't defend was I wasn't at address due to my circumstances and will pay if they remove the ccj?

Rather than defending?

Sorry this may not be possible but it seems to me this should be an allowed option in mitigating circumstances

Thanks a lot for your help much appreciated

the only way of removing the ccj is to get it set aside and have the matter reheard.

As siad,

if you dont update your keeper details and they send out letters to the address the DVLA hold they are doing things properly so all of your pleadings about your woes are worthless.

HOWEVER, as they are obliged to send documents to that address if you lived there when the NTK was issued and moved subsequently

that is a good enough reason to have the CCJ set aside as you can correctly claim that you didnt receive the paperwork.

Then you have to show some evidence to indicate that you have a reasonable chance of success with a defence.

Again, you have that but it would be better if you can really hammer the claim by showing no contract by way of signage etc so

get down to the site and get those piccies of the following.

the entrance to the land from the public highway

, pictures of the signs,

we need to see them in detail

and also an indication of where they are and how many.

You will need to find out who owns the land as you will be asking Excel for a copy of their agreement with the landowner that allows them to sue you.

Now excel and VCS are owned by the same person and often they have the wrong signage or contracts in place so that is why we ask for pictures of every sign that is different.

Also, if there is a ticket machine we need a picture of that and any signage associated specifically with the m/c.

Once we have this we can give you an idea f how to progress

the issue of getting photos is that the carpark is now used by farm foods and its all gone!

I can try to get some off somebody else on this forum though as I've read him offering help to others from the same carpark. But this may take a week or so, can I send my n244 without photos in the meantime?

Thanks so much I really appreciate all the assistance as I'm not that good with this sort of thing

looking at the dates I don't think that it was me driving.

My dad and then boyfriend also used my car whilst I was working or volunteering.

does this make a difference in the claim?

I could even try to get them to pay for the charge if it was them which will be a bonus

Thanks again

completely irrelevant if you were keeper at the time.

Paying the money (IT IS NOT A FINE) wont make the CCJ go away.

Only a set aside and then fighting the claims.

You will still need pictures of the site,

also take google screenshots as they can be relevant as they tend to be a year or so old.

You have to do everything in your powers to win this

Hi Ericsbrother

a few questions.

You say it will be a lottery as they ultimately served the papers correctly.

I didn't quite follow this

'As said, if you dont update your keeper details and they send out letters to the address the DVLA hold they are doing things properly so all of your pleadings about your woes are worthless.

HOWEVER, as they are obliged to send documents to that address if you lived there when the NTK was issued and moved subsequently'

And

It will be the judges discretion to allow to be heard but I hope they will be understanding of my circumstances and frame of mind at that time and I wasn't going anywhere near the house. I don't usually get much post anyway as all online these days.

Do I contact excel directly and ask for the landowner agreement?

I know it's the council and that they didnt have planning permission from another case.

Can I use somebody else's email from the council?

I will ask excel to send me the agreement though as they probably will refuse and I can use that.

I have a letter saying they will enforce

the judgement ie court bailiffs so do I fill out the n244 now or wait for the photos etc?

Thanks again

you can use the council email as evidence and you can ask for the set aside just stating that you didnt receive the claim form ect

BUT as said all the waffle about your frame of mind will not do your chances of success any good whatsoever so forget about that and concentrate on what will get you what you want.

If the set aside is granted then you get Excel to show sight of their agreement with the landowner

( that will be interesting) but unless the 2 matters are heard on the same day set-aside is just that,

back to the beginning and excel will still be suing you unless they decide to drop the matter knowing that you know they are wrong and that way they avoid a massive costs order.

Fill out the N244 and get the court to stop the bailiffs, excel will want to press ahead in an attempt to blugeon you into submission

Hi ok thanks

You say not to bother waffling about my circumstances but this is what happened and I thought first and foremost I have to explain why I did not receive the letters? So I thought this was important?

I'm worried that excel will send bailiffs as I had the letter about that dated a few weeks ago. Should I call excel and tell them I'm doing the n244 as even if I do it today I have to post it I think? It won't get to court till mon or tue if first class

I'm working on my n244 firm now so can I post my witness statement for you advice in an hour or so? Do I tick witness statement, statement of case or evidence set out below box?

I'm thinking of saying

1Reasons for not receiving letter are I was not at the address and had moved out due to domestic abuse. I did not want to go near the house and I have only been given the court claim form last friday ( keeping it short).

I was not aware of the ticket as I was not driving the car it was my ex boyfriend.

2.I intend to defend this in full based in the following:

Lack of authority

Lack of planning permission for signage

Signage inadequate due to size spacing height etc

No contractual obligation

Thanks so much

stop worrying about ruddy bailiffs

they cant do anything its a civil debt.

no right of entry

they can be ignored if they turn up.

Hi Dx oh ok thanks for that I was getting very worried about that.

Thus has never happened to me before so I am a bit list with all the procedures etc.

I am reassured by that

That's what they are good at - scaring us into paying etc

I can't get photos as signs all been removed now as carpark has been taken over.

I wanted to PM another member who I know has photos but I've not got 30 posts so can't!

Do you know how I can get in touch with him other than posting another 20 odd times?

I was thinking I could do a general post asking his username for help in the title??

Thanks again x

which thread?

Hi Dx this is the thread

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?467787-Excel-BW-claimforn-PCN-31-03-2015-Bury-New-road-manchester-**WON**

Is it still a civil case If it's at default ccj stage?

You say not to bother waffling about my circumstances but this is what happened and I thought first and foremost I have to explain why I did not receive the letters? So I thought this was important?

I'm worried that excel will send bailiffs as I had the letter about that dated a few weeks ago. Should I call excel and tell them I'm doing the N244icon as even if I do it today I have to post it I think? It won't get to court till mon or tue if first class

I'm trying to do my N244 now.

Do I tick witness statement, evidence set out below box or both or all three?

I called the court last Friday so they are expecting the n244

I'm so far saying

1Reasons for not receiving letter are I was not at the address and had moved out due to domestic abuse. I did not want to go near the house and I have only been given the court claim formicon last friday ( keeping it short).

I was not aware of the ticket as I was not driving the car it was my ex boyfriend.

2.I intend to defend this in full based in the following:

Lack of authority

Lack of planning permission for signage

Signage inadequate due to size spacing height etc

No contractual obligation

Although I don't have the email off council about the planning permission yet but Ericsbrother said ok to send without. Is this enough detail?

Thanks so much

as I said

stop worrying about ruddy bailiffs

they cant do anything its a civil debt.

no right of entry

they can be ignored if they turn up.

do not call excel ever.

Your other reason for the claim being invalid is that you have no liability under the POFA becasue they dint follow its protocols and so are suing the wrong person.

you dont need any more at the moment,

you will need to get all of the evidence together for the new hearing and that will be a while away.

ok thanks Ericsbrother

Do I tick witness statement, statement of case or evidence set out below box?

Ok so my main hurdle is getting them to agree to a hearing, once I get that I think I should be ok on signage, contract issues

Is there anything I can do to strengthen my reason for not receiving the letters? Do you think this is strong enough? I could add ' I can provide a Drs letter' but I know you advised not to waffle on this?

So adding your suggestion this will be my witness statement or statement of case or evidence set out below:

1Reasons for not receiving letter are I was not at the address and had moved out due to domestic abuse. I did not want to go near the house and I have only been given the court claim form last friday and I immediately called the court.

I was not aware of the ticket as I was not driving the car it was my ex boyfriend.

2.I intend to defend this in full based in the following:

1Excel parking had a lack of authority;

2Lack of planning permission for the signage;

3Signage was confusing on the site and inadequate due to size spacing height etc

4Excel had no liability under the POFA becasue they dint follow its protocols and so are tness statement, statement of case or evidence set out below the wrong person.

5No contractual obligation

Yes it was the same location for Karbot - he says in a post that he put Radcliffe incase excel saw it on the forum.

It was the same location.

Any advice on getting hold of him?

yes

they should see it

they were last active 17th feb

but will get an email alert

of your request

Thanks Dx I'll wait for Karbot to reply fingers crossed.

I guess as long as I have them before the hearing should be ok

X

I'm sorry but I don't expect the you have much of a chance of success. The cost of applying for set-aside would be £155. Once these people have a judgement then it's a pretty difficult business. I think you have do make better arrangements for mail to be sent on to you as you change addresses. I'm sure that you're in a difficult position and this kind of thing doesn't help but I really don't know what else to advise

Just for clarity, the costs for a set aside are £255 for each ccj which you are unlikely to recover.

You may qualify for fee remission if you are on a low income, have less than 3k savings or claim a qualifying benefit such as Income Support, mire information regarding fee remission can be found by reading the guide EX160a from the court website

i wonder if a word in the claimants earhole asking for a set aside by mutual consent might save £510?

an important question- when did you inform the DVLA of the change of address?

Hi thanks for the advice

I thought I would probably recover the set aside fees if I win?

I think I have a strong case as long as I get the set aside hearing

Thanks so much for helping

Hi Ericsbrother I didn't chance my address with the DVLA. I have done now xx

Change

Hi Dx how would I go about this?

Can they agree this? Xx

Hi Ericsbrother

I didn't quite follow this that you wrote earlier

'if you dont update your keeper details and they send out letters to the address the DVLA hold they are doing things properly so all of your pleadings about your woes are worthless.

HOWEVER, as they are obliged to send documents to that address if you lived there when the NTK was issued and moved subsequently

that is a good enough reason to have the CCJ set aside as you can correctly claim that you didnt receive the paperwork.'

Thanks

you have to use the correct argument.

If you put it simply and say that you did not receive the paperwork a set-aside is more likely than admitting that you failed to inform the DVLA of a change of address or that you still have a connection with the address that the papers were served on as they will be deemed served.

For that reason telling the court all about your domestic problems will lose you the set aside request as your vehicle was registered at that address the company is obliged to send documents there.

The failure to update the keeper details wont undo that so the set-aside becomes more likey the less you say about why you didnt receive them.

Do you now have a permanent address that documents can be served on?

If so you use that from now on and Excel and their pet ferret will have to write to you there.

You may think this odd but being dead isnt a reason for not attending court,

someone has to apply to get permission to attend instead,

the claim doesnt just go away even though you cant sue dead people.

Ok I understand what you're saying - less is more!

What do you think to Dx suggestion on contacting excel to see if they can remove ccj's without going to court? M

:-Dk